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abortion creepy evil women markymark men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny MRA reactionary bullshit

We’ve Reached a New Low in Misogynistic Self-Righteousness

The kitties are not impressed with your argument, Mr. Anonymous
The kitties are not impressed with your argument, Mr. Anonymous

So our excitable old friend MarkyMark (not the actor-singer) just put up a not-very-original rant of the “women are worse than Hitler because of abortion” variety. More interesting than his post — which is frankly not very interesting — is this comment from an anonymous fellow that takes misogynistic self-righteousness to a whole new (low) level:

This is one of the reasons that I use women for my convenience. They can kill with impunity – nothing I do to them comes close to that level of evil. So they are for my pleasure, then I ditch them although I do come back sometimes. (They aren’t very bright which is what makes it workable.)

Yep: He’s not just a self-righteous prick; he’s self-righteous about being a prick.

I can only hope his own “evil” is mostly of the “slept with a woman and didn’t call her back” sort — or is just imaginary internet boasting —  because his “logic” could pretty much justify anything short of violent murder.

 

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Evito
Evito
7 years ago

I truly don’t understand how people (not just MRAs, surprisingly) can equate things like World War 2, the Holocaust or similarly horrible losses of life to abortion. It’s as though they honestly believe that women are all having illegal 3rd trimester abortions…or just having them for the hell of it.

Thankfully, I’ve never gotten pregnant but that’s because my lover is infertile. I have known women who have had abortions due to medical complications…and one due to rape. It gets me so f***ing pissed when people say “you can’t get pregnant from rape” or “even though it was a rape baby, the woman has a duty to carry it” or (my favorite) “Feminists and Wiccans purposefully have abortions since it’s legal sacrifice to their Goddess”.

Really, guys? Really?

I wish people didn’t have to get abortions…but so long as the procedure is done before there is a heartbeat, I really can’t say that it’s bad. Even for the complicated times when there IS a heartbeat, I understand that circumstances may have changed…Regardless of my own views, I’d never try to get abortion illegalized.

I guess that’s the difference between myself and politicians.

Karalora
Karalora
7 years ago

Notice that whether the individual woman in question has had an abortion is irrelevant. She could have an abortion, therefore she is subhuman scum.

MKlein
MKlein
7 years ago

I’d never heard the one about Wiccans…I know there’s a way to parody that belief and make it funny/make fun of people who think that, but I’m too offended and pissed off to think of it right now.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

MarkyMark is my favorite. That man is truly out where the buses don’t run, bless his heart.

I call bullshit on his commenter. Typical MRA projection and wish fulfillment.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Oh, and MarkyMark is totally wrong about other species not killing their offspring. Very, very wrong.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

If they weren’t, then politicians wouldn’t be deathly afraid of doing anything that could be even remotely construed as infringing on what is euphemistically called “a woman’s right to choose”. No matter how you slice it, politicians are deathly afraid to do anything about abortion.

Really, MarkyMark? Then explain all those personhood bills and other restrictive abortion legislation that conservatives are trying like hell to pass.

blitzgal
7 years ago

Some asshole made the same drive-by comment over at Pharyngula in the discussion thread about the anniversary of the Lepine killings in Canada. It’s definitely one of their talking points now — violence against women doesn’t matter because abortion.

Also, I just recently discovered grumpy cat! She is so cute!!

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I wish people didn’t have to get abortions…but so long as the procedure is done before there is a heartbeat, I really can’t say that it’s bad. Even for the complicated times when there IS a heartbeat, I understand that circumstances may have changed…Regardless of my own views, I’d never try to get abortion illegalized.

There’s heartbeat in week five. I’m pretty certain most abortions occur when the heart is already pretty well-developed.

I can’t see why the heart would be morally relevant though. To me, the interesting thing when it comes to killing is whether the thing in question is capable of consciousness (I’m not meaning self-awareness or anything fancy like that, just having experiences, feelings etc). There’s a Swedish professor, MD and medical researcher called Hugo Lagercrantz who has fetal development as his particular field of expertise, particularly the development of the brain. He argues that a fetus can’t be conscious before week 25. This is because the development of synapses doesn’t speed up until week 20, and approximately at week 25, there are enough synapses for allowing the brain to process information. Before week 20, the fetus has loads of rapidly dividing brain cells, but they aren’t really connected to each other. The fetus has bodily reactions to various stimuli WAY before week 25, but Lagercrantz’s argument is that it can’t really experience anything until the brain is capable of processing some information that comes in from the body.

