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a voice for men antifeminism men who should not ever be with women ever MRA oppressed men playing the victim sympathy for murderers

[TRIGGER WARNING; UPDATED] A Voice for Men commenter claims that the Newtown shooting is evidence of the oppression of men

Men’s Rights activists and others in the manosphere often complain that it’s unfair to link their movement to killers like the virulent antifeminist mass murderers Marc Lepine and Anders Breivik, even though the antifeminist, anti-woman ideology of these killers is oftem indistinguishable from MRA thought.

But the plain fact is that they make the links themselves. Whenever there is some sort of mass killing by someone who is driven at least in part by the hatred of women, it seems like it’s only a matter of time before some MRA steps up to, if not explicitly endorse the killer, at least suggest some sort of sympathy or empathy with him and/or to suggest that the killing in some way is an understandable or justifiable or even praiseworthy reaction to the the alleged oppression of men.

This time it seems to have happened with record speed. Over on the A Voice for Men forum, one commenter, GregA, compares the mass killer in Newtown today — whose motives are still completely unknown — with oppressed people rising up against tyranny in the Middle East:

AVFMgredonshooter

So far the only reply he’s gotten challenges this odious comparison, so that’s a tiny bit comforting.

Naturally, the MRAs will say that this commenter is some sort of feminist troll. But he’s made dozens of comments on the AVFM forums that are standard-issue MRA stuff – he seems to be a bit obsessed with the notion that feminist commenters online are being paid for commenting – and his comments in the past (at least those that I looked at) seem to have been generally well-received there.

EDITED TO ADD: If you would like to discuss the Newton shootings without having to think about this horrible comment of GregA’s, I’ve set up a separate no-trolls, no MRAs, thread for that.

EDITED TO ADD MORE: Meanwhile, over on A Voice for Men itself, one of the first commenters in a thread on the subject blames the shootings on, you guessed it, misandry:

AVFMshootermisandry

Meanwhile, AVFM “managing editor” Dean Esmay complains that feminists “will find some way or other to blame us in specific for this.” In case Esmay is reading this, I am not blaming the Men’s Rights movement for this shooting, mainly because we have absolutely no idea what motivated the shooter. What I am doing is pointing out that someone on AVFM’s own forum, someone who has previously posted there extensively, is comparing this murderer of children to some kind of freedom fighter, and another in the very thread you are posting in has decided (based on absolutely nothing) that “misandry” is to blame.

You may also recall the numerous comments from MRAs justifying or at least excusing, the Seal Beach shooter.

Here are some more MRA comments on the Seal Beach murders which I chose not to post at the time. These are from A Voice for Men. (In the original thread they weren’t next to one another; there’s more horrible stuff in the thread besides these two comments.)

AVFMsealbeachSalonNArcissism

AVFMsealbeachstu2

Are these guys “feminist trolls?” No. They are both long-time commenters at AVFM.

But again, pointing out these horrible comments is not the same as blaming the MRM for that shooting, or for the shooting today.

In the case of Lepine and Breivik, people linked them to MRAs because they had (or in the case of Breivik still has) virulently anti-feminist worldviews virtually identical with much of the stuff posted regularly on Men’s Rights sites, and other “manosphere” sties generally.

Presumably we will learn more about this shooter’s motivations, and then we can decide if anyone besides the shooter himself is to blame.

EDITED TO ADD ONCE MORE: Elam has now shut down the thread on A Voice for Men; as I write this the thread on the A Voice for Men forum is still up. I suggest you take a look at it and make screenshots. Elam says it’s because I’m “using comments from the thread in order to push his lies.” It’s not clear how quoting his followers (in full, without edits) is a “lie.” Apparently he’s unwilling to let his followers continue to post comments because, we can only assume, he knows they will say more horrific things, and people outside the AVFM cult might see what those inside it actually think.

Not, at this point, that there’s much doubt about what they think.

EDITED TO ADD STILL MORE: Meanwhile, over on The Spearhead:

SPshooter

As most of the readers here will know, the shooter was 20 years old, wasn’t a father and the shooting had nothing to do with any custody battle.

