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Not-Misogyny, Explained at Last

But THIS man clearly LOVES women.

There’s one kind of person you meet again and again in the manosphere: the man who hates women, but insists that he’s not a misogynist. Some of them will even tell you that you calling them a misogynist is equivalent to a white person calling a black person the n-word. And they seem to even believe this.

You may find yourself wondering: how is it that a person who clearly hates women, who says hateful things about them constantly, who spends all his time reading blogs and message boards devoted to the notion that women are evil bitches — how is it that such a person can come to believe that they aren’t a woman-hater?

Well, you’re in luck, because not that long ago one of these fellows gave us a glimpse into the mysterious inner workings of the mind of the misogynist who thinks he’s not a misogynist.

In a post on the Men’s Rights subreddit he titled “Next time someone calls you a misogynist,” cabin5 unpacked all his weird rationalizations and laid them out for everyone to see.

This is long, but worth reading. It’s very revealing. And also sort of hilarious, both in its total lack of awareness and in its garden-variety ignorance and stupidity.

RDmisogyOP

Uh, dude, one part of the definition of “hatred” is “extreme aversion.” Which is also one definition of, you guessed it, repulsion. If you’re repulsedby women — or at least by “the modern, confrontational, American toxic female” — it’s safe to say that yes, indeed, you hate women, or at least the vast majority of the women that you meet on an everyday basis here in the US. Also, if you post in the Men’s Rights subreddit, and regularly use phrases like “the modern, confrontational, American toxic female,” it’s pretty much like having the words “I hate women” tattooed on your forehead.

Elsewhere in the thread he offers further insights into these terrible American “females.”

Western women tend to be butch & mannish- you would have to be practically homosexual to be attracted to one. I’m not homosexual. And they’re like crappy zerox copies of men without any of the positive qualities. …

Possibly the most repulsive things would be their complete unaccountability & the fact that on average, they’re venerally diseased whores who’ve had 57 cocks in them by the age of 25. Would you want your child coming out of that vagina? It’s nauseating.

Dude, I don’t want your child coming out of any vagina. Also, it’s “xerox.”

These are all the thoughts of a grown ass man — who claims to have a daughter over the age of 18 — who honestly thinks he’s somehow not a misogynist.

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ShakaKhan
7 years ago

The less English they speak the better, am I right, guys? Right? Just chatter on, pretty Consuela! Salsa mexicana tostatada!

But no, I’m sure he means that he’s learning or knows Spanish himself and he wants to show his ‘Latino’ friend how much he likes and respects her and wants her to feel completely comfortable expressing herself in her native tongue, so as not to be underestimated or misunderstood in broken English.

There’s just so much love for half of humanity in his writing. It’s bringing tears to my eyes.

Rygirl
Rygirl
7 years ago

I’m repulsed by people who kill kittens for fun but I don’t hate them….totally different.

Karalora
7 years ago

I wish someone would explain what it is American/Western women supposedly do (and non-American/non-Western women don’t do) that makes them (us?) so “butch” and “mannish.” I personally am rather unfeminine, but when I’m out and about, most of the women I see are wearing makeup and jewelry and have carefully styled hair.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
7 years ago

Heh. He loves Latina women. Oh Cabin5, let’s go out. I’m sure you’ll love my spicy-yet-submissive Latina charms.

*hurk*

blitzgal
7 years ago

the less English they speak, the better

Dude, you fucking HATE women. And not just American women. ALL WOMEN. You want a “partner” (and that’s so not the word to use in this instance) who is literally unable to verbally communicate with you. YOU HATE WOMEN.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
7 years ago

I would seriously like to know what they consider to be misogynistic. They always say “Not all of us are misogynists!” but then can’t even name anyone they think is misogynistic. Because apparently even Paul “Rape Victims Deserve It” Elam doesn’t count

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
7 years ago

Also, notice that one sentence where he uses the words “men” and then “females” in the same breath.

laisa
laisa
7 years ago

But… We Latin American women are American, too!
(It’s not the point, I know, but I hust hate when people refer to the US as America.)

viola
7 years ago

Crumbelievable: Of course it’s not misogyny to say women deserve to be raped. Sex is what they’re for. If they don’t understand that, then it’s practically a public service to show them how little their consent matters. Everyone will be happier for it in the long run.

I really do think that a lot of misogynists think like that. They have such contempt for anyone unlike them that they don’t really think we deserve rights at all. And that’s how they can claim not to hate us: they can imagine something that looks like a woman that they don’t hate, and they think that counts. What they hate is our personhood.

laisa
laisa
7 years ago

just*

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

This whole thing leaves me speechless…

On a completely different subject, my uncle is a screenwriter and I was talking to him today about what he writes and I asked him whether his scripts pass the Bechdel test at all.

