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Not-Misogyny, Explained at Last

But THIS man clearly LOVES women.

There’s one kind of person you meet again and again in the manosphere: the man who hates women, but insists that he’s not a misogynist. Some of them will even tell you that you calling them a misogynist is equivalent to a white person calling a black person the n-word. And they seem to even believe this.

You may find yourself wondering: how is it that a person who clearly hates women, who says hateful things about them constantly, who spends all his time reading blogs and message boards devoted to the notion that women are evil bitches — how is it that such a person can come to believe that they aren’t a woman-hater?

Well, you’re in luck, because not that long ago one of these fellows gave us a glimpse into the mysterious inner workings of the mind of the misogynist who thinks he’s not a misogynist.

In a post on the Men’s Rights subreddit he titled “Next time someone calls you a misogynist,” cabin5 unpacked all his weird rationalizations and laid them out for everyone to see.

This is long, but worth reading. It’s very revealing. And also sort of hilarious, both in its total lack of awareness and in its garden-variety ignorance and stupidity.

RDmisogyOP

Uh, dude, one part of the definition of “hatred” is “extreme aversion.” Which is also one definition of, you guessed it, repulsion. If you’re repulsedby women — or at least by “the modern, confrontational, American toxic female” — it’s safe to say that yes, indeed, you hate women, or at least the vast majority of the women that you meet on an everyday basis here in the US. Also, if you post in the Men’s Rights subreddit, and regularly use phrases like “the modern, confrontational, American toxic female,” it’s pretty much like having the words “I hate women” tattooed on your forehead.

Elsewhere in the thread he offers further insights into these terrible American “females.”

Western women tend to be butch & mannish- you would have to be practically homosexual to be attracted to one. I’m not homosexual. And they’re like crappy zerox copies of men without any of the positive qualities. …

Possibly the most repulsive things would be their complete unaccountability & the fact that on average, they’re venerally diseased whores who’ve had 57 cocks in them by the age of 25. Would you want your child coming out of that vagina? It’s nauseating.

Dude, I don’t want your child coming out of any vagina. Also, it’s “xerox.”

These are all the thoughts of a grown ass man — who claims to have a daughter over the age of 18 — who honestly thinks he’s somehow not a misogynist.

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scarlettpipistrelle
7 years ago

I had a cat that lived into his mid 20s or so. We didn’t keep great records, but I was living in NJ jstill in college when I got him, and I was living in a specific place in Colorado and I know my age and my kids age when he passed on, and I did the math – he was somewhere between 23 and 25. He was not a kitten when I got him, so it could be at the high end. He was part Russian Blue, very smart, and had a wonderful temperment.

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

Our cat is at least 20 years old. We’re having a hard time remembering exactly when she was born, so we’re guessing based on some photos the kids took of her as a kitten. She’s now completely deaf – can’t hear a lawnmower or a vacuum cleaner when they’re right beside her. That’s her main obvious health issue. The only other issue is that she doesn’t wash herself except her face and her front legs. With a long-haired white cat, this has turned into an unexpected hobby. She gets herself absolutely filthy in the garden. Then I have to use a wet cloth and a comb to clean her up – and short scissors to cut out any burrs that don’t come out so easily.

But she seems perfectly content to spend the night sleeping beside my pillow. Beside? Read that as on the middle of the pillow when the opportunity presents itself – she can create the opportunity quite often. I wake up with just an edge of the pillow under my head which is also nice and warm from the living tea cosy arranged around the top of my head.

scarlettpipistrelle
7 years ago

I too have seen the self-grooming issue with elderly cats. Even the short-haired ones will get all matted and need help.

viola
7 years ago

Hi Peter! Please, explain your theories about dominant men further.

BigMomma
BigMomma
7 years ago

@mildlymagnificent, my brand new kitten, Lola,loves being my tea cosy hat too. But the minute I move she starts licking my eyebrows and chewing my hair. My other,older cat, Molly’s nose is well out of joint and she lurks by the bedroom door.

And these two trolls, yawn.

Amused
7 years ago

@Peter:

Most men aren’t into female domination or female throwing their weight around, though. […] Of course, intellectuals get bullied because they make other people feel stupid and most people don’t like being made to feel stupid.

Yeah, that’s exactly the kind of BS I grew up with. Be intellectual for your own purposes, but around men, pretend to be dumb, because men like dumb. Don’t insult a man by demonstrating in any way, shape or form that you understand something better than he does, except for childbirth and cleaning. Act like a simpering idiot, men like that. Otherwise, no man who is stupider than you will want to marry you, and you’ll die an old maid beside your cats. And what could be worse than that?