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The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

The Age has reproduced an article by Petula Dvorak in the Washington Post. Worth reading, I think.

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen

The other word you might have been reaching for is “pistol”, which is less obvious.

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

Also, given that Sweden and Christmas are vaguely relevant here, I’d like to thank the Swedes for the general tastiness of julmust! Always been a fan of unusual soft drinks and it’s a real favourite when I can find it.

talacaris
talacaris
7 years ago

Which also is bottled each easter as påskmust. The labels on the bottles is different, though.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

What is this fabulous Swedish beverage you speak of? And do they sell it at IKEA?

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

It’s a vaguely beery-tasting creaming-sodaalike, I guess. Looks like Coca-Cola or similar, except with a ruby-red tinge under light. IKEA’s the only place you can get it here.

scarlettpipistrelle
7 years ago

We have a local independent grocery that carries Scandinavian goodies. The lady told me the lingonberry harvest failed this year.

katz
7 years ago

AVfM has been eclipsed for the title of biggest post-tragedy asshole. By Brian Fisher, of course.

katz
7 years ago

Sorry, Bryan Fischer. I can’t spell.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

What a lousy fucking creep. Honestly – they present the idea of a god who is out-and-out evil, and then wonder why church attendences are falling?

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

The thing is: the shooter attended a Catholic elementary school. There was almost surely prayer in his school environment growing up. Either this is a case of people trying to distract from gun control arguments and thinking “hmm, schools – prayer in schools! We haven’t brought that up in a bit!”, or the implication is that the tragedy wasn’t the shooter doing the actual shooting but God not protecting the kids, which doesn’t really sound very God-glorifying.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

If the God that those people worship exists he’s a real asshole.

Brain bleach – belligerent cat, patient dog.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

Heheh I think kitteh was saying “I just want to sit close, not have my face covered in drool!”

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

More brain bleach: a pushycat.

http://youtu.be/8t28BrsZeuM

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I have a pushycat. That’s the only reason I got out of bed today despite my transformation into a snot factory – she kept bugging me.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

She knows what’s best for you! Really!

… Whaddya mean, getting up and feeding her isn’t what’s best for you?

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

Yes, julmust… Coca cola has been campaigning for ages here to make their drink the Christmas drink of choice, but I don’t think they’re every gonna replace julmust.

BigMomma
7 years ago

Scotland has Irn Bru as its favourite sugary drink rather than coke. it’s an interesting flavour.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

It’s hard to describe irn bru, isn’t it? I feel like the color is part of how you perceive the flavor too, and if they made it clear it might not be as good.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

Irn Bru got a (derogatory) mention in New Tricks the other night. And I love the Lonely Planet comment on it: “Definitely an acquired taste is the virulent orange-coloured fizzy drink, Irn-Bru; it’s 100% sugar with some pretty weird flavouring.”

I stuck to tea and coffee. 😛

kysokisaen
7 years ago

IKEA’s the only place you can get it here.

A friend of mine was assigned the task of turning crappy wine into drinkable mulled wine this holiday. For some reason he was talking about going to Ikea to get grog as a potential ingredient. I either talked him out of it or he was screwing with me the whole time.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
7 years ago

We’re having a party on Friday which is going to involve mulled Buckfast. I think BigMomma and CassandraSays will understand my trepidation.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

When I think of Christmas drinks, I think of eggnog. I buy a bottle of Jim Beam eggnog every year to share with my family. You can’t get drunk on it, because it’s too rich and filling. I think it’s a good drink when you have a cold, too, because whiskey is good for colds.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Why would you mull Buckfast? Is it a survival of the fittest type experiment to see which of the guests die?

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
7 years ago

I’m not surprised that MRAs would try to pin the blame on women. Pathetic, really, since it was women who put themselves between the gunmen and the children. Those teachers are heros.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
7 years ago

@Cassandra

I suspect that might be a side effect. Buckfast is the official drink of the punk scene, so when my friends heard about one of the clubs up North mulling it, it was decided that we had to do it too.