I’ve never seen an anti-abortionist contradict his statements about brain development. What anti-abortionists do point out, over and over again, his how early there’s heart beat, and how early various bodily reactions to stimuli can be detected. But I don’t see why this would be morally relevant.

Anyway, as I actually argued in a magazine a while ago, an anti-abortionist who truly believe that abortion is murder and that it’s more important to prevent abortions than respecting people’s bodily integrity, should seriously argue for mandatory sterilisation of all boys. If everyone gets to donate sperm first, the human species could still reproduce through artificial insemination. That way, we would have no unwanted pregnancies in the first place, and therefore no abortions. We know that people still have LOTS of abortions in countries where they are banned, so anyone who’s concerned about the poor babies should be prepared to embrace way more drastical measures than merely banning abortions.

Anti-abortionists who go “NO WAY” at the thought of mandatory sterilisation should seriously think again, and consider whether they’re really concerned about the poor babies or whether they just want to punish slutty women.

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

Dvärghundspossen, that sounds like some really interesting research, do you have any links to articles about it or the paper itself? Less to read myself (I wouldn’t understand it) but more to use as evidence for when arguing with anti-choice nutjobs.

Also, I love how loads of MRA’s are anti-abortion, but won’t countenance the idea that they be held responsible for the offspring they help to create. You can’t have it both ways bubba, if you’re going to insist that pregnancies be carried to term, wanted or not, then you need to cough up for the kids upkeep once it’s born.

Here’s a though MRA’s, keep abortion safe, legal and easily accessible and guess what? Fewer poor put upon menz being forced to pay child support by the feminazi rigged courts!

blitzgal
7 years ago

Also, I love how loads of MRA’s are anti-abortion, but won’t countenance the idea that they be held responsible for the offspring they help to create. You can’t have it both ways bubba, if you’re going to insist that pregnancies be carried to term, wanted or not, then you need to cough up for the kids upkeep once it’s born.

Yeah, don’t you just love that disconnect? It’s all part of the patriarchal notion that women and children are the property of the head of household. Women can’t make decisions about their bodies, because they aren’t people — they are possessions. Only men can decide to accept or deny their offspring.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Off topic (when am I not!), but Suzanne Venker has written a follow-up to The War on Men. Basically, since men like to hunt and kill, this is why women should let their husbands drive the car.

Here’s what we know: Females, in general, are nurturing and relational beings. They like to gather and nest and take care of people. They like to commiserate with other females – a lot. That’s why girls can talk for hours on end. It’s why more women stay home with their children than men. It’s why the teaching and caregiving professions are still heavily female. Not every single woman in the world falls into this category, but that doesn’t make the generalization any less true.

Males, on the other hand – in general – are loners. They’re content to mill about in their man caves. They like to hunt. They like to build things and kill things. If you don’t have a son, this may sound strange. But again, that doesn’t make it untrue – nor does the fact that not every single man in the world is like this. Men also take pride in caring for their families. They can’t carry babies or nurse them, but they can provide for them. So let them.

Karalora
Karalora
7 years ago

They’re not opposed to abortion in principle; they just hate that it’s women who get to decide whether it happens or not.

MKlein
MKlein
7 years ago

Btw, totally off-topic, but I just found out Grumpy Cat’s owners actually named him/her “‘Tard.” After “tartar sauce” (riiiiiiight). So I refer to shim online as Bart the Grumpy Cat for anti-ableist re-naming purposes (don’t ask why Bart, it’s a long and stupid tale). So if anyone wants to do that too, with “Bart” or some other alternate cat name they select.

aworldanonymous
7 years ago

Is there some way I can not have to share a planet with people like this anymore, because it’s starting to get to the point where I just kind of want to leave, and go to mars or some shit like that. The fact that this is still tolerated in our society, nay lauded because of “freedom of speech” is deplorable, and I’m really starting to reach my wit’s end.

blitzgal
7 years ago

Apparently the owner works at Red Lobster and her 10 year old daughter named her Tardar Sauce. I also cringed when I saw the spelling. It could have been a good teaching moment for the kid to explain why tard isn’t nice. Or they could have just spelled it Tartar Sauce.

blitzgal
7 years ago

Males, on the other hand – in general – are loners. They’re content to mill about in their man caves. They like to hunt. They like to build things and kill things. If you don’t have a son, this may sound strange. But again, that doesn’t make it untrue – nor does the fact that not every single man in the world is like this. Men also take pride in caring for their families. They can’t carry babies or nurse them, but they can provide for them. So let them.

