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Men’s Rights Redditors teach “darkbros, homobros and transbros” a few things about inclusiveness.

Inclusive as hell!
Inclusive as hell!

So the other day someone went to the Men’s Rights subreddit with some concerns about the movement’s inclusiveness – or, rather, its lack thereof. “I’d be a lot more inclined to follow this movement,” this person wrote,

 if it was more inclusive of the issues of other men, such as those of colour, homosexuality and those who identify as males. But as it stands even when you quote prison statistics as a form of sexism, you flat out ignore the ethnic make up of those statistics and the last time I saw y’all chatting about queer rights? I can’t actually remember, it’s been even longer since something along those lines came on the front page.

Naturally, the fine folks of the subreddit responded with a big “nuh-uh!”

Some suggested that the Men’s Rights movement is already quite inclusive enough, thank you very much. A few offered the existence of GirlWritesWhat, an actual female lady woman MRA, as proof of inclusiveness. I’m not quite sure how that has to do with race or LBGT issues, but hey: The MRM has a lady! (More than one, actually.)

Our dear old friend AnnArchist, who despite the name is not a lady, and who may or may not still be a mod (see below), helpfully explained:

MRannarchongay

Huh. I remember that month, too. Lots of Men’s Rightsers were angry about being associated with anything gay, and a lot of LGBT folks were angry about being associated with the Men’s Rights subreddit. I also recall that time when Kloo2yoo, the founder of the subreddit, attempted to make a token effort to be LGBT-inclusive. Oh, and the time a Men’s Rights redditor talked about how he would violently assault any trans woman who “tricked” him into having sex. Oh yeah: that Men’s Rights Redditor was a fellow called AnnArchist.

Others pointed out that they personally weren’t bigots or anything. Tyciol put it this way:

I wasn’t aware that darkbros, homobros and transbros were being discriminated against as policy. The free speech policy does inevitably end up with some closeminded folk being hostile of them, but I don’t think this means the movement is not inclusive. To be non-inclusive would there not have to be active exclusion?

I happen to think [wrestler] David Ortunga is a sexy black man who I would like to rub oil onto, and I respect the maleness of Larson Degado. Yet I’m not banned so… hm.

So if you’re not black, and you fantasize about rubbing oil on a black dude, that makes you a paragon of post-racial “inclusivity?” Apparently.

Other Men’s Rights Redditors want to be post-racial by not talking about race at all, suggesting that what the OP called inclusiveness could end up splitting the Men’s Rights movement in two, or three or four:

MRsplitting

The trouble — well, one of many troubles — with this complaint is that there … really aren’t any significant numbers of black MRAs to speak of. When the Men’s Rights subreddit conducted its own demographic survey – alas, I’ve lost the link to it – there was, I believe, literally only one black MRA who stood up to be counted.

Lurker_lenore, meanwhile, suggested that focusing on anything other than men, indivisible was just plain wrong:

MRlenore

But if “age, race, sexual preference, and/or gender identity” somehow don’t affect the issue of equality, why would you assume that gender would? Shouldn’t we just be fighting for People Rights? Or, if that is too-species specific, why not Primate Rights, or Animal Rights, or Carbon-Based Lifeform Rights?

The best comments in the thread – by which I mean the most transcendently loopy — all come from Tyciol, whom we’ve met already, who raised a whole bunch of issues that no one dared to. Mainly becuase these issues were stupid.

For example, this one, touching on the terrifying topic of spermburgling.

I am interested in issues where transmen’s rights overlap with cismen’s rights. I’m not entirely clear on it, TBH. They’re our bros from another chromosone and all that, but I guess a lot of the issues just don’t currently apply, like procreation-related rights, probably less of a concern, since transmen (FtMs) don’t produce semen which can be misused, stuff like that.

And this even weirder followup:

I think FtMs are awesome and stuff but well… in terms of men’s rights… is it that, or is it male rights? I would like to identify some of the struggles we’d actually have in common. I’m all for standin’ up for’m since it’s the right thing and stuff but like… if it comes up in a dispute that they’re XX, doesn’t this usually sway to get them superior female-status consideration even if they detest that?

And all of these:

MRtyciolbig

Tyciol seems to have a lot of questions, and a lot of opinions, about LGBT issues. And a deep love for language – in particular, the word “bros.” Here, in a different thread, we see the two interests combined in one intriguing comment:

MRtycioldykes

In other words, the attitude of the Men’s Rights subreddit towards LGBT folks seems to be summed up pretty well by this parody poster prepared by Man Boobz Art Brigade solider Myoo, originally intended  as a parody of the attitudes expressed over on A Voice for Men.

intersectionality

You can find approximately a gazillion million more parody posters over on the always entertaining Artistry for Feminism and Kittens blog.

(Oh, and on the bit about AnnArchist possibly being a mod: He used to be one, but a few months ago the mods all got new anonymous handles, and because of that I can’t say for sure if he’s still one.)

 

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Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

So a kilt is acceptable male dress, while a skirt is not, because a kilt is a very specific sort of skirt? Is it okay if I just go with “because some people are assholes about gender roles”?

