It’s always a little distressing to see manosphere-style dumbassery outside the manosphere. Today’s offender: Charlotte Allen at National Review Online, explaining how the deaths in Newtown are the result of the school’s “feminized setting.” Had the school been filled with manly men (and manly boys), Adam Lanza could have been stopped in his tracks!
No, really, that’s what she says. Except that what she wrote is somehow even more egregious than my sarcastic summary. Read for yourself:
There was not a single adult male on the school premises when the shooting occurred. In this school of 450 students, a sizeable number of whom were undoubtedly 11- and 12-year-old boys (it was a K–6 school), all the personnel — the teachers, the principal, the assistant principal, the school psychologist, the “reading specialist” — were female. There didn’t even seem to be a male janitor to heave his bucket at Adam Lanza’s knees.
As everyone knows, janitors with buckets can easily overwhelm adult males firing semiautomatic rifles. That’s why most armies in the world have given up guns, are stocking up on buckets, and have started massive recruiting drives aimed at janitors.
(In fact, there was a male custodian on duty, who (according to one witness) warned students and teachers of the gunman, probably saving lives in the process. It does not appear that any buckets were thrown.)
Oh, Allen gives the women at the school some grudging credit for confronting Lanza and saving lives.
The principal, Dawn Hochsprung, seemed to have performed bravely. According to reports, she activated the school’s public-address system and also lunged at Lanza, before he shot her to death. Some of the teachers managed to save all or some of their charges by rushing them into closets or bathrooms.
But they were ladies, and ladies just aren’t made to be heroes.
[I]n general, a feminized setting is a setting in which helpless passivity is the norm. Male aggression can be a good thing, as in protecting the weak — but it has been forced out of the culture of elementary schools and the education schools that train their personnel. Think of what Sandy Hook might have been like if a couple of male teachers who had played high-school football, or even some of the huskier 12-year-old boys, had converged on Lanza.
I’m pretty sure that if this had happened they would have been gunned down, and there would be a couple of former high school football stars and “some of the huskier 12-year-old boys” added to the list of victims. Not even the “huskiest” 12-year-old is any match for a man with a semiautomatic rifle. [EDITED TO ADD: Also, if there were any 12-year-olds on the scene they would have had to have have flunked several years, as the school only goes up to the fourth grade, as several commenters here have pointed out.]
People, even unarmed people, need to fight back against criminals — because usually, no one else will. It took the police 20 minutes to arrive at Sandy Hook.
According to this timeline, a police SWAT team was there ten minutes after the shooting started.
By the time they got there, it was over. Cops and everybody else encourage civilians not to try to defend themselves when they are criminally assaulted. This is stupid advice. There are things you can do. Run is one of them, because most shooters can’t hit a moving target. The other, if you are in a confined space, is throw things at the killer, or try a tackle.
Many students, with the help of teachers, saved themselves by hiding. Some of the students in one classroom tried to run, and were gunned down. Their classmates who stayed hidden survived.
Remember United Flight 93 on 9/11. It was a “flight of heroes” because a bunch of guys on that plane did what they could with what they had. They probably prevented the destruction of the White House or the Capitol.
The hijackers weren’t carrying semiautomatic rifles. And the heroes literally had nothing to lose by attacking them.
Parents of sick children need to be realistic about them. I know at least two sets of fine and devoted parents who have had the misfortune to raise sons who were troubled for genetic reasons beyond anyone’s control. Either of those boys could have been an Adam Lanza. You simply can’t give a non-working, non-school-enrolled 20-year-old man free range of your home, much less your cache of weapons. You have to set boundaries. You have to say, “You can’t live here anymore — you’re an adult, and it’s time for you to be a man. We’ll give you all the support you need, but we won’t be enablers.” Unfortunately, the idea of being an “adult” and a “man” once one has reached physical maturity seems to have faded out of our coddling culture.
Really? Very few mass killers have lived at home with their mothers, but somehow being “adult” and “men” didn’t stop them from killing. It’s good that Allen, without actually knowing any of the details of Adam Lanza’s apparent “sickness” (because at this point none of us do) is able to tell us what would have been best for him.
Appalling.
Diogenes: You don’t have answers. You have a dream.
That’s nice dear.
Hippo, how come these things tend to not happen in Yemen, Israel, or Switzerland?
pecunium
Ok, so we don’t want mass murders.
Now what? How do we do this according to you?
Diogenes: Ignore the argument
Attack the speaker
What argument?
But you MO is just leave when losing (see the Register Her thread for the most recent example) and pretend as if everything is new when you make a non-argument in a new thread.
Grow up.
THERE’S NO SPANKING IN YEMEN, DUMMIEZ — THAT’S WHY!
Dio: Gooby, pls. Staaahp.
HE’S STILL DIGGING HIS HOLE. CAN’T HE TAKE A HINT? SOMEONE GET A CLUEBAT WE HAVE A SITUATION!