Okay, beyond the fact that it’s utter bullshit that one sex of a species would be social creatures while the other sex of the species are not (protip: all human beings are social creatures), WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH DRIVING A CAR?!

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

Off topic (when am I not!), but Suzanne Venker has written a follow-up to The War on Men. Basically, since men like to hunt and kill, this is why women should let their husbands drive the car.

And I keep telling my husband that when I’ve had my driver’s license for five years and is legally allowed to train someone else to drive, I’m gonna teach him so he can get a license too, but he thinks it’s really comfortable that I’m always the one driving…

sidestinkappleeye
7 years ago

I’m still confused as to how if I provide for my children, I’m stopping their father from doing so.

lauralot89
7 years ago

Does he actually think women are gleeful about abortions? That we’re all just waiting around for the pregnancy test to read positive so we can scream HOORAH I GET TO KILL ANOTHER ONE, LET’S HOPE THE FETUS IS MALE? I’m pretty sure that has never happened in the history of anything.

MKlein
MKlein
7 years ago

I have this idea of a man with a giant spear or something leaning out a car window and chasing a woolly mammoth or giraffe or something.
Although in that context, it would actually be way safer to let the woman drive (not even getting into why the man has to be the one with the spear), because driving while trying to spear something seems really unsafe.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Anti-abortionists who go “NO WAY” at the thought of mandatory sterilisation should seriously think again, and consider whether they’re really concerned about the poor babies or whether they just want to punish slutty women.

DINGDINGDING

Ditto to antiabortionists against birth control.

Ditto to antiabortionists against socialized medicine.

Ditto to antiabortionists against sex ed.

AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM ARE CONSISTENTLY AGAINST ALL THESE THINGS.

(I know. Trust me, I know.)

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

@Historophilia: He says a bit of it in this article http://www.karolinska.se/upload/Webbsektionen/Tema%20Hj%C3%A4rna/Hj%C3%A4rnans%20utveckling.pdf (in Swedish), and writes much more about it in his book “i barnets hjärna” (in the brain of the child). I don’t know if it can be found in English… Here’s his English website: http://ki.se/ki/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=10740&a=21337&l=en

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

@Howard:

Anti-abortionists who go “NO WAY” at the thought of mandatory sterilisation should seriously think again, and consider whether they’re really concerned about the poor babies or whether they just want to punish slutty women.

DINGDINGDING

Ditto to antiabortionists against birth control.

Ditto to antiabortionists against socialized medicine.

Ditto to antiabortionists against sex ed.

AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM ARE CONSISTENTLY AGAINST ALL THESE THINGS.

(I know. Trust me, I know.)

At the VERY VERY LEAST any anti-abortionist should campaign for free condoms in automats at every street corner and free birth control pills and norplants for all women who want them… Seriously, such a scheme would lower the abortion rate drastically, even though abortions would still happen time to time.

pecunium
7 years ago

At the VERY VERY LEAST any anti-abortionist should campaign for free condoms in automats at every street corner and free birth control pills and norplants for all women who want them… Seriously, such a scheme would lower the abortion rate drastically, even though abortions would still happen time to time.

That would require abortion to be the real issue they cared about.

What they are against is women being autonomous creatures; i.e. human beings like men.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

@Pecunium, Dvärghundspossen

Exactly. I recently went a few rounds on abortion with a very dear family member who is, um, highly placed in the antiabortion movement.

It kept coming back to these inconsistencies. And ultimately there was no answer they could give me on those. Nothing.

clairedammit
clairedammit
7 years ago

Damn this thread is moving fast.

Men can encourage a woman to get an abortion. They can go with her. They can help pay for it. Men can also be the doctors who perform an abortion. MEN ARE EVIL TOO.

Do you think our buddy likes the word “vlie” so much because it’s an anagram of evil? Just a stray thought.

katz
7 years ago

I don’t think giving a car to someone hardwired to hunt and kill sounds like a smart idea at all.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

Have you read the else-worlds story “Superman Red Son” where Superman becomes leader of the communist party and uses his superpowers for taking over the world? You know, I’ve NEVER done any such thing! And I NEVER EVER WILL! Promise! And the fact that I don’t use superpowers to take over the world CLEARLY shows what a good and morally superior person I am!

People born without wombs bragging about never having had an abortion and never gonna get one is sort of like that.

clairedammit
clairedammit
7 years ago

They like to build things and kill things.

