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FeMRA TyphonBlue: What if the men who seem to run the world … AREN’T REALLY MEN?

How women rule the world.
Women ruling the world?

When confronted with the simple fact that men hold the overwhelming majority of positions of power in the world – in government, business, culture, and pretty much everything else – MRAs like to pretend that the actual gender of those in power makes no difference because, well, the men in power are probably a bunch of manginas doing the dirty work of the women who really run the world. Or something like that.

Indeed, some MRAs have even managed to convince themselves that the very basic historical and sociological fact that men in power, by and large, tend to represent men’s interests more than women’s interests is some sort of locical fallacy – something that they’ve labeled  “The Frontman Fallacy.”

Now A Voice for Men contributor and YouTube videoblogger TyphonBlue has done these guys one better in terms of sheer antifeminist loopiness. In the comments on one of the Warren Farrell protest videos I recently wrote about, she argues that men in power don’t really push male interests because … they probably don’t even think of themselves as men.

Here she is, writing under her other nom-de-net Genderratic:

yttyphonbluebizarre3yttyphonbluebizarre2yttyphonbluebizarre

I don’t even know what to say to this. I mean, WHAT?!

PROTIP: You’re not going to convince anyone you’re a great ally of trans* people if you refer to them as “it.”

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grumpyoldnurse
grumpyoldnurse
6 years ago

Yep, Ferguson is all kinds of messed up. 🙁

Remember the troll who was all ‘the police are here to help you’? Wonder if he’s changed his tune?

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

I think the whole thing was intentional. I did not realize at the time that she writes an online gossip column. At one point she came right out and said she would be using the conversation in her writings. Suddenly it all made sense. She is going to write a hit piece on David, but the asterisk kerfluffle is, after all, two years old, so now she has been banned. Mission accomplished.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

All I know was that she was very active on twitter demanding David apologise for… something…

Ooh, was it before this whole mess went down, or after?

I’m almost positive that this whole thing is a “Gotcha” attempt – appear out of nowhere, act like an absolute arseshoe, use the resulting mockery as bullshit James O’Keefe-level “Proof” that we’re trans-exclusionary rather than arseshoe-exclusionary, ???, PROFIT.

Yet another way in which she was indistinguishable from our other MRA trolls.

As for Darren Wilson…

Apparently cops are behind barracades around the courthouse. The whole thing smacks of “we’re gonna let this guy go and not give you justice, but don’t you dare do anything about it.”

With a side of “we have to take all these precautions because The Blacks are going to get violent”. There was a good editorial in the Boston Globe about this.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

I want a “Bastard People” t-shirt.

BreakfastMan
BreakfastMan
6 years ago

@grumpyoldnurse: Probably not. Probably eager for “those savages to show their true colors” or some such shit. Ugh. -_-

grumpyoldnurse
grumpyoldnurse
6 years ago

Wierd. It’s like a restaurant reviewer going into some fancy place and pitching a fit and flipping tables so that they could write a review about how rude the staff is and you shouldn’t eat there, even though I never tried the food because it just isn’t up to my standards.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

And the portions were so small.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

It’s really sad that this Clarence Darrow quote from 1902 is just as true today.

See what the law is; when these men get control of things, they make the laws. They do not make the laws to protect anybody; courts are not instruments of justice; when your case gets into court it will make little difference whether you are guilty or innocent; but it’s better if you have a smart lawyer. And you cannot have a smart lawyer unless you have money. First and last it’s a question of money. Those men who own the earth make the laws to protect what they have. They fix up a sort of fence or pen around what they have, and they fix the law so the fellow on the outside cannot get in. The laws are really organized for the protection of the men who rule the world. They were never organized or enforced to do justice. We have no system for doing justice, not the slightest in the world.

grumpyoldnurse
grumpyoldnurse
6 years ago

@ WWTH – human nature is immutable.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

And yeah, this is exactly why my response to “well just go to the police” was “LOL”. The cops are very selective about who they help and who they harm.

kittehserf
6 years ago

My pleasure, grumpyoldnurse! Kitty fails are a good antidote for craptastic stuff, I find.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

Just gonna leave this story here.