He said that his usually do and that me makes an effort to write interesting female characters who are important to the plot. However what frequently happens is that once his scripts pass out of his hands they are often changed and edited by producers and directors and all to often they end up not passing the test after they’ve been tinkered with.

Which is rather depressing if you think about it. Makes you wonder how many films and TV series have had scenes and dialogue just between women removed and had good well rounded female characters watered down.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

Paul Elam doesn’t hate women! He just thinks that narcissistic bi***es who get drinks from men and yet refuse to consent to sex are begging to be raped. How is that misogynistic?

But srsly, it’s always fun watching misogynists try to wriggle and squirm their way out of the charge. The view from the inside is something truly strange and glorious to behold.

Refreshingly, the post doesn’t have many upvotes, and the top comment thread on the post is someone cross-examining cabin5’s views, with cabin5’s posts receiving oodles of downvotes. Of course, the few times I’ve actually tried to call out misogyny on r/mensrights, I’ve met with little success and a lot of pushback, so it’s not exactly becoming a feminist haven any time soon.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
7 years ago

@laisa

When my grandmother was a young woman, she and a girlfriend wanted to go to a party at a US naval base, which was “American only”. At the gate, the guard asked if they were American, and she said yes, and he waved them through. After they were a good distance away, they turned around and yelled back “SOUTH AMERICAN!”.

laisa
laisa
7 years ago
Reply to  Nepenthe

@Nepenthe Your grandmother is my new hero! 😀

Some Gal Not Bored At All
Some Gal Not Bored At All
7 years ago

@Historophilia

If it makes you feel any better, Johanna Blakley has a TED Talk, “Social Media and the End of Gender,” in which she claims that the since social media challenges demographics as a system for categorizing and “understanding” (laugh) audiences, that might change.

I think she is a little blind to the amount of misogyny that goes into these decisions and how very long that may take to change, but any hope is nice, right?

(If you have Netflix Instant and want to check it out, it is #14 in “For All of Womankind”. Barf to the title of that IMO.)

Guy Noir
Guy Noir
7 years ago

Latina woman, white guy, best song:

jennydevildoll
7 years ago

“LatinO women?” Masculine? I don’t know if he means what I’m picturing right now.

Some Gal Not Bored At All
Some Gal Not Bored At All
7 years ago

Ending a word with a feminine a is misandry.

Tam
Tam
7 years ago

they[’ve]… had 57 cocks in them by the age of 25.

Dude, you would not believe how many hands they’ve shaken by age 25, either, and do you know where those other hands have been? Would you want those skank hands holding your infant manchild?

Karalora
7 years ago

Hang on, let’s do some math here.

57 cocks in them by the age of 25

If she waited until she turned 18 to start having sex, then that 57 different sex partners in 7 years, or roughly 8 per year. That’s less than one per month. I’m sure if you told these guys they had to wait six weeks before banging a new woman, they would consider that horrible misandry.

freitag235
freitag235
7 years ago

…on average, they’re venerally diseased whores who’ve had 57 cocks in them by the age of 25.

I wonder what scientific method he used to come up with such a precise number? 57 cocks, and none of them his. Really, that’s the problem, amirite?

Asshole.

And, by the by, if you’ve had more than one vagina, does that make you a venerally [sic] diseased whore as well?

Hypocritical asshole.

We survived the apocalypse, I see. Well done, Doctor! You saved the Earth once again.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
7 years ago

It’s very simple: unless you’re prepared to sign off on the statement “I hate women” then you don’t hate women. You may display every sign of hating women, but until you publicly agree to those three words you just aren’t a misogynist.

Those are the rules, just accept it.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

And, by the by, if you’ve had more than one vagina, does that make you a venerally [sic] diseased whore as well?

It’s not a typo. Cabin5 was referring to the diseases brought back by the Soviet Venera probes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera

Stupid sexy cosmonauts!

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

Well, clearly – if it quacks like a duck, moves like a duck, looks like a duck, displays behavior patterns associated with Anatidae, tests positive on DNA tests in relation to genetic composition for duckiness… Well, gentlemen and gentleladies and gentleothers, it’s clearly a potato.

Yep. Unless it specifically tells you: “I am a duck”, it isn’t. Because that’s how these things work.

Just like any woman who, unless she specifically says so (ie: “I am a slut”), is clearly not a slut. And no MRA would ever claim she was.
Right? Right.
Merry Christmas!