(But seriously, Dio; what you said was ableist and hitting kids is not the only factor that manufactures sociopathy. Please check your privilege, I’m asking you to do so as a non-neurotypical person.)
Also, why is the media trying to pin the blame on Asperger’s as the driving factor for the murders? Oh yeah, because all aspies are scum./Sacrasm.
Diogenes: I’m waiting for your plan.
You are the one positing that we can “make everyone so happy they no one is ever violent”.
So tell me, how is this fantasy to come into being?
Because me, I’m a cynic. I figure that some people will always be violent, the trick is to minimize the damage.
You can stop projecting now, kid. I don’t want or expect easy answers because there are none. In every society there are some people who are very disturbed, and sometimes those people do terrible things. Some societies create more of those people than others, and the reasons for that are a lot more complex than whether or not kids are spanked (and there are countries where kids are more likely to be spanked that have less of this kind of acting out). In the case of the US, I strongly suspect that the national love affair with guns is part of the social stew that creates so many people who act out in violent ways, and that curbing that is part of the solution. Which isn’t going to happen as long as idiots like you keep trying to avoid the issue.
Yay, more stupidity. We don’t really know enough about this guy yet to be sure what was going on with him, but in every society there are some people who others don’t want to be close to because they’re just not very nice people, or because they scare others. The fact that those people tend not to have many friends is not a societal failure. If you think it is you’re welcome to go find the scariest, most inclined towards violence person you can and ask them to be your buddy.
I think society should address the reasons why someone can grow up to become a spree killer. In my opinion thats a higher goal than taking away access to tools to be one.
Look at Tim Mcveigh for example. Killed 168 people with fertilizer. Its not the tools, its the urge thats gotta be fixed.
I think society should address the reasons why someone can grow up to become a spree killer. In my opinion thats a higher goal than taking away access to tools to be one.
That’s a non answer.
BTW, and this is way more important than what DtC is babbling about, if anyone here wants one of these fabulous kitty avatars the instructions are here:
http://manboobz.forummotion.com/t1086-kitty-avatar
(I keep mistaking CatBeast with DtC because GREEN, and I’m just thinking maybe someone named CatBeast might prefer to be a kitty.)
Okay, gotta run and make dinner. Have fun with the troll!
Seriously. It’s not only a non-answer, it’s stupid.
I’ll bet you have no idea what the most horrific event like this one was, nor when it happened, nor what the weapon was.
Sorry one more:
Yeah, it was a little more complicated than that. He wasn’t smothering people in Scotts Super Turf Builder.
About the Aspergers: given (a) the sheer number of shooters we’ve had lately and (b) how common Aspergers is amount the population that is going on these shooting sprees (young, usually white, men), it is just good odds that one of the shooters would have ASD.
After all, this was just three days after a man walked into the Macy’s at a suburban Portland mall and killed two people, and a teenage girl into the hospital for days.
But it’s an answer that neatly relieves him of any obligation to actually do anything about the problem.
CatBeast
If you wanted to create a child that would grow up to be violent, how would you do it?
A chaotic childhood, lots of beatings, verbal abuse, etc. Not saying that everyone who grows up in that sort of environment will become violent, but that kind of environment tends to create people capable of doing horrible things.
Also, from the perspective of someone who actually studied psychology, I have to point out that being an Aspie is not the same thing as being a sociopath. And this doesn’t really fit the profile for a sociopath anyway.
pec, you talking about the Bath School Disaster?
Cassandra, so you have an education relevant to the discussion.
How do we raise people who don’t have violent urges?
If you think that’s a question that can be answered neatly and easily in one comment then you’re even dumber than I thought.
Diogenes: If you wanted to create a child that would grow up to be violent, how would you do it?
A chaotic childhood, lots of beatings, verbal abuse, etc. Not saying that everyone who grows up in that sort of environment will become violent, but that kind of environment tends to create people capable of doing horrible things.
The stupid, it burns.
Osama bin Laden didn’t have that sort of upbringing.
Nor did Tim McVeigh: The man convicted of the worst act of domestic terrorism in U.S. history spent his early years in surroundings straight out of a Norman Rockwell painting. In many ways, McVeigh had a typical middle-class American upbringing in the rural New York towns of Pendleton and Lockport, outside of Buffalo. The main pastimes were church bingo games, bowling and football.
Care to try again?
Well, if I were to change the culture to prevent violence, I’d first associating violence with masculinity, like in here:
http://www.shakesville.com/2012/12/this-is-real-thing-in-world.html
Mcveigh had social issues.
And my counter to Osama Bin Laden is Charles Manson.
Diogenes: Bath School Disaster?
Very good. I’ll even be generous, and accept that you didn’t need to google it.
So, how you gonna keep someone from getting upset over things like that?
What are you proposing to keep middle aged men from getting upset and taking it out on other people?
And, for someone worried about how mature they look, my name isn’t “pec”.
Is Diogenes saying that Lanza’s parents were abusive to him? Or that he was in prison? Or that whatever mental health treatment he had gotten was punitive in some way?
Honestly, I can’t tell.