*Barf*

Peter
Peter
7 years ago

Thinking conservative women can be brushed aside and ignored led to the defeat of the ERA in America.

Seranvali
Seranvali
7 years ago

Peter:

Then perhaps they should read a book or two so as not to feel stupid and compelled to bully harmless, own-business-minding intellectuals.

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
7 years ago

I’m sorry but sockputting as myself again (I can never remember exact name I chose to use). A colleague at work decided to have a Thanksgiving party for us stray non-Americans, I’m Anglosphere woman but everyone else apart from his USAsian girlfriend was non-Anglosphere male. At some point his neighbour came home, and we invited him to join us. At that point the American neighbour began ranting about how Amercian women always want something and suck. The various nationality men at first politely disagreed before giving up and just letting him rant. I’m not sure there is a point to this story, but it put me off the American guy and I avoided him for rest of evening. I’d imagine non-Anglosphere women would behave the same.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

It never fails to astound me how all of these feminist blogs are pretty much exactly the same. Scroll down to the comments section and it’s a bunch of bitter feminists spouting the same tired shit as always: blah, blah, MISOGYNIST, blah, blah, MALE PRIVILEGE, blah, blah WOMEN HAVE IT SO HARD AND THEY’RE ALWAYS VICTIMS.

Hey, shitlips, did you not see us talking about cats and food and all manner of stuff? I don’t think you did. IF you’re not an asshole, this is probably one of the friendlier comment sections ever.

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

@Jessay, me too actually! I’m not interested in getting into the film industry but I’m a big movie buff so this stuff interests me.

I think his advice would probably be, make your best female characters and the relationships between them absolutely central to the plot and the events in the script. That way they can’t be cut out or re-written without everything falling apart.

MRA’s fetishization of non-western women is down right vomit-inducing. Also I doubt the reality is quite what they like to think. I read an article a little while ago about the fact that it is very common in Japanese marriages for the husband to be the sole earner and the wife a home-maker but for him to turn over his entire salary to her. She will do all the household finances and handle all the money and then give her husband what is essentially “pocket money” for him to use in his social life or whatever. And if he wants any more he has to ask her for it and she is perfectly at liberty to refuse.

Apparently is stems from the habits of the samurai class. Handling money was seen as dishonorable for a male samurai so their wives ran the household finances, paid for food and clothing for the household, his entertaining and generally had control of every aspect of their husbands money. Including the money for his arms and weapons and horses.

I’ve become quite fascinated by Japanese history recently, and while Japanese women were very much second class citizens, Samurai women were just as much Samurai as the men. What’s more they were expected to be highly literate (though they would usually only use the writing style reserved for women), cultured, able to play instruments and write poetry, were often trained in the use of weapons (usually the naginata, think a big fuck-off knife on the end of a long pole) and needed to be numerate.

So yeah not quite as docile and free of personality as MRA’s would like.

timetravellingfool
7 years ago

Is peter just pulling random mra quotes and throwing them in here? What an odd new troll.

@ Peartree- Ugh, we have a ton of American men who were promised the Earth by their parents and expected to have the same open door policy to the top tiers of society as their fathers did. Thank god that isn’t an international sentiment, but I wouldn’t be shocked if every nation that had a feminist movement might find an anti-woman backlash closely followed it. Also, thank god, most dudes aren’t whiny whiners and understand life is hard and it gets harder when you have more people competing.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

their wives ran the household finances, paid for food and clothing for the household, his entertaining and generally had control of every aspect of their husbands money.

This was the case in classical Athens as well: the men made the money, and their wives managed it, as well as managing the household and the slaves (the slaves managed the children, and thus were expected to be educated enough to educate the next generation of Athenians). In fact, the word “economics” comes from the greek oikos, meaning “household” – which means women invented economics, right?

Samurai women were just as much Samurai as the men. What’s more they were expected to be highly literate (though they would usually only use the writing style reserved for women)

Literate enough, in fact, to produce the first modern novel. I’m no expert on Japanese history (I’m accepting book recommendations, though!), but it seems like, if I had to be a woman in that time period, Japan would have been a better place than western Europe. At least in Japan you could get an education.

often trained in the use of weapons (usually the naginata, think a big fuck-off knife on the end of a long pole) and needed to be numerate.

Wasn’t that the home-defense weapon of choice? Hard to think about breaking into anyone’s home when said home contains women armed with bigass knives on poles.

pecunium
7 years ago

if I had to be a woman in that time period, Japan would have been a better place than western Europe. At least in Japan you could get an education.

