You might think that Pickup Artists, dudes obsessed with sexing up the young fertile lasses, would be huge fans of contraceptives – which, after all, are what makes their particular lifestyle possible. But some prominent PUAs are about as enthusiastic about contraception as a Pope.
In the case of the charming fellow who calls himself Heartiste, I mean this literally. In a recent posting, he quotes approvingly from Pope Paul VI’s 1968 Humanae Vitae dissing contraceptives for allegedly demeaning the women that use them. Paul suggested that contraception may cause men to
lose respect for the woman and, no longer caring for her physical and psychological equilibrium, may come to the point of considering her as a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion.
I’m no Pope, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work that way.
Heartiste, for his part, embraces and extends this line of reasoning, adding in some of that Alpha-Beta-Schmeta nonsense that manosphereians seem to regard as cutting edge science.
[A]s cheap contraceptives silently and subtly move men toward devaluing women, so too does the technology move women toward devaluing beta males, those bitter losers in the sexual market (note: I did not say marriage market or child market) for whom contraceptives, coupled with female economic self-sufficiency, have rendered them practically superfluous as primetime sexual partners.
The mass-produced condom and the Pill have freed men from feeling obligation for women as much as they have freed women to regularly and blithely pursue what was historically risky sex with caddish alpha males on the make.
The contraceptive is, in practice, a female hypergamy facilitator.
Yep, that’s right: contraceptives are the tickets to the mythical Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel.
But poor Heartiste has impaled himself on the horns of a dilemma. He’s got a good anti-woman rant going, but there’s just one problem with it: he’s devoted his life to becoming one of those Alpha Assholes that contraceptive-using women purportedly cannot resist riding.
It’s funny for me to write this, because contraceptives have, in fact, been very very good to me. I did a back of the envelope calculation and figured that my aggregate sex life would have been truncated by 90% if contraceptives were prohibitively expensive, unreliable and hard to get. A world in which women had to grapple with real, palpable fears of STDs, pregnancy and subsequent abandonment is, not to put too fine a point on it, a really shitty world for womanizers and serial monogamists and uncomplicated lovers of the art of seduction itself. I imagine I’d have to *gasp* start promising marriage or some such claptrap to any woman I wanted to bang, just to loosen her up enough to unhook her bra.
Spoken like a true asshole.
Oh, but don’t worry, Heartiste isn’t going to stop attacking sex-having women as one of the harbingers of “the cultural and technological juggernaut that hastens, if it is not the sole cause of, the death of Western civilization.”
Indeed, Heartiste almost seems to relish the ironies of his position, as it allows him to spew forth some of the silliest purple prose you’re ever going to find outside the pages of bad romance novels (or comments from our friend Steele):
Here I am, standing at the edge of the abyss, pointing into its bowels like a histrionic jester, leading the ignorant and the deluded to peer into the void and imploring them — no, more precisely taunting them — to heed my warning of their desolate future… and still I cavort insouciantly along its lip, secretly relieved that no one will seriously weigh my prophecies.
Well, at least he’s right about that “histrionic jester” bit.
Last I checked, Heartiste’s post had spawned 450 comments. I can’t bring myself to look through them to see what further horrors can be found there.
EDITED TO ADD: You should all be aware that our lovely Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel illustration is available in t-shirt form! As is the Mammoth! And a delightful Cupcake as well! And you’re in luck! Zazzle is having another one-day 40% off sale on T-shirts! Click here to go to the Man Boobz Zazzle store. Use the code 12DAILYDEAL8. Oh, and in a lovely irony, the profits go to Planned Parenthood!
Steele: Certainly and without a doubt; nonetheless, it’s irrelevant and a derailing tactic. Indeed – are you saying this excuses the coming wave of violence against straight white men?
Want to lay a bet? 1,000 bucks, in escrow, that no such thing takes place in the next ten years?
Howard: This is why you’re a hate movement of one, Steele. Because the only violence that matters to you is violence against you, and you can handily excuse the rest.
Not evem that. All he cares about is the violence he imagines might be going to happen, someday.
Mikhael Varpole anti-manboobz Torvus Butthorn Steele (just to remind people of the arc of your presence):
You are, not to put too fine a point on it, a dolt, a moron, an ignoramus, a clabbermouthed, clodpated, pudding-brained, lackwit. Your entire value in a conversation is as that of the rock in a cauldron of stone soup; inedible, indigestible, in the way and pointless; except insofar as you inspire others to bring things of merit to the table.
