So over on MGTOWforums, the regulars are pondering the age-old question – should these committed women-avoiders deal with their continued desire to stick their penises in the women they’re allegedly avoiding by resorting to prostitutes?
In the midst of a lively discussion on the advantages of “going pro” over trying to pick up a “bar hog,” one regular by the nom de internet Xtc sets forth some thoughts that, for a moment at least, seem to transcend the usual MGTOW crudity and bitterness.
“I don’t think it’s really about sex,” he writes. “I think what a lot of people are looking for is love, respect, and intimacy – which you can’t buy.”
Why, that almost seems like an insight!
Alas, in his very next sentence he spoils the moment by returning to the standard MGTOW narrative of female perfidy:
I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real. It’s sad and sobering, but that’s the way it is.
Thinking that the attention of women validates you as a person collapses once you realise they are attracted to the worst qualities in the worst men.
Thinking that the attention of women equals affection, intimacy, or love – collapses once you realise they will leave you in a second if they sense any weakness or if a BBD [bigger better deal] comes along. Then you’ll realise that the meter was running all the time, whether this was clear at the time or not.
Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good. Once you realise it’s a quack remedy, and the whole thing is a scam, you’re free to spit it out and never partake again.
That leaves you with sex alone, which is really rather easy to come by.
If women really and truly are “attracted to the worst qualities of the worst men,” why aren’t they lining up at these dudes’ front doors?
“So you admit you’re a racist?”
So Islam is a progressive religion and culture that allows for women to have the same rights, responsibilities and freedoms as men?
Bob: “People should not sign up for things they are not capable of pulling off. I wouldn’t agree to go work on an oil rig because that’s not something I think I would enjoy very much.”
Working on an oil rig is a job. Marriage in US is no longer legally a transactional agreement..
Bob, is Islam monolithic? If so, then I am going to assume you lump all Christians in with the Westboro Baptist Church and then ask if you think Christianity is a progressive religion.
For the record, though, I’m an atheist.
You’ve categorized lots of people’s marriages and divorces in nasty ways. What’s the problem now.
P.S.: My great-grandfather owned my great-grandmother. Not formally, but given that she had no legal recourse against anything he subjected her to, it was ownership, alright.
Bob Trollsmith: A great example of grammatical correctness on the mechanical level which nonetheless results in REALLY bad writing, due to high incidence of cliches, and massively hot air over-generalizations, and complete failure to understand the need to substantiate claims with, you know, evidence beyond “grandma and grandpa were happy.”
ALso: the economic benefits from slavery affected much more than the individual rich white male (and female) plantation owners:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0131_030203_jubilee2.html
The reason the UK and the US got to be major world empires was colonialism in all its forms, and especially in the US chattel slavery (the UK benefitted from the trade, but did not create a social institution), which enabled exploitation of natural and human resources from much of the world.
Your privileged ass is sitting on the results of centuries of oppression, Smithtroll.
My grandmother had to marry my grandfather when she was 16 and pregnant with my father (I realized that only when comparing dates of their 50th anniversary and his 50th birthday)–he was a racist, sexist, emotionally abusive shithead.
So, proof that abusive marriages were COMMON IN THE FUCKING PAST.
I must admit, Bob the troll has stamina!
But good grief, the BORING BORING BORING BORINGness of his posts.
Moar entertainment, plz, trolldude.
Also: the crap about what “family” means.
You’re talking about the nuclear family.
It’s only ONE structure of family: there’s the extended family as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_family)
In my experience, the nuclear family as constructed in the US, especially in the wake of WWII, was oppressive, marginalizing, and homphobic (BobTroll, my partner is a woman, just FYI), and I was never so happy as when I got out from under the control of my father (well, let me rephrase that: when he dumped my mother, who took her vows seriously, and dropped out of college to put him through to his PHD–after 25 years of marriage, he dumped her, ran off with a graduate student, and broke all his vows–and a few laws as well, about embezzling, that the university decided not to prosecute). Then a few years later, he dragged her through a Catholic annulment just to put the icing on a cake.
Too bad it happened before she could get financial compensation for the money she sank into his fancy pants degree which results in his nice cushy consulting and his plush retirement, the asshole.
“Bob, is Islam monolithic? If so, then I am going to assume you lump all Christians in with the Westboro Baptist Church and then ask if you think Christianity is a progressive religion.
For the record, though, I’m an atheist.”
Can you point out to me a Muslim country where women enjoy the same rights, responsibilities and freedoms as men? Can you point out to me a Muslim country where women have equal standing with men? i wasn’t aware that we no longer have separation of church and state in this country and it is only through sheer Christian benevolence that women in this country have equal standing with men.
He has stamina, and a real talent for goalpost shifting.
(I am so glad I finally re-found that .gif by Myoo — I thought I had bookmarked it, but hadn’t!)
Try reading about Ancient Egypt. One of the most stable, conservative societies in world history, not to mention one of the most religious, seems to have had no legal or religious arrangements about marriage other than regulating how the property was divided if the couple decided to split (the woman was entitled to a third). It was a private arrangement, and it was accepted that coupled would not necessarily be together for life. This in a society that pushed the idea of marriage, too. Don’t project modern Western notions onto all of history.
Oh, and on the topic of violence: “Intimate partner violence is responsible for more ill-health and premature death in Victorian women under the age of 45 than any other of the well-known preventable risk factors, including high blood pressure, obesity and smoking.”
http://www.vichealth.vic.gov.au/Programs-and-Projects/Freedom-from-violence/Intimate-Partner-Violence.aspx
That’s in Australia, somewhere one would generally consider a decent place to live if one’s a woman …
In a legal sense, he did. He may well have been a benevolent owner or disagreed with the concept of ownership, but he still had rights over her.
How does he know that his grandparents married for love and were super happy anyway? That’s what I thought about my grandparents… until I read my grandmother’s memoirs.
Also how hilarious is it that in Bob’s world:
Islam is oppressive because women have no rights in marriage.
Western society is bad because women excercise their rights to leave marriages.
TEH WINNAH: t is only through sheer Christian benevolence that women in this country have equal standing with men.
AHAHAHAHHAHAH!
Because, clearly, women are not Christians.
CHRISTIAN BENEVOLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Citation fucking needed: give me one example of Christian benevolence resulting in women having equal standing with men (and, sorry all, be prepared for spamming of links).
I’m taking a break from grading student work to whacking moles, and it feels.so.good.
Bob: My grandparents owned a beagle that got into the coop and ate all their chickens. This proves that all dogs are a threat to animal husbandry.
Manboobzers: That seems overly broad. Dogs are often used to support animal husbandry, like shepherds. Do you have any proof of supporting your assertion?
Bob: You clearly believe dogs SHOULD eat my chickens!
Haha man if there’s one thing that Christian churches supported with all their hearts, it was Second Wave Feminism.
HTML fail, ah well.
First Bob Troll: women’s rights are more protected in secular countries than any theocratic country:
http://flinderssecular.org.au/2012/07/28/womens-rights-secular-countries-vs-theocratic-countries/
And you might say, well, the US is not a theocracy.
I’d say, not