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A Voice for Men’s Attempts to Find and Publicize the Personal Information of a Toronto Activist Could Threaten That Young Woman’s Safety

cropped-man-yelling-at-computer

[TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE THREATS]

The Men’s Rights movement has been described by some as “the abusers’ lobby.” I don’t think that’s fair, but there are certainly those within the movement that fit the bill – not necessarily because they themselves are abusers, but because, among other things, they lionize abusers and advocate on their behalf.

In the case of hate site A Voice for Men, there is another way in which the term applies: the “activism” of the site and its followers, insofar as it consists of anything more than self-promotion, often mirrors the actions of abusers – AVFM is known for harassing individuals, usually women, and exposing (or threatening to expose) personal information that could be used to stalk and harm them, in an attempt to intimidate them and other feminists and shut them up. Indeed, the site on several occasions has offered $1000 “bounties” on the personal information of its foes.

Now AVFM has another individual in its sights: a young woman, presumably a student, who participated in a recent demonstration against Men’s Rights author Warren Farrell at the University of Toronto. Men’s Rights activists have been promoting a video depicting the protest, in which a group of feminist activists blockaded the building at which Farrell was speaking, until they were forcibly removed by police. The carefully-edited video pays particular attention to one of the activists, the woman in question, as she confronts supporters of Farrell, calling one of them “fucking scum.” (See here for an even-more-manipulatively propagandistic video that focuses even more intently on the woman; and here for one that more clearly depicts the police pulling, shoving, and knocking non-violent protestors to the ground.)

I don’t personally support blocking speeches by opponents; I think it’s bad both in principle and as a political tactic. But Warren Farrell certainly deserves criticism; demonstrators certainly have the right to demonstrate; and as anyone who has ever been to a demonstration knows, sometimes people on opposite sides shout at another.

Apparently the politically inexperienced “activists” at AVFM are unaware of this. And so the site has responded to the demonstration with a campaign to uncover and publicize this woman’s personal information – for the “crime” of using angry language at a protest. In one of the several posts on the subject now up on AVFM, the MRA known as JohnTheOther describes her as, among other things

her own generation’s brown shirt, and she knows it. …

She is clearly sadistic, unable and unwilling to recognize the humanity of anyone who does not slavishly and blindly agree with her own religion of hate.

There is more, much more; if you have the stomach for it, I suggest you read the full post to see JtO’s extended attack on the woman. As is often the case with MRA writings, the full quotes in context are worse than the excerpts I quote here.

A later post from site founder and head Paul Elam includes a picture of the woman, with the caption “Seeking this undesirable’s identity.”

Elam warns that

We have her image and know her general location. We will identify her and profile her activity and name for public view.

We will not stop there, or just with her. And while we will not publish our complete intent, we are dogged in our efforts.

Again, this quote is if anything worse in context; see the entire post here, filled with vituperative, thuggish, threatening language and illustrated with a picture of a violent storm, evidently intended to represent what AVFM is threatening to rain down upon its opponents.

In still another post, with the inflammatory title “Yanking Off the Hood,” Elam defends his site’s “doxxing” policy, writing

AVfM is conducting outreach and investigation into the identities of the persons involved in the violent protest against the rights of men and boys orchestrated and conducted by the University of Toronto Student Union and other antisocial elements within that institution.

To that end, one individual has already been identified, and you will be seeing a story on her here in the near future. Our search for the woman highlighted in the video of the protest continues, with some leads. …

Gender ideologues absolutely hate the light of day. They hate it shining on their ideas and on their lies. Many of them also don’t want it shining on their identities. They seek anonymity for the same reason Klansmen wear hoods.

Even beyond the vicious nature of AVFM’s language and tactics, the hypocrisy here is off the charts: most of AVFM’s writers – gender ideologues all – hide their identities behind pseudonyms, including of course JohnTheOther, who launched AVFM’s campaign against the still-unknown protester.

JtO, who now wishes to conceal his identity, used to write under his own name, and has linked his name with his pseudonym on YouTube and on Men’s Rights sites he has written for. Though his real name is fairly widely known, and can be uncovered with the simplest of web searches, JtO has now decided to try to get that cat back in the bag, and at one point demanded that I remove all mentions of his real name on this site so that he would not – irony alert — face harassment. As much as I don’t respect John, I respected this wish of his, and did so; he may want to take this issue up with his friend Elam, as a post by the AVFM head still up on the site identifies JohnTheOther by both name and pseudonym.