Let’s recap your argument (not just in this thread, but the very core of your position):
1: Any statement made by any person who calls themself a feminist is something all feminists are accountable for.
2: All feminists are accountable for all extrapolations from such positions.
3: If an MRA should say something violent, or praise; or excuse/justify someone elses violent acts/statements, that doesn’t count.
3a: That some member of the MRM makes a horrid claim doesn’t mean anyone else in the MRM condones them, or their views.
3b: Any “condemnation: means such views are anathema, even if the speaker is still held to be a seminal, or influential, figure in the MRM. Any person who commits an atrocity; who happens to quote/cite them isn’t to be considered a fellow traveller of the MRM (see Anders Brievik).
That’s fucked up. It is, however, completely in keeping with the two central tenets of the MRM.
1: Women are to blame for everything.
2:It’s not my fault.
Both of these are wrong.
What makes the outliers of feminism different from the MRM is that:
We own our outliers. We don’t pretend to repudiate the extremists. We say we disagree with them, and we detail what we dislike in their views, but we don’t pretend they aren’t part of the overall arc of feminist thought (well, that and we don’t hate men, the way the MRM hates women. We hate the systems that patriarchy has created; and are angry with the people who perpetuate them; there is a difference).
You don’t. You pretend to. You mouth the words, “I condemn him”, and make grandiloquent statements such as, “He is dead to me,” but the moment a Tom Martin, or a Paul Elam comes back to bash on women in a “decent” way, you are all buddy-buddy again.
That’s how you can look (if you did) at Nobinayamu’s list of links and say, “they are wrong” and still call me a liar when I say “The Movement” celebrates Marc Lepine.
You are in denial. “The Movement” hates women. You are in it, ergo; at some level, you hate women. It may”only” be you hate them being able to be independent. It doesn’t matter.
It’s why Ella left you (and yes, I do think there was an Ella, and I do think the hatred of women in the MRM is why she left you).
I mean it when I say you are soaking in misogyny. You wallow in it. You use it to excuse your failures. It’s not that you are too lazy to improve your writing, it’s that “Women kept me from succeeding”.
It’s not true. You were too lazy to get good at it.
I can really only see two explanations for your behavior.
1: You are actually too stupid to read what you say, or to read the arguments and links provided by others.
2: You are a lying sack of shit who does read what he says, and the arguments and links provided by others, and ignores them in pursuit of your hatred of women.
For your sake I hope it’s that you are stupid.
Well, I was going to comment, but I always find it so hard to follow pecunium. Pecunium, y u hav to be so damned eloquent and poignant all the time?
Steele –
I’m not sure if someone else has already replied to you or not, but you asked for someone to point out an MRA who has praised Lepine. Besides my father, here is a pretty famous MRA blogger:
http://bobstruth.blogspot.com/2009/12/happy-marc-lepine-day.html
ah, Nobinayamu did beat me to it – sorry, Nobinayamu!!
AND, INDEED, VYLE, FEMINISTS,!,!,!!!!
Oh my LORD, that was fantastic. I’m so sad I missed watching the super villain monologuing in real time. Holy hell.
Well, Rustypants has finally done it, and David’s sent him to go sit in the corner.
Good riddance.
As for Troll of the Year, I’m torn between “penguin whores” and “got-born privilege”.
TOTY is MINE, ’cause Im theh leetest Troll evah. If you not understand why, I’ll provide some splaining when. I’ve time.
@Dualityheart: I’m so sorry. That’s just awful.
By the way, I just finished reading Redshirts, by John Scalzi. It was hilarious, though definitely not my usual sort of book.
But the thing is, the whole thing is largely about Disposability. About wasteful deaths, about caring about life.
And with just a little MRA perspective tweaking, largely about male disposability. (although, obviously, y’know, not, since it’s not a real thing)
But I think if Steele didn’t know that JS is actively aware of Straight White Male privilege that he might just be idolizing that clearthinking savior of humanity right now.