This is, as usual, a question of time/place/class. Probably the best place to be a non-peasant woman was either The Merovingian, or Anglo-Saxon (ca 800-950) England. To be a non-well to do woman in Japan was to be part of a permanent underclass; and at the bottom levels of that underclass.

Education was probably easiest to come by in England, where it was seen as a more universal goal. Women also had significantly more rights, and were allowed to exercise political power.

And now I have to go to work. I can’t wait until Tues.

pecunium
7 years ago

Sorry, I forgot to clarify, Merovingia was earlier, and in what is now Eastern France/Western Germany. It was followed by the Carolingians (Charlemagne being the third of that line), and broke up into the Germanies, and Proto-France.

timetravellingfool
7 years ago

Ooh, pecunium is like the next level of Wiki!

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Pecunium, you’re right about the class issue. I made the rather common mistake of assuming I wouldn’t be one of the folks on the bottom, despite the sheer statistical reality.

(You’re probably right about the other stuff, too, but most of European history is outside my knowledge base)

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

Another not too bad place to be a non-peasant woman in pre-modern times would have been Byzantium.

They after all produced one of the first works of history that we have written by a woman. Which was the Alexiad, written by one of my personal heroes, Anna Komnena.

They also had a series of ruling Empresses and very powerful royal consorts, Like Empress Theodora, another hero of mine. She started life as an actress, an exotic dancer and possibly a prostitute and became one of the most powerful and influential women in the history of the Eastern Roman Empire.

But obviously these women were not the rule at all, and Anna Komnena was in fact a royal princess, born in the purple.

wolffood
7 years ago

Want to have some fun? Copy some ManSplaining onto Facebook and ask what people think, and you’ll get an EXPLOSION of infuriated men: men whose mothers were beaten by their fathers, but grew up to do everything they can to never pass on this abuse to their wives or daughters. At least one man was broken because his wife was shot through his heart by a GunBilly.

And yes – the ManSplainers and the GunBillies ARE part of the same arc. They claim “guns don’t kill people.” But, since they think children are parasites and women are vampires, they may simply be correct by the definition in their own heads; they continue to try to explain away the dead teachers and children as the fault of anything but selfishness, hate and lead.

Anyplace out of their blogs, with their comments dragged out from under the rocks and displayed under sunlight, these little boys run into truly angry, often grieving men. During this outing process, we might want to point out some sites where GunBillies and ManSplainers can buy some good running shoes.

Amnesia
Amnesia
7 years ago

Most men aren’t into female domination or female throwing their weight around, though


Don’t tell me this isn’t awesome.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

In the ancient world, Egypt was a reasonably good place to be a woman, for the general populace, or at least in the artisan class about whom a bit more is known. They had their own property, they were able to run their own businesses, and they were entitled to a third of the joint property in the case of a divorce. On that subject, Egypt is a great refutation to the idiots who go on as if the conservative Christian notion of marriage is the only one. Egypt was an intensely religious society but marriage was, from what evidence survives, a purely private or business matter, didn’t have ceremonies attached to it and was pretty much a case of the couple setting up house together. They were very focussed – or at least the scribes doing the writing were – on the ideal of the family, but they were also realistic about the fact that yes, sometimes marriages don’t work out.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

I wonder who this “intellectual” is that Peter claims is being bullied? That has a whiff of one of our trolls (who are all SUCH intellectuals) doing a bit of boo-hoo sockpuppeting. Dumbass the Yapper likes to think he’s an intellectual, same as Rustyknickersinatwist.

cherabushka
7 years ago

i leave a video of my cat without comment

Carleyblue
Carleyblue
7 years ago

‘Dumbass the Yapper’…

I’m not quite sure who you are referring to here, but for some reason this made me laugh a lot.

clairedammit
clairedammit
7 years ago

‘Dumbass the Yapper’…

That’s got to be Diogenes the Cynic, right? I’m thinking Rustykickersinatwist is Steele, but I’m not sure.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

It never fails to astound me…

You should probably get that checked out. It may be chronic and acute trollitis.

MKlein
MKlein
7 years ago

@Amnesia – yay, someone else watches that show! 🙂

vibrissimo
7 years ago

@Carleyblue and clairedammit – yup, Diogenes and Steele are correct! You each win a free pass to teh internets.

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
7 years ago

emily

Nay on Athenian women.

They were expected to be demure. Stay at home. Barefoot and pregnant.

Now, compare that to Spartan women, who were allowed to vote, own property and hold office…..

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
7 years ago

The Kitteh

Nope. No sockpuppeting being done on my part. You’re wrong again.