There is no question that the student activist targeted by JtO and AVFM will face harassment when and if her personal information is exposed. Indeed, she is already being singled out for abuse now. On YouTube, videos featuring her have inspired numerous threatening comments. Here are a sampling of comments I’ve found there:

ytwf2ytwf5ytwf6ytwf7ytwf8

Here you can find even more, sent to me by someone who was at the protest.

If AVFM releases the personal information of the student now being attacked online they are giving a green light for this sort of harassment online and off. They are aiding and abetting those who wish this woman to come to real physical harm.

That’s why I think it is fair to call AVFM a hate site, and a member of the abusers’ lobby.

(Meanwhile, JohnTheOther seems to be undergoing some sort of meltdown on Reddit; more on this in my next post.)

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gl205
8 years ago

There MUST be something the police can do about this?

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Now, now, David: they don’t hate women, just women who take exception to rape apologists. Big difference! [/sarc]

cherabushka
8 years ago

Thank you for posting this.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Do they seriously not realize how it makes them look when rape is their default threat? Learn to PR, guys.

screennameunknown
screennameunknown
8 years ago

This is dangerous. Did they learn nothing from the Gabriel Giffords shooting? Is there someone you can alert about this?

McKenzie
McKenzie
8 years ago

every time

every time I think the MRAs have got as bad as they can get
they get worse… they can’t be… WHO THINKS THAT THIS IS OKAY?

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

Could someone explain to me again why it’s the feminist demonstrators and not the rape apologists/youtube commenters using rape as a threat who are held in contempt by society?

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

her own generation’s brown shirt, and she knows it. …

She is clearly sadistic, unable and unwilling to recognize the humanity of anyone who does not slavishly and blindly agree with her own religion of hate.

Change the gender and you have the MRM in a nutshell. Although of course it’s not even disagreement, with them: they refuse to recognise the humanity of all women, as well as any men who disagree with them.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

Seeking this undesirable’s identity

“undesirable”

Not “woman”, not “person”, not “protester”, heck, not even “bigot” or “enemy” or something, simply “undesirable”, the dehumanization is so blatant.

Cthulhu's Intern
8 years ago

Wait, semi-new here. Is there any proof that his real name is Paul Elam? Because otherwise, I don’t buy it that his name really is “male” spelled backwards.

Anyways, why is it that “fucking scum” is worse than the shit they say? And why, if their definition of feminism took over America, did the cops remove them?

cherabushka
8 years ago

@ Cthulhu, yes, his name really is Elam, he admitted it in a post.

Bostonian
8 years ago

Once again, no bottom to that particular barrel.

cloudiah
8 years ago

A woman yells insults at them and they lose their shit completely. They are such whiny little babies. No wait, I take that back — babies usually have a good reason when they cry. They are so privileged that if they aren’t coddled and catered to at every fucking moment they actually perceive that as an attack.

And the rape threats? MRAs, if you’re reading this, these are your people. Embrace it.

Crys
Crys
8 years ago

Wow, this is really triggering. And can you belive Paul Elam commentend in one of the videos:
“Moderate the comments all you like. MRAs are not going away. Concern for men and boys is spreading, because it is a matter of justice. Warren Farrell is the least of your problems.”
So does this means he is aware of the rape threats? Even worse that line in the end, what does he mean with that?
And I apologize for the bad english is not my first language 🙂

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

It makes me so sad that people would think to sexualize violence and use that as a punishment. That’s not how sex is supposed to work 🙁

KathleenB
KathleenB
8 years ago

Because nothing says ‘peaceful protest movement’ like trying to find/publish personal information of someone exercising their right to free speech. And threatening to rape them.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

I suppose rape threats are to be expected from people who advocate for mens right to rape torture and abuse women. And in the case of Farrel, mens right to rape torture and abuse children. Creepy, but that is who they are.

Manny t. boobz
Manny t. boobz
8 years ago

These protestors physcially and verbally harassed innocent people, blocked them from enterting the building, vandalized posters, and I wouldn’t doubt threatened to batter (which is assault) the men attending the speech. They are in essence a violent hate lynch mob operating on a hateful ideology. As a result of this behavior, it provoked some very strong reactions and hyperbolic comments.

This is a complete failure for feminism – it showed its true colors. Revealing the DOX on the protestors wouldn’t result in violence against their persons, everyone knows who David is, and he hasn’t been assaulted or murdered, and he is one of hte most hated feminists on the planet.