Hell, are utili-kilts actually kilts then?

AH! Ok, my mac and iPad just both chimed at once about email…I may have to edit notifications, or pick an apple device, or something. I really do not need to be jumping when things chime on both sides of me!

pecunium
7 years ago

Ah… this isn’t about what they are, but what they are “called”.

Utili-kilts are, “modern kilts”. They wear a bit lower, but they are made to measure (which is why I would have to pay extra, I am smaller than they make pret a porter).

Your brother (I assume) is saying kilts aren’t skirts?

He’s wrong.

They are. They just happen to be a style of skirt people don’t get (too) upset at men wearing.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“He’s wrong.” — That’s a neigh on universal trait of certain members of my family, he’s mildly better at admitting it than my father, but it really isn’t worth the argument. But yes, that’s basically the summary of it. And just how tiny are you?! My apparently too busy to speak to me FWB has one, and we can swap clothing…

Perhaps we should take this to email though, since it’s gotten very off topic, and is probably fuel for ABNOY the Adorable

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

My husband keeps wanting to buy one of those utilikilts, though I doubt he would ever wear it. (The odds of me wearing it are even lower.)

Also, are there any people who refer to gays as ‘homosexuals’ without being a dick about it after 1990? It seems very strange to add those extra syllables and NOT be trying to make it sound porny.

pecunium
7 years ago

I do. Context is important.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

I’m not wild about using “homosexual” or any of the other -sexuals as nouns. I prefer to say “homosexual PERSON” ie. use it as an adjective. Mostly these days I say LGBT people, it’s more inclusive anyway.

Abnoy
Abnoy
7 years ago

“Abnoy: I take it you’ve never experienced a life of being “tolerated” while considered “abnormal”.”

Last reply on this topic: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/abnoy. Oh, I know all about that, all right (and that’s all I’ll say, any more is TMI)…

pecunium
7 years ago

Abnoy: so you know all about it, and still think it ok to do to other people.

Pathetic.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Wait…explaining why he’s called abnormal is TMI, but telling us he’d be honored to be sperm jacked isn’t?

Yet again I do understand ABNOY >.<

Jennie
Jennie
7 years ago

I am not surprised that mra’s are racist and homophobic. Many, many gay men loathe women deep down, and I’m sure many of them would love to be an mra. As far as black men go-they definitely would love to join because it is apparent how much they hate their own women. Look @ rap music-it always spews hatred at black women, and women in general. Black women are too smart to support black men, and the ones that do are in serious trouble. Hey-Asian-Pakistani-Muslim-African-Indian men should join too because they truly hate women, unapologetically. I am glad I am hip to what is going on with these stupid and ignorant mra’s and am sooo happy I am not open to “dating” men. I’d be dating the enemy for sure!

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

Dear Jennie,

Kindly go and have an acid enema.

Who the hell are you to say that gay men hate women,I have never met a single one who did. Gay men,in my experience are far more likely to treat women like people, to have female friends and to understand the issues that women face then straight men are.

And if you actually bothered to read this blog properly you would know that most MRA’s appear to want to have sex with women. And about 90% of what they talk about is how terribly unfair it is that women won’t have sex with them. Even the MTOW’s seem mostly to be straight. They aren’t giving up having sex with women and sleeping with men instead they claim that they are in favor of celibacy.

Also shut the fuck up with the racism.

You are clearly a troll.

Fuck off.

Yours Sincerely,

Fuck You.

Some Gal Not Bored at All
Some Gal Not Bored at All
7 years ago

Jennie reminds me of Ruby for some reason.

Probably the teeny bit of sense (sentence one) that is so obvious it doesn’t need saying and then a bunch of racist (and homophobic, but idk if Ruby is) bullshit.

Seconding the STFU.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Jennie, congrats on being a racist assbag. Now fuck off.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Hmmmm, I wonder if Jennie is Pell?

completelylostforwords

Umm… that’s why you join an LGBT forum or an ethnic people’s forum… I don’t understand why someone would judge a men’s rights site for not talking about gay rights issues or ethnic issues. What the hell? Obvious rebuttal, sorry, you asked for it. “Inclusive”? They are “including” ALL MEN. Focusing on men of certain races would be what’s *ex*clusive. Now, you can accuse a site of not being inclusive if they moan about gay men or ethnic men being there, or even dare to kick them out.

As for manboobz’ attitude towards men’s rights in general… sorry, but shaming absolutely everyone that supports men’s rights (I guess that would be called a men’s rights activisits) as being misogynists or having X-view_that SO isn’t required to support men’s rights_here..
well, that’s sexist and anti-equal rights.

Being against *anyone* just for wanting to solve social issues… I mock such a thing.

KL
KL
5 years ago

Why would any FTM person who has suffered through the discrimination of girlhood turn against women?! Then again, why would ANYONE…

KL
KL
5 years ago

Abnoy – Tvey said that when disowning his daughter for marrying a Christian, and he later realizes that he was wrong. You are just as wrong.