A ways back I was walking home with a samurai sword I got as a gift from my then-girlfriend. It was late at night, nobody was around, and I was an idiot, so I unsheathed it and started swinging it around. Apparently someone in a car driving by called the police, because soon a cop pulled over in front of me and told me to put the weapon down (I had stopped swinging it by then).

I did. He didn’t tell me to get on the ground or anything, he came over and picked it up, we chatted for a bit, I explain that I was just on my way home. He called me an idiot, sure, but I managed to convince him that he didn’t need to take the sword to the station if he drove me the rest of the way home. I got back home, alive and pretty much unharassed.

I’m 6’8″, but I’m white. I doubt things would have been nearly as smooth if I were black.

The guy I watched deliver the courts non-indictment kept saying everyone needs to work together to make sure this sort of thing doesn’t happen again. He repeated it something like two or three times. I’m sitting here wondering what black folks are supposed to do, exactly, to prevent another innocent kid from being shot, and why they should need to do anything at all.

A dumbass like me can do pretty much whatever the fuck he wants with a literal sword, and apparently that doesn’t scare a cop enough to use lethal force, but a black dude with stolen cigarellos does.

BreakfastMan
BreakfastMan
6 years ago
kittehserf
6 years ago

Clarence Darrow nailed it, as so often.

VK is a troll’s troll: she seems to be on the rampage at the moment, because I’ve seen her attacking radical feminists on their blogs as well.

kittehserf
6 years ago

BreakfastMan, got me in my feels too. Them and so many, many other kids. Fuck racism.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

A 12-year-old, recently.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

There is nothing that black kids can do to stop cops from shooting them. Are they supposed to develop bulletproof bodies, or Wolverine-like healing abilities? Ffs, people.

BreakfastMan
BreakfastMan
6 years ago

@kittehserf: Yeah, makes me incredibly sad that stuff like this:

https://twitter.com/PeterPerfect09/status/537068539060826112

seems so sadly true. The world really sucks some times. 🙁

grumpyoldnurse
grumpyoldnurse
6 years ago

@ cassandrakitty – they’re supposed to stop being black, first and foremost.

I hope racism and child rape apologists step on all the Lego.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Gods yes, that sign. 🙁

That twelve-year-old being murdered was on the news here last night. The police were even TOLD it was likely a toy gun he had, but no, shoot him down anyway …

duckbunny
6 years ago

“Cisfeminists have long since forfeited their moral authority to claim pronoun respect.”

I know she’s been banned, but I literally facepalmed at that.

Did we know that we are required to earn moral authority before we count as people and get to be treated like people who shouldn’t be deliberately misgendered because we’re people?
Because now we know!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Also, has she considered how easily that could backfire? If that was to become the standard, that we only use the pronoun someone prefers if we deem them morally worthy, does she not see how that could be used against her, and other trans women? Someone clearly did not think this through very well.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

The thing about these cases is that cops *generally* don’t just shoot someone completely out of the blue these days. There’s always going to be some detail of the situation they can point to for why they think they were justified.

On the blurred scale between completely justified and completely unjustified, there is a line past which it is ok to use deadly force. Racism in the police force these days isn’t about killing without reason, it’s about sliding that boundry line one direction for black folks and the other direction for white folks. The result is lots of dead black folks where every case can be argued to be justified just so long as you focus on certain details and ignore others.

Guess what happened to the open-carry assholes who brought giant rifles into stores and resteraunts? No police action. Guess what happened to Cliven Bundy when he and his gang of thugs got together and took over an area in Texas, shooting at officers? Feds backed down.

Guess what happened to the black kid holding a toy gun in a toy store? Shot dead.

There was even, and I forget the exact details, a dude who had a gun and aimed it at officers, but they didn’t kill him and he ended up getting apprehended.

People can argue til the cows come home about whether Wilson was justified in this particular scenario, come to a conclusion that he was, and argue that it wasn’t racism but the evidence. Welp, guess what. Racism is what guides your analysis of the evidence. The proof is in the big picture.