Violence begets violence, but not in this case.

Melody
8 years ago

Feministfrequency a blog I follow found herself in a situation where she was attacked by those defending “gaming culture.
She did a lovely Tedxwomen talk about it.
You guys should check it out.

It was interesting.

A woman yells insults at them and they lose their shit completely. They are such whiny little babies

Yes, because they don’t scream insults and call women names on the internet. Nor do they threaten violence against women in any way………

They don’t seem to get how life works.

mxe354
mxe354
8 years ago

Quite the “human rights movement” we have there.

Melody
8 years ago

Quite the “human rights movement” we have there.

Oh, you hear that argument too? That feminists should be HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS and not dis-include a gender. However, these same folks are as anti-feminist and anti-HUMAN rights as you can get.

MKlein
MKlein
8 years ago

How the fuck does this movement (MRM) not come off as threatening to more people?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Oh, our trolls will No True Scotsman away the rape threateners. THESE ARE YOUR SUPPORTERS, ASSHOLES. I hope Steele is beside himself right now.

When Elam and JtO get doxxed, I hope they take it well.

sidestinkappleeye
8 years ago

When Elam and JtO get doxxed, I hope they take it well.

If you call letting the neighbors know that horrible smell in the area is the huge asshole that lives by them, “doxing” such is your prerogative, I suppose.

Jodi
Jodi
8 years ago

OMG, WTF is wrong with these people? You don’t agree with someone, so they should be physically harmed? Over an opinion?

Wow.

kysokisaen
8 years ago

So does this means he is aware of the rape threats? Even worse that line in the end, what does he mean with that?

He means to be threatening. He’d probably claim he’s foreshadowing some kind of righteous, spontaneous MRM-lead revolution, but a more accurate interpretation of “Warren Ferrell is the least of your problems” is that Warren is unlikely to be the already-unbalanced guy who lets this seething environment of hyperbolic rape threats convince him that it’s time to open fire at some randomly chosen women. That guy may or may not be an active member of the MRM community (it’s better for them if he’s not) and they’ll call him a hero while claiming they don’t endorse violence, but other than that he’s on his own. Simply doing that which the MRM says is a rational and even heroic response to institutionalised misandry is not enough to earn you a defence-fund fundraiser or anything like that.

It’s really terrible that the internet mob is the only form of action they’re actually capable of. I know their opinion leaders are patting themselves on the back for organising such a brave and effective campaign against the spectre of the Pottymouth Undergraduate, but they really haven’t organised shit, and they actually don’t have any control over it. Once unleashed the mob has a mind of its own. They assembled a hornets nest that can be poked at as needed but beyond that, they have no idea what’s next. I know they love the plausible deniability, but it still seems like a bad strategy. For starters, it gets less plausible every time.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

These protestors physcially and verbally harassed innocent people, blocked them from enterting the building, vandalized posters, and I wouldn’t doubt threatened to batter (which is assault) the men attending the speech. They are in essence a violent hate lynch mob operating on a hateful ideology. As a result of this behavior, it provoked some very strong reactions and hyperbolic comments.

So. The threats from our side which you assume happened are threats of assault, and the ones that we can point to from yours are just hyperbole.

Pull your trousers up and put a belt on, your bias is showing.

sidestinkappleeye
8 years ago

Pull your trousers up and put a belt on, your bias is showing.

Thank goodness it was just their bias showing. I thought is was the erection from the thought of fucking feminist’s shit up.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

They are in essence a violent hate lynch mob

Just imagine if they’d tried to lynch somebody, then you might even have a basis for saying that.

driversuz
driversuz
8 years ago

Can’t be holding a girl accountable now, can we? Perhaps if she wanted privacy, she could have avoided the camera. Or perhaps she’s too stupid to have noticed it a foot from her face.

Come on Booblets! Defend! Deflect! Reframe! Do anything but hold a female accountable for her own actions.

teratomatastic
8 years ago

[blockquote]
Can’t be holding a girl accountable now, can we? Perhaps if she wanted privacy, she could have avoided the camera. Or perhaps she’s too stupid to have noticed it a foot from her face.

