When confronted with the simple fact that men hold the overwhelming majority of positions of power in the world – in government, business, culture, and pretty much everything else – MRAs like to pretend that the actual gender of those in power makes no difference because, well, the men in power are probably a bunch of manginas doing the dirty work of the women who really run the world. Or something like that.
Indeed, some MRAs have even managed to convince themselves that the very basic historical and sociological fact that men in power, by and large, tend to represent men’s interests more than women’s interests is some sort of locical fallacy – something that they’ve labeled “The Frontman Fallacy.”
Now A Voice for Men contributor and YouTube videoblogger TyphonBlue has done these guys one better in terms of sheer antifeminist loopiness. In the comments on one of the Warren Farrell protest videos I recently wrote about, she argues that men in power don’t really push male interests because … they probably don’t even think of themselves as men.
Here she is, writing under her other nom-de-net Genderratic:
I don’t even know what to say to this. I mean, WHAT?!
PROTIP: You’re not going to convince anyone you’re a great ally of trans* people if you refer to them as “it.”
Don’t worry, Shiraz, there’s plenty more where that came from – somewhere past the S-bend, I suspect.
Somewhere between 50 and 90%, give or take.
You know what really puzzles me? Back before TyphonBlue was banned on NSWATM she identified herself as a transwoman. I made the mistake of assuming she was a man, based on her total lack of empathy for victims of street sexual harassment, and she revealed herself to be a transwoman. She repeatedly trolled the NSWATM comments until she got banned, but with this post now I’m left wondering if she’s trolling about other things, like being trans or identifying as a woman. Is that an awful thing to wonder? I would never question someone’s gender identity normally, but this being the MRM, is it possible for a transperson to be so fucking insensitive towards trans issues? Am I an asshole for wondering if this is a case of a man pretending to be a woman within the MRM to show that hey, MRAs aren’t misogynists, look, this woman agrees with us! And the trans ID might be either to show that MRAs aren’t cis-sexist or to just somehow appeal to people who think that because TyphonBlue probably existed as a man at one point in her life that gives her greater perspective? Ugh I don’t know. I just can’t swallow the idea that an actual transwoman would question the gender identity of huge swaths of people, and then refer to them as “it”. Sets off my bullshit detector—are there any trans*people reading who can give some insights? I feel like as a cis person I’m on shaky ground here.
Well, personally, I like TyphonBlue; I think she’s got interesting things to say. But I have to concede: this particular idea of hers is pretty f***ing out there 😉
Jonathan: please name one thing or idea she’s put out there that is ‘interesting’ and not ‘terrifying.’
Better yet, name five.
Kthx.
I thought it was interesting when TyphonBlue wrote that article saying that being a man is like having a shock collar constantly going off and that learning how to please men’s penises elevates women above livestock.
I’m sorry, did I say interesting? I meant completely ridiculous and sexist.
@kittyhot18
Sadly yes, trans* people are not immune to internalizing the transphobia that exists in society, just like women are not immune to internalizing misogyny.
This article by Natalie Reed about transphobia inside the trans* community probably details it better than I could. The fact of the matter is that trans* people are people first and foremost, and sometimes people are assholes.
@kittyhot18
Also, I realize you asked for input from trans* people, but I am cis, so take what I say with caution, I don’t represent the trans* community, and I have no personal experience with it.
I miss aaall the funny trolls! Clearly I need to spend more time on ManBoobs. I’ve been negligent in my blog-hanging-out-ing lately.
@pecunium – thanks for rebutting Clarence on that point. I got busy last night and couldn’t come back to see what I was sure would be a brilliantly insightful response *eyeroll*
kittyhot:
While it’s extremely tempting to identify all the women in the MRM as secretly guys, we generally try not to question people’s identification. We would not want people doing that to us, and anyway, it’s got nothing to do with their actual arguments.
Why I think she really is probably a trans woman if she says she is: When trolls come here or to other feminist spaces, it makes sense that they would pretend to be women, because they think feminists only listen to women or whatever. But why pretend to be a woman in a movement that only values men? She must take shit for it all the time, like Evito did. And trans? Most MRAs think trans isn’t even a thing!
One could imagine them intentionally adding fake women to seem more inclusive, but a) they’re not that clever and they could never get over their ARGLEBARGLEHAET long enough to see the potential benefit, b) they’re 100% self-serving, so none of them would be willing to take the fall and pretend to be a woman, and c) they’re constantly driving off the women who are there.