The men in my house not only don’t like to kill things, they don’t eat things other people have killed. And all of us like to build and make things. For me, it’s food, furniture, and computers, for my spouse, it’s cars and bicycles, for my kid it’s bicycles, computers and sometimes food. Making things is what we do. I have never woken up in the morning and said “What am I going to nurture today?”

They can’t carry babies

Men carry babies all the time. They don’t gestate fetuses. Words matter!

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Random kitty posting – a postman who blogs about the kitties he sees on his rounds. http://streetmog.blogspot.co.uk/

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
7 years ago

Here’s what we know: Females, in general, are nurturing and relational beings. They like to gather and nest and take care of people.

They like to commiserate with other females – a lot. That’s why girls can talk for hours on end.

I cannot deny my enjoyment of ranting with my friends. Especially at bubblefolk like this.

It’s why more women stay home with their children than men. It’s why the teaching and caregiving professions are still heavily female.

And this has nothing to do with the fact that nearly every little FAAB in the western world has a baby dolly. Nothing at all. Nope.

Not every single woman in the world falls into this category, but that doesn’t make the generalization any less true.

GENERALISATIONS APPLY TO EVERYBODY. A ‘TRUE’ GENERALISATION THAT DOESN’T APPLY TO EVERYBODY IT IS GENERALISING IS EITHER UNTRUE OR NOT A GENERALISATION.

WORDS MEAN THINGS.

Males, on the other hand – in general – are loners.

Then what the fuck is a sociable men? An outlier? Wow, look at all these thousands of outliers I see every day!

They’re content to mill about in their man caves. They like to hunt. They like to build things and kill things. If you don’t have a son, this may sound strange.

It does sound strange. Not because I don’t have a son, but because I like to mill about in my nerdcave, hunt things, ‘kill’ things (video games), and build things. I am a lot of things. I am not a man.

But again, that doesn’t make it untrue – nor does the fact that not every single man in the world is like this. Men also take pride in caring for their families. They can’t carry babies or nurse them, but they can provide for them. So let them.

Yeah, most of the dads I know are completely soppy about their kids. But not all men are dads, same as not all women are mums, and not all non-binary people are [informal form of parent, holes in the English language, drive truck]. And non-men having jobs and reproductive rights doesn’t prevent willing parents from being parents, ffs.

Also, Venker? WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT WORDS MEANING THINGS?!

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
7 years ago

Blitzgal–I think that “women are social, men solitary” is not a bad description of elephant life, but there is no way it applies to humans. Nobody in anthropology has ever seriously thought that humans have been anything else but group-living social animals since we split from chimpanzees and bonobos (also group-living social animals). If human evolution has changed anything it is probably our ability to live in larger and larger groups.

Also, if humans were like elephants, we wouldn’t marry, period, and women and children would live in matriarchal family groups headed by our eldest female relative, and men would be forced out of their home at adulthood where women would never leave.

TLDR–Humans are not really like elephants.

Wetherby
Wetherby
7 years ago

(They aren’t very bright which is what makes it workable.)

I feel about MarkyMark and his friends’ repeated claims about women’s intelligence much the same way as I do about white supremacists who suggest that the perfect embodiment of “the master race” is a shaven-headed, knuckle-dragging troglodyte.

blitzgal
7 years ago

Interesting; I thought even male elephants sometimes live with other males and sometimes live alone, depending on the species.

leftwingfox
7 years ago

Basically, since men like to hunt and kill, this is why women should let their husbands drive the car.

If that were true, the world would look like this. (TW: video game vehicular mayhem)

leftwingfox
7 years ago

And yeah, “animals don’t kill their babies” shows a pretty spectacular level of cluelessness about the animals world. Infanticide is natural and rampant in the animals world, ’cause gametes are cheap, and babies are expensive. Even Exodus noted the punishment for causing a miscarriage was financial compensation, but any other injury was eye for eye, tooth for tooth, LIFE FOR LIFE. (Exodus 21:22-25).

That we allow women to choose to bring children into the world when they want to is a very good thing that reduces suffering for everyone.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
7 years ago

He’d probably be fine with abortion if men had the right to force women they knocked up to get one. Guys like him are just pissed that women have more control (power) in this situation.

Kakanian
Kakanian
7 years ago

>And yeah, “animals don’t kill their babies” shows a pretty spectacular level of cluelessness about the animals world.