Come on Booblets! Defend! Deflect! Reframe! Do anything but hold a female accountable for her own actions.
[/blockquote]

Yes. How dare she be female in public. Excellent point.

teratomatastic
8 years ago

Damn blockquotes. le sigh.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Suz, explain how posting her info so that MRM types can harass her is making her take accountability. You types don’t want accountability, you want this woman to apologize for existing in public.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Just use the < brackets instead of the [ ones and it (generally) works.

kysokisaen
8 years ago

Who holds the account-keepers accountable? Suz takes it for granted that we should agree that a mob formed by the aggrieved party is the proper mechanism for holding people accountable for their actions, or that the now-real possibility of stalking and/or physical harm is an appropriate punishment for whatever it is that she did, which we know wasn’t an arrest-able offense because she wasn’t arrested. Weren’t the cops right there, and not in the mood to coddle the protestors? Are not her dastardly deeds on tape for the prosecutor’s convenience? If she had done something vigilante-justice-worthy we’d probably know her name already because it would have been in the police blotter.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Ah, nothing like the good old MRM fetishization of arbitrary punishment dispensed by men dressed up as “accountability” and “consequences.”

cloudiah
8 years ago

So “holding a girl (sic) accountable” means threatening to rape her. What a fine “movement” you’ve got there suz — you must be so proud.

drst
drst
8 years ago

Can’t be holding a girl accountable now, can we?

Accountable for speaking in public? For having opinions? For existing while female? FOR FUCKING WHAT DO YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO TRY TO GET SOMEONE TO HURT THIS WOMAN TO HOLD HER “ACCOUNTABLE” TO YOUR FUCKED UP STANDARDS?

EVEN IF the protestors had hurt someone, which they DID NOT DO, vengeful idiotic assholes on the internet are not the ones to deal with it, the fucking police are. Did you try to get the names of the police officers who pepper sprayed the union protestors in Michigan last week? Did you try to sic the internet’s rage onto those guys who actually committed violence against some people? Of course not.

There was a god damned protest. Nobody got killed. Nobody got raped. Nobody was denied their ability to speak. The only people who got hurt were the people doing the protesting. So what in fucking hell do you think you’re “holding them accountable” for, you contemptuous piece of apologist shit? What exactly are these protestors being punished for doing when all they did was get the crap beaten out of them by the police?

The use of the word “lynch mob” to describe people exercising their free speech by the very same people who are trying to sick one on this woman is not lost on anyone here. You are attempting to get a lynch mob after this woman and you and John the Other and the rest of your despicable cadre of losers are practically salivating at the prospect of her getting hurt. I’d bet folding money JtO and Elam and the rest of the foul spawn of the MRM are jerking off in excitement over the idea of this woman being raped for her supposed crime of existing while female with opinions.

You are beneath contempt.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Apparently these jerkoffs have confused “accoutability” with “punishment.” Punishment is what the MRM is all about.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Wait, David is one of the most hated feminists on the planet? What’s a guy gotta do to get to first place around here?!!? Sheesh!

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Notice that Suz will use any word but “woman” to describe the protester?

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Suz – has it ever occurred to you that if you said anything the MRM disagreed with, they would make the same threats against you? They would be right there with the rape and murder threats against you. Do you really not understand that it isn’t just the strawman version of feminism they hate, it’s women in general?

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

I’d also like to note the irony of Elam, JTO and GWW whining about being held accountable by reddit for their open attempt to dox the woman in question. We can’t go holding a man accountable for something he does to a female right?

Jayem Griffin
8 years ago

@cloudiah: Nonetheless, I feel like that distinction merits a plaque or something. Maybe we should get him a cake.

driversuz
driversuz
8 years ago

“you want this woman to apologize for existing in public.

“Existing.” That’s what you call it.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

How about a cake and a kitten?

http://youtu.be/Pe50Bmk3xfs

cloudiah
8 years ago

@Jayem, I was thinking of getting one of our silly fake MRM posters made up into a big banner he could hang from his apartment window to confuse his neighbors.

cloudiah
8 years ago

So the proper punishment for a “girl” using bad language in earshot of a boy’s tender ears is to receive rape threats, preferably directed against her real identity.

MRAs are really some fragile little flowers, aren’t they? I’ve actually been assaulted on picket lines and at demos; my friend had his arm broken by cops at a union rally. We didn’t lose our shit like PaulE and JohntheAngryOtter.

What would have happened if the civil rights movement was made up of such tender souls? It’s really quite sad.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Suz:oh right, my bad. She should be punished for having the unholy temerity of running her mouth on public towards a man while female. You are so right.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Suz: what are you going to do when you step out of line and the MRM boys send the threats your way? Since they’re such delicate flowers, it’s not out of the realm of possibility. You’re only tolerated by then because so far you say the right things. You do know this, don’t you?

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