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
7 years ago

@Amused

Reminds me of the joke

“Smart guys go for dumb girls, and dumb guys go for dumb girls.”

“So what do smart girls get?”

“Cats, mostly.”

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Who summoned Diogenes the Dim?

Wow, Diogenes, that was a kneeslapper. Hardeeharhar.

If the choice was cats forever (and I ain’t talkin’ about the musical) or someone like you, cats win every time.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Good one, Dumbass, live up to your name. You do try the “I’m so intellectual” bullshit and so you do come to mind when some other idiot tries it on. You also don’t grasp sarcasm or snark, even though you set yourself up as targets for them every time you come here spouting your garbage.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

And yeah – cats win over morons like you every time. That’s why smart women prefer them.

mxe354
7 years ago

Yo Anonymous,

“Pretty much all the posts I’ve seen here are just one person going ‘WOW MEN ARE PIGS/ASSHOLES/MISOGYNISTS/INSERT PEJORATIVE HERE’ and then a flood of posts agreeing with them.”

If you took more than a minute to check out this blog, you would realize that this blog is purely about mocking and condemning misogynists, most of whom, but not all of whom, are misogynist men in the manosphere. It even says that on the fucking front page:

The point of this blog is to expose misogynists and other terrible people by quoting the hateful things they say.

katz
7 years ago

Hey Diogenes, solved the Voynich Manuscript yet? If it’s taken more than half an hour, I’ll be disappointed.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

And don’t forget, he can’t cross-check anything or look up references, because that would be intellectually dishonest.

katz
7 years ago

And no consulting with Nobel laureates, either!

timetravellingfool
7 years ago

“Smart guys go for dumb girls, and dumb guys go for dumb girls.”

*“So what do smart girls go for?”

“Cats, mostly.”

Fixed it for you (but not ‘go for’ in a gross way).

cc917
cc917
7 years ago

Speaking of pointed hypocrisy…have you seen this tumblr?
http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Sounds like Dumbass is another of those “eww, cats” type of people if he thinks that joke was funny. Or he doesn’t get it that genuinely smart guys (assuming they don’t negate their alleged intelligence by being egotistical, insecure losers) appreciate intelligence in other people.

timetravellingfool
7 years ago

@ Kitteh- Sounds like he’s a shallow jerk who assumes everyone is a shallow jerk.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

@TTF – that pretty much sums him up.

Kakanian
Kakanian
7 years ago

>Literate enough, in fact, to produce the first modern novel. I’m no expert on Japanese history (I’m accepting book recommendations, though!), but it seems like, if I had to be a woman in that time period, Japan would have been a better place than western Europe. At least in Japan you could get an education.

Uh, two things: For one, Murasaki was a court lady, she lived well before the age of the Samurai even dawnea and she was an oddity. Women weren’t supposed to be literate in Chinese. They were supposed to be excluded from high culture.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Nah, Diogenes is just going “well, you may kick my ass intellectually every time I show up here, but men don’t want you, neener neener!”.

It’s especially funny on a blog where so many of the regular non-troll commenters are married.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“If the choice was cats forever (and I ain’t talkin’ about the musical) or someone like you, cats win every time.”

Seconded, assuming I can keep my fish instead of (or in addition to) said cats. This works well enough now, the 55g is just high enough that the cat can barely get her nose up to it, thus being able to watch, but not paw at them (and honestly, idk that she’s bother the clown loaches any, they’d probably try to play with her paw or something, big goofs!)

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Nay on Athenian women.

They were expected to be demure. Stay at home. Barefoot and pregnant.

I won’t deny that Athenian society was grossly misogynistic. Women were for making new Athenians and little else – in fact, Athenian “homosexuality” was very likely rooted in men’s extreme distaste for women. None of which negates what I said, which was that managing the home and its finances were considered women’s work.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Uh, two things: For one, Murasaki was a court lady, she lived well before the age of the Samurai even dawnea and she was an oddity. Women weren’t supposed to be literate in Chinese. They were supposed to be excluded from high culture.

Welp, I’mma just remove my foot from my mouth and bow out of the discussion re: Japanese history, since I clearly don’t know as much as I thought I did. Sorry.

stillivefallen
7 years ago

You know, I love how the MRA berates feminism for wanting equality but only focusing on one sex, yet they have such a thing called the MRA.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

In a rather delicious irony, one of the reasons that The Tale of Genji has survived and been so popular is that it was written in Japanese, because women weren’t supposed to learn Chinese. It’s one of the most amusing examples of societal sexism backfiring, imo.