The guy who presented the non-indictment assured reporters that the jury did the best they could, and made the best assessment of the evidence, and that it would be tremendously unfair to accuse them of bias. Citation fucking needed.

grumpyoldnurse
grumpyoldnurse
6 years ago

it’s about sliding that boundry line one direction for black folks and the other direction for white folks.

QFFT!

Also, racism isn’t one isolated incident, it’s a pattern (you implied this, but I had to state in explicitly, or else the QFT is just me spamming the thread)

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

The prosecutor Robert McCulloch has several family members who work for the police, is cop father was killed by a black man, and he has a history of not getting indictments in police shootings even though he is very good at getting indictments for every other type of crime. He declined to let a special prosecutor take the case when questions about his bias came up. It was a foregone conclusion that there would be no indictment.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

This one’s a real piece of work. How familiar are people here with her? She posts on MRA boards and told a woman (TW: child rape) that it wasn’t so bad her eight-year-old-daughter being raped because she had “damselling” to support her. This is radioactive-waste level toxic, abuser’s misogyny.

Ugh, why am I not surprised? I didn’t have time to filter through all her drivel, and it’s just as well…if I had see THAT, my keyboard would be fried from all the stomach acids.

Also, fuck Ferguson and everything about it. That is all.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

The prosecutor is taking some mockery online over his rather bizarre press conference where he indicted everyone except Wilson.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/st-louis-prosecutor-mcculloch-roasted-online-for-indicting-everybody-but-darren-wilson/

kittehserf
6 years ago

Bina – she didn’t spout that particular bit of hatred here, if that’s what you meant about not seeing it; I brought it up just in case anyone unfamiliar with her was, well, naive enough to see this thread and do the “nasty people picking on poor trans woman!” kneejerk reaction.

Tracy
6 years ago

I wish I was surprised about Ferguson. Fucking hell. And this little boy, for chrissakes, in Cleveland? Just… fucking hell.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Bina – she didn’t spout that particular bit of hatred here, if that’s what you meant about not seeing it; I brought it up just in case anyone unfamiliar with her was, well, naive enough to see this thread and do the “nasty people picking on poor trans woman!” kneejerk reaction.

That’s what I figured, after a re-read. And nope, I can’t say I was fooled for a minute. Trolls will use any edge they can. I used to be trolled by hateful supporters of the Israeli military on my blog, and one of them tried a “cross-gender person” schtick with me, too. I wasn’t fooled. IPs don’t lie.

Puddleglum
6 years ago

Another ‘not surprised about the indictment’ person here. I would hate humanity, but there are sparks of progress every once and a while, so I keep hoping.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

One of the things I find hardest to understand about virulent racists is the way their racism shuts off the natural adult response that most of us have to the idea of a child being attacked.

Puddleglum
6 years ago

@cassandrakitty, to me that’s the clearest indication of just how fucked up they are. Even children are Other to them.

Puddleglum
6 years ago

thanks, David.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Valerie Keefe is an actual trans woman, not a dude pretending to be one for trolling purposes, just FYI.

Puddleglum
6 years ago

On tangent with the loong troll party of last night, I really hate the term ‘preferred pronouns’. Like, this is my preference, but I also have secondary choices in case that’s a problem? Is that a thing that happens?

Pepper: And what pronouns would prefer this evening?
Salt: I’d like she, please.
Pepper: I’m sorry, we’re all out of ‘she’, do you have a second choice?
Salt: Could I have ‘zie’, then?
Pepper: Let me check. Nope, we just used the last one.
Salt: Well, what do you actually have left?
Pepper: *checks list* Well, we have ‘sie’, one ‘they’, and lots of ‘mango’. Nobody seems to like mango.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Yeah, Bina, what cassandrakitty said above: VK is a trans woman, and a loathesome misogynist, not some MRA pretending. There’s more overlap than you’d (general you) believe between extreme gender activists and MRAs, until you’ve seen their shit for yourself. The frothing misogyny isn’t all they have in common: a total FAIL at biology is another.