I’ve watched Grizzley Man. It’s kinda harrowing to see somebody who held that to be true being shown that he was wrong.

judgybitch
7 years ago

I don’t understand the objection to calling abortion “killing a baby”. Of course you are! So what? A woman’s bodily integrity MUST come first. We sanction the use of deadly force in lots of different ways in our society. Abortion is just one. Even if you ARE waltzing in for a just for funsies third trimester abortion (which obviously has happened NEVER), it’s YOUR body. You can do whatever you want to it.

We would never condone forced kidney transplants, no matter how many lives we might save. We can’t force women to use their bodies to save someone else’s life. Even if that someone is a baby.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

Anti choicers hate abortion because they think it allows “sluts” to escape their punishment for sex. That’s why they pretend that married women don’t get abortions, because in their worldview, married sex is authorized and good. That’s also why they pretend rape doesn’t cause pregnancy, because then they couldn’t blame the victim for being impregnated against her will. That’s the whole logic behind Akin’s “legitimate rape” comment.

This is the same reason they hate the Gardasil vaccine. They want cervical cancer to be a punishment for women having sinful sex.

There is another type of anti choicer that wants to adopt a baby, but the process is too costly and difficult for them. Instead of blaming the red tape, they blame people that get abortions. I guess in their view, pregnant girls “owe” them their fetus, and the body of the girl is their own personal baby factory. Yuck.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

I don’t understand the objection to calling abortion “killing a baby”

It’s not a “baby,” you twit.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Ruby, honey, the “it’s OK for men to be violent to women because abortion” logic is pretty much the same as your logic about prison rape. So maybe you should sit this one out.

The whole “men just aren’t social” rant is particularly lulzy after Bob’s endless rants about how women shouldn’t be allowed to leave relationships because it hurts men in the other thread. If men as a group were cool with living their lives without companionship, Bob would not be that upset. However, men, like woman, are social creatures, so men often get lonely without companionship.

(Note that this does not excuse Bob’s unfortunate behavior.)

Also this whole thing about how women are wired to nurture and men aren’t and blah blah is a perfect excuse to post links to one of the few reality TV shows that I’ve ever enjoyed. Basically, give a bunch of young boy or girl bands some kids to take care of and watch what happens. It’s called Hello Baby, and it’s hilarious.

(This one features a boy band, but they’ve done the same thing with all-girl bands in the past, and the girls weren’t initially any better at it. The season with this particular boy band is fully subtitled though.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

LOL, wrong link. This one.

Also, the reason we don’t call a fetus a baby is that words mean things, and if it can breathe on its own and crawl around it’s a baby, not a fetus.

Shaenon
7 years ago

If you have a child who likes to kill things, you probably want to discourage that even if that child has a penis.

Amnesia
Amnesia
7 years ago

I think before any pro-life vagina-lacking politician is allowed to vote on vagina-haver’s reproductive health issues, they should have to wear a sympathy belly for several months and experience contractions like the guy in this video.

If they refuse to go through with it, they don’t get to vote on said issues. Think that’s misandrist? Please. Most people don’t seem to have a problem with expecting vagina-havers to go through the experience at least once, and what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, amirite?

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
7 years ago

Oh, and MarkyMark is totally wrong about other species not killing their offspring. Very, very wrong.

It’s a long running joke between my mom and I that if she gets upset she’ll eat me like many rodents do when threatened. Creeps me the fuck out.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Neglecting all the other bull in the argument, it doesn’t hold for a very obvious reason: if this were true, trans women would be idolized, and not even more likely to be attacked.

Also, AHAHAHAHA about the whole “other creatures don’t kill their young.” Yeah, you’d like to think that, wouldn’t you?

Inurashii tumblred a post about a pro-lifer giving up on the movement. Let me see if I can post the link without getting moderated…

judgybitch
7 years ago

It’s not a baby? Semantics. Why not call it a baby? Would you tell a woman who has miscarried a much wanted child that she didn’t lose a baby? Would you tell someone whose child strangled themselves with their own umbilical cord (tragically, not that unusual) that they didn’t lose a baby?

Of course not. Unwanted babies are fetuses. Wanted babies are babies. They’re actually all babies. Why not just straight up declare the power to determine life and death over babies? And to be clear, I 100% support the right of women to decide where, when, how and under what circumstances another person gets to use their body for survival. But it IS a person.

You can sidestep the whole abortion is about power debate by saying, well, yeah! DUH!

WordSpinner
WordSpinner
7 years ago

blitzgal–you are probably right. I’d heard that even if the male elephants don’t live together in the kind of close groups that the women do that they do have some kind of social structure. I was just arguing that social women / loner men is a reasonable social structure, just not one that looks anything like humans.

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