Carleyblue
Carleyblue
7 years ago

I think there is a difference between hate and entitlement, to a certain degree. Person of group A (in this case, men) thinks all people of group B (in this case, women) should be a certain way, and when they don’t behave in this way, they must be defective- a deviation from the norm. So something must have made them this way. It must be feminism, right? So he blames that. I think guys like this really truly believe that women are naturally obedient and would admit their inferiority if it weren’t for that pesky modern equality business. Of course, for all intents and purposes, the results of hate and entitlement are the same. And then there are all the weird sexual issues mixed in there as well.

I also am confused about how American women specifically are the worst again. The only women I have ever met who believed very strongly in deferring to men were American. I have never met a European or South American woman who believed that as strongly. But of course, my experience is limited.

This topic always really bothers me for some reason. I think someone needs to post an animal video!

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Carleyblue – like you said, it is effectively hatred whether he admits it or not, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that he hates women. Wanting women silenced (what else can one read into the “Latina who doesn’t speak English” statement?), wanting women obedient and submissive and tied to one man for as long as he wants, insisting that there is only one acceptable way for women to behave or look – this is “othering” women, denying their humanity. He’s talking as if women are objects, things who have no rights or lives at all but exist to serve and please men. And as David pointed out, he talks about repulsion and extreme aversion, and that is hatred.

Carleyblue
Carleyblue
7 years ago

The Kitteh’s Unpaid Help- Yeah, right after I posted the comment I re-read the part about him not wanting the Latina women to speak English, and thought yeah, he’s coming from a place of emotion and rage, not just indifferent entitlement.Thinking of other human beings in that way is so wrong one way or another, though. because they are human beings, not objects, as you say.

I just looked through my writing and I’m suddenly and irrationally worried that I’m starting to sound like Steele in terms of writing style. God help me…

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

LOL don’t worry, you don’t sound like Steele! You’d need to throw in lots of “certainly; and without a doubt” type redundancies, a plethora* of semicolons, heaps of “viles” (or “vyles”) and froth about misandry.

*That’s two $10 words in two days, I’m doing well.

themisanthropicmuse
7 years ago

Another of Cabin5’s biggest issues is white women aren’t pumping out enough white babies. “For the first time in human history we have a population of millions of women not having children. That is simply not how humans behave – it’s perverse. Women just doing ‘whatever they want’ means we’re already on our way to extinction, well whites in the U.S. are far below replacement birth levels and have been for 20 years- Europe & the U.K. as well.”

So someone should tell him, he’s not just a woman hater but a racist arsehat too.

oh and look at this lovely quote:
“Traditional roles for men are horrendous when the other half of the population is simply parasitical and we are the host. ” Women are all parasites but you don’t hate women. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Pfft, right, we’re the parasites, no suggestion there that “traditional roles” (my, how little he knows about human history) might have sucked majorly for women even more than for men.

Like you said, racist asshat – seven billion and counting but “we” are facing extinction?

fantysq
7 years ago

Ugh, that stuff about Eastern European women irritates the hell out of me. I’m an Eastern European woman and I’m quite definitely a feminist.

Kaitlyn
Kaitlyn
7 years ago

misogynists and their desperate attempts at shirking responsibility for their behavior make me sick. but it also makes me laugh. their transparency is nothing short of hilarious. how stupid do they think we all are? just lol.

Socially Extinct
7 years ago

Uh, dude, one part of the definition of “hatred” is “extreme aversion.” Which is also one definition of, you guessed it, repulsion. If you’re repulsedby women — or at least by “the modern, confrontational, American toxic female” — it’s safe to say that yes, indeed, you hate women, or at least the vast majority of the women that you meet on an everyday basis here in the US.

Wow, extrapolating this chain-link, faux argument, I can only conclude that not only do you love women, you sanctify them. That is as harmful an effect as demonizing them. Oh, you are an extremist.

There, I practiced female logic on manbooz hahaha!

Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

““Traditional roles for men are horrendous when the other half of the population is simply parasitical and we are the host. ”

I don’t get it. He seems to resent the traditional role of sole breadwinner. Then why doesn’t he like feminism? Or, why doesn’t he like non-traditional women? If you insist on us not having jobs, not being independant and never speaking out, then it seems you should be more open to the idea that you’ll be spending all the money in the relationship. I mean, that’s what they want, isn’t it? Control? All women will have to go back to relationships and marriage just not to starve. And by god, they’ll be less picky. But then they whine about all the burden this places on them in the same breath.

Their “logic” just sort of collapses in on itself. It’s exhausting as shit.