duckbunny
6 years ago

I quite like “preferred pronouns”, because the obvious-to-me alternative is “correct pronouns”, and it’s much easier to police that. Preferred takes us out of the realm where anyone else gets to have an opinion, and into the realm of personal sovereignty. If I say I prefer “he”, then you can talk til the cows come home about whether I deserve “he” or have earned “he” or ought to like “he” or am perpetuating binary oppression by using “he”, but none of that will change the fact that I prefer “he”. If you choose not to use my preferred pronouns, it forces you to be honest that you think you are entitled to select the correct pronouns for me – maybe we can have a conversation about why you think that, but you won’t be able to hide your refusal to honour my preference behind a philosophical disagreement. You’ll have to openly override my decision.
It’s a bit like dietary preferences: in my world, a dietary preference is to be respected. I don’t need to know whether you’re vegetarian because of animal rights or enviromentalism or Buddhism or digestive comfort. I just don’t need to know why your dietary preference is not to eat meat. I only have to honour that preference.

unrelatedly, I went and read quite a lot of Keefe’s writing elseweb, and now I feel dysphoric and crappy.

kittehserf
6 years ago

duckbunny – hugs, if they’re welcome.

Puddleglum
6 years ago

I just like ‘these are my pronouns’. Cuz it’s NOT up for debate.

Sorry if I added to the dysphoria. Dysphoria sucks.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Seconding the hugs. Reading Keefe’s stuff is enough to put anyone in a bad mood. I can’t even imagine how much more worse it would be for someone who’s actually trans, but I can imagine having the same sort of “why do I have to be part of the same demographic as these assholes?” reaction I’m having the the people cheerleading Wilson.

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

If you factor in Valerie’s belief that she is so much better at being a woman than we are, it makes perfect sense that she’s an MRA. Part of their ideology is that women get everything easier than men, but they are also terrible. If you take that line of thinking to it’s logical conclusion, becoming a woman makes perfect sense. It’s all the other MRAs who stay men who are the hypercritical.

duckbunny
6 years ago

Puddleglum: yeah, I can see that aspect. “My pronoun IS” has a definite appeal.

Keefe’s worldview is… yeah. She speculates on people presenting as cis men being secretly trans women based on having in-her-eyes feminine features, but trans men are “dudebros”. It’s like trans women are the only real women, but trans men are fake men.
And then she started going on about how transitioning before the end of puberty is important for women but not really for men because for us “time isn’t skeleton”. The width of my pelvis would like to disagree, as would the calcification of my long bones.
And then I got dysphoric, because apparently all the way in which my body is irreversibly feminised just aren’t important. Trans men have it easy. Nobody’s heard of us, but we have it easy.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

There seems to be a strong vein of hatred for trans men in the specific form of trans woman activism that Keefe represents, and I find it deeply troubling. It’s showing up in more and more spaces too, I’ve even seen people drop comments suggesting that they subscribe to that worldview here.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Or maybe contempt would be a better word? I don’t know quite how to put it, there’s just a very strong sense of “you don’t matter” coming across in reference to trans men.

Catherine von Überwald
Catherine von Überwald
6 years ago

After reading few pages of her tumblr, I don’t think that in her word-view anybody who’s not her or thinking just like her, matter at all.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Keefe et al seem to hate trans men, because they’re not real men, and cis women, because we’re not real women (yes you read that correctly). They manage to ignore cis men entirely (funny that) and hold trans women up as the only humans Doin It Right. Yet they’re also of the variety who sneer at people with dysphoria, because apparently the only right and true way of being trans is to be male and declare yourself female, without even necessarily doing anything about transitioning. It really is like men trying to erase or subsume everything about being female.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Catherine – that probably sums her up.

I’d love to see her get into an argument with Fidelbogen. Such purple word-salad ragefroth would be entertaining, if largely incomprehensible.

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

I looked up some of VK’s online presence. Oh, my, but she should get a refund from Dale Carnegie. There are all SORTS of folks who just don’t like her. Oddly, both people I’d like and those I’d cross the street to avoid are in that category.

If she does write a piece about how cruelly we treated her, would someone link to it, please? I could do with a good laugh.