OH NOES TEH GAYS!
😀
As long as we’re on trans* issues, I have a question.
Given that terms like “male-bodied” and “female-bodied” are exclusionary toward people who identify as male or female, and thus experience their bodies as male or female, but do not have the features usually being referred to…what can we use instead to refer to people with stereotypically male or female bodies? Are there terms in use that mean “having a penis and the associated ductwork” and “having breasts, vulva, etc.” without the need to type out the entire phrase?
Or did I just answer my own question by using the word “stereotypical?”
Karalora: I don’t think you did answer your own question there, and I do think it’s important ’cause of health issues…
I’ve been trying to come up with an answer for that recently, because I’m tangentially involved in a project about intersex rights, which necessarily involves a lot of talking about genitals without implying that they go with a particular gender. I kind of want to make up entirely new words and call people with bodies that feature penises, balls, etc. “glumps” and people with bodies that feature breasts, vulvas, etc. “florps” and people whose bodies are somewhere in between “sclurbs” or something, just to stop getting tangled up in unfortunate and offensive implications while still being able to form a coherent sentence talking about those body parts.
It’s not just health issues; it’s relevant to how people are perceived by others. “Male/female-assigned-at-birth” are close to what I’m looking for, but still a little clunky – plus if we can get to the point where people aren’t assigned anything at birth but allowed to develop their gender identity without the burden of pre-assigned labels, there will still be a need to talk about body parts. I think what I’m hoping for is a prefix like “cis-“.
RE: Karalora
I’ve seen it dealt with a few ways. Probably most relevant to what you mentioned was using the body parts completely divorced from gender. Buck Angel and… oh hell, Whatshername, did a sorta PSA where they basically said, “Hey men, if you have a vagina, go get a pelvic exam…” and “Hey ladies, if you’re like me and have a prostate, you still need to get it examined every…”
But generally, the only people who NEED that kind of specificity are medical personnel. There’s also plenty of slang out there for people who don’t like those words. (Just among the ones I can think of off the top of my head: “girlcock,” “front hole,” “girlystick,” etc.) And plenty of folks who use whatever words they prefer for their junk, plus the classic “innie bits” and “outie bits.”
I mostly get around it by refusing to discuss my body parts with anyone but the people who need to know.
RE: Karalora
Also keep in mind that depending on genetics and medical work, those bits can CHANGE, to the point that trying to shoehorn them into conventional vocab doesn’t work all that well.
I don’t have a good answer to the terms question (nor am I trans*) but I have recently taken to substituting “people with vaginas” or “people with uteri” for “women” when I’m talking about something specific to vagina and/or uterus ownership. It’s a little clunky but it’s much more precise and accurate.
Karalora, good question! I’m not in love with MAAB/FAAB either; it has odd implications (what’s being born got to do with it? If we had pod people, would it not apply to them?).
Also MAAB/FAAB seems to presuppose that there is a clear assignment at birth and also that that the appeance of the body parts does not change by itself.
Suddenly it makes so much sense why the various men in power around the world have been advocating so hard on behalf of trans women!
Even if I do not identify as male, I still have a male body and therefore have male privilege. Is it okay if I disregard that? No.
and I don’t mind FAAB because I’m FAABulous 😉
re: LBT… you’re referring to Drew Deveaux in the Buck Angel PSA. 🙂
Sweetie, when your friends told you they would love to be a woman for a day so that they could have free access to a pair of boobs, they weren’t talking about forever. I can just imagine all these men who blame feminism for their problems crumbling under the weight of being a woman.
PROTIP: You’re not going to convince any trans woman you’re a great ally of trans people if you insist on using that degendering blithering disaster of an asterisk.
This is now a trans woman, and a bidirectional feminist (meaning my model is cissexism + masculosexism/femmephobia instead of just two-legs-good/three-legs-bad) who you will invariably talk over in another pathetic attempt to promote your agenda over the corpses of my sisters.
You would be ashamed of yourself if you actually believed the words coming out of your mouth when it comes to your respect for trans women, especially the vast majority of us who, and I say this as an ally to them, as a woman who carries conditional cis privilege over them, who have been denied even the ability to identify, the closet door buttressed, among other factors, by the implicitly transmisogynistic and masculosexist.memes you propagate.