Ahem, happy holidays everyone…:)

Carleyblue
Carleyblue
7 years ago

@Shiraz

I think what he and other guys like him have in mind is an arrangement in which the men are the breadwinners, yes, but in return the women are trained/ brought up to devote their lives to serving their husbands in every way imaginable. This is the only arrangement which is ‘fair’ to them. If you read Christian manosphere blogs they go into this a lot. It is not enough for the women/wives to simply be obedient (and not work), they have to work on devoting themselves to their husbands constantly, otherwise they are just parasites (which most modern housewives are, they argue). It is very much based on their understanding of Christianity and doesn’t have all that much to do with tradition, in my opinion. They think most traditional arrangements were unfair to men. It’s mind-boggling. I mean, I don’t even know if this guy’s a Christian, but that’s where a lot of them are coming from.

I don’t know, I can’t make sense of the logic either. Trying to think about it too much (as i have, ugh) just makes my head hurt.

Oh, and I would like to wish everyone here a very happy holiday season too! You people are great!

freitag235
freitag235
7 years ago

Crap. here’s yet another fat baby bulldog, for anyone needing a bit of brain bleach. You have to watch it audio though, because the vocalizations are fun.

Falconer
7 years ago

how many noises can one bebe make?!

freitag235
freitag235
7 years ago

*with* audio. Got an early start on the eggnog.

oolon
7 years ago

Interesting that his behaviour and attitude fits even the old definition of misogyny let alone the newer somewhat more useful and descriptive version, Julia Gillard’s for example.

I take it the manosphere is probably not all that enamoured of Julia or her attempts to redefine a definition that they already managed to fit before it is watered down! This confuses me as I was of the opinion that there are so few people that actually fit the ‘hate all women’ definition that it is useless and thought the re-definition as an entrenched dislike and prejudice towards women was a good thing. But then that begs the question of what makes a good description of this bloke’s bigotry as the new definition of misogyny doesn’t quite do him justice…

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
7 years ago

Uh, themisanthropicmuse, don’t be alarmed but… *stage whisper* you seem to have turned into a human!

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

Shorter Socially Extinct: You want to see misogyny? OK, here’s some misogyny!

Ice
Ice
7 years ago

I am seriously trying to figure out where this Eastern European woman stereotype came from. Up until recently, we were the big, fat, butch manboobz that got shit done, lived six families a flat and waited whole day in line for a loaf of bread and some chicken.

I blame Hostel. And the MRAs’ attention span that caused this weird selective memory of it.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Ice, these jagoffs must not have lived through the Cold War. They don’t remember when the USSR was the big Evil, and all the women were ugly. Ah, propaganda.

This guy in the OP is in no danger of being Cock #1-58 for any woman, American or otherwise.

scarlettpipistrelle
7 years ago

That puppy is so cute, all the problems in my life have vaporized just from viewing this video. Thank you for posting this.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

I blame the tendency of materially privileged men in certain cultures to view women without the same resources as exploitable because of that disparity.

Misogyny? What misogyny?

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Then again, if the OP is old enough to have an 18 year old daughter (my sympathies to her on her prize pig father), he’s just an asshole.

Amused
7 years ago

@Ice: Don’t forget also, our grandmothers and great-grandmothers entered the work force in record numbers decades before American women and housewifery was virtually unknown for several generations before about the 1990’s.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Oh, the cuteness! Who knew that bulldog puppies could trill?

Good news on the kitteh front: our vet just rang and Fribbie’s blood results are all normal. 🙂

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

I am seriously trying to figure out where this Eastern European woman stereotype came from. Up until recently, we were the big, fat, butch manboobz that got shit done, lived six families a flat and waited whole day in line for a loaf of bread and some chicken.

I blame Hostel. And the MRAs’ attention span that caused this weird selective memory of it.

I wonder if it has something to do with the upswing in prostitution and sex trafficking in that part of the world. :-/

Emmy
Emmy
7 years ago

Reading stuff like this used to confuse me so much; taken at face value, these rants are completely illogical. None of it makes sense until you account for just how misogynistic these people actually are.

For example, in this case the fact that they are being misogynists by definition isn’t what matters to them; women are regarded as being less than human (human=men in this context), so it isn’t that they don’t think they are treating women in a degrading and dehumanizing way, it’s that they don’t believe the rights and well-being of women deserve consideration.

The whole Western women vs Foreign women is hilarious (as well as being messed up). They don’t regard women as being 3 dimensional beings, so any woman living independently and confidently makes them deeply uncomfortable and threatened. They are looking for silent, 2 dimensional, functional but decorative women to effectively own, and since they have become disillusioned about the women they see everyday they seek comfort in exoticism and colonialism (where male privilege fails perhaps white privilege will prevail?).

So young, vulnerable, uneducated, non-English speaking women they know nothing about seem perfect, and the mail order bride business is flourishing. Christ, it’s such a toxic practice; so many people have their lives ruined.

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