Laughoutloud at the characteristics of an MRA i mean histrionic jester:
Histrionic Characteristics
Exhibitionist behaviour
Constant seeking of reassurance or approval
Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval
Pride of own personality and unwillingness to change, viewing any change as a threat
Inappropriately seductive appearance or behaviour
Using somatic symptoms (of physical illness) as a means of garnering attention
A need to be the centre of attention
Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification
Rapidly shifting emotional states that may appear superficial or exaggerated to others
Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are
Jester: A jester, or fool, was a historical person employed to entertain a ruler…
And seeing as feminists apparently rule the world (as well as some lizards and Jay-Z’s baby), he is here to entertain us with his stupidity? Sounds about right…
Thread was necro’ed, I read last page, and found THIS —
“It’s why Ella left you…”
Why was I not informed of this completely and utterly unpredicted turn of events?!
Also, [long eloquent troll smackdown] “that’s fucked up” = excellent, the contrast is perfectly unexpected.
deezers — I get what you were going for, and perhaps you didn’t realize this, but there’s a bit of a debate in psychology about how valid the diagnosis of histrionic personality disorder actually is. It’s far more commonly diagnosed in women, while, I think it was, narcissist personality disorder is diagnosed in men. I can’t find it now but there was a study using the same description of symptoms and behavior, with a female name and a male name, and the female named description was Dx’ed histrionic a whole lot more often than the male named description. I think it might’ve been this but that study’s behind a pay wall.
Can’t wait until this comes out. This will hopefully be a huge blow to radical feminism over time. We’ll teach boys the dangers of radical feminism as they grow up and instruct them to start using new methods of male birth control as they hit puberty. Men will have families when they want to on their own terms and have a hidden birth control method at their disposal. The horrible social landscape we have now could change and leave less options on the table for radical feminists and their co-conspirators to impose their perversions upon us.
Congrats, you’re a necromancer!
rty23: As a radical feminist, I vote with both hands for male birth control and for men to be able to have families when they want.
However, “hidden birth control”? That’s grounds for an annulment today, because misleading your spouse about is fraud.
As for having families on your own terms — don’t men already do that? Fathering a child doesn’t necessarily mean you have a family.
Wouldn’t male birth control just allow me to impose my perversions on the boyfriend with less risk of pregnancy? I’m not going to stop being perverse just because he takes a pill every day. 🙂
(I mean impose in the “Can we do MY perversions instead of yours now?” Jokingly hyperbolic sense. Actual force is only okay with consent!)
Your sexual gratification is none of my business. It’s the radical feminist social agenda that would go down. Hidden birth control for men is beneficial for single men. Married men and women for that matter should be out of the loop. Of course there are people who cheat and of course women who cheat on their husbands and get pregnant would have a harder time having their husband pay for their illegitimate children.
….because the radical feminist social agenda is about forced pregnancies?
I think you’re projecting. HARD.
I am all for male contraception, but I am really interested in how exactly it hurts radical feminism? Sorry, I am having a tough time making the connections and would really appreciate an explanation.
Argenti – I totally missed your last post back when this thread was alive and kicking, sorry! Yeah I did know that, but was just responding to the guys painfully purple prose. I actually used to think it was derived from ‘hustera’, like hysterical and hysterectomy for that reason!
It’s so weird how the same traits or characteristics are viewed so differently, depending on the gender of the person displaying them …
@rty23
How would a guy know his wife’s children were the product of infidelity unless married people are “in the loop” for male birth control.
Sorry you didn’t understand my joke. Sorry, but not surprised.
If radical feminism is about women dominating the world and being in complete and total control of their own lives independently of men, then a hidden form of birth control for men makes that goal more difficult. How? Because women no longer get to decide when and how they have families like many can today.
The pill has underpinned a great deal of feminism’s success. This would change that. Not saying that women can’t do anything they want. I support women doing anything they can do if they want to as much as men (Except for combat where capable women should have their own units).
It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
deezers — no problem, comments on dying threads tend to get lost around here, it’s part of how people think they can get the last word in via necromancy 🙂
As for your previous linguistical misunderstanding, I still can’t convince my mother than hysterectomy is not derived from hysteria as both words are from the Greek hyster / uterus.
And yeah, not just weird, but provably stupid. There was a study all over the place not long ago about résumés with male or females names — research or TA candidates, something like that — the most member able bit of stupid was that *drum roll* they’d pay the application with the female name less. Before MRAs get to this, these were exactly the same applications but with different names.
Damn, too bad I’m going to bed, because Pecunium is going to have a field day with this one — “Except for combat where capable women should have their own units”
Is it full moon or something? The necrothreaders seem to be out and about.