I swear to god I am actually an adult and if they told me to jump off a cliff I wouldn’t do it.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

It sounds like it will taste horrible too. You have to remember that the Scots like torturing each other. We drink snakebite and blackcurrant voluntarily!

(For Americans, snakebite is beer plus cider, so when you add blackcurrant it’s kind of the Jagermeister of Scotland, almost guaranteed to come back to haunt you later in the evening.)

BigMomma
7 years ago

@thenatfantastic…buckfast *shudder*, mulled buckfast, *whimpers and hides*

I was able to source Irn Bru in Oz. I have a can in my fridge for moments of desperation.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
7 years ago

I’ll report back next Saturday, assuming I survive the experiment.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
7 years ago

Don’t tell me you fear the experiment?

😉

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

Irn Bru’s available here???

Strewth, like we don’t produce enough dubious stuff already! (Not that I can talk, I don’t drink alcohol or fizzy drinks.)

timetravellingfool
7 years ago

Haha, good comic on gun control:
http://thismodernworld.com/

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

LOVE that cartoon, TTF!

timetravellingfool
7 years ago

😀 I search the internet for awesome so you don’t have to!

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

<3 🙂

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

I see that fuckwit Huckabee is now saying it’s not just the lack of prayer in schools that’s to blame for the murders, it’s “government funded abortion pills”, accepting human sexual orientations as normal rather than sinful, and the lack of publicly displayed nativity scenes.

Seriously, how deep can this moron dig himself?

Former feminist
Former feminist
7 years ago

Oh wow and what do you know. The entire mainstream media is saying masculinity and manhood are the cause of this tragedy. Whoops, I guess AVfM were right. Too bad you are so biased you wouldn’t report this.

You know, I was all for equality and feminism until I reached your website David. Then, after advertising AVfM as horrible people I went to their site. Lo and behold, they say nothing that you put on your website. In fact, they point out obvious issues that men face. Guess you skimmed over those points.

It makes me wonder if you can read. And, for someone who is so clearly biased, I see this movement for what it is. Misandry.

Good luck, feminism is losing ever so slowly because of people like you David.

Yoyo
Yoyo
7 years ago

Oh sad pretend feminist, please note the misquotes or just fuck off.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

Do I catch a whiff of returning troll here? The stale smell of sockpuppet? Though as I just said elsewhere, misogynists’ nonsense tends to be a bit samey after a while.

Hey dipshit, David links to AVfM and the other sites. He doesn’t make stuff up, unlike you and your pretence of ever having been a feminist.

Yoyo
Yoyo
7 years ago

Hey my kitteh, sometimes these losers just make me soooo very tired. I can’t remember if you’re in aus but if you are great show on abc Jack Irish. Otherwise please to all man boobians except the trolls refresh and recover. Love yoyo

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I was totally going to be a feminist, you guys, but then I found one site that I didn’t like and now I think all feminists are the spawn of Satan. This is totally and sincerely what happened – I’m not a bad troll, it’s just that I find it hard to commit.

Yoyo
Yoyo
7 years ago

No Cassandra, I was going to be a feminist but then there were no unicorns so fuck all women, mkay?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

No, what happens is that the unicorns refused to fuck me because of feminism and that’s when I realized that feminism is misandry.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
7 years ago

“If women don’t do exactly as I want them to, I don’t want them to have basic human rights any more”.

Feminism has truly lost one of the greats.

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

@kittehhelp

At Coles where I live, actually. Good stuff.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“And, for someone who is so clearly biased, I see this movement for what it is. Misandry.”

“Do I catch a whiff of returning troll here? The stale smell of sockpuppet?”

Yeah, I’m smelling a familiar troll here too. Though I think we may’ve had someone going by “A former feminist” or something similar before — I’m not sure this one got banned and isn’t just that troll repeating on us. (Ew, regurgitated troll, tastes worse than regurgitated wasabi)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Wow, that’s some epically bad grammar in the bit Argenti quoted.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
7 years ago

now I think all feminists are the spawn of Satan

Does that mean we were all conceived by MAYONNAISE?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

On the eighth day, while the Lord was still resting, Satan got busy with some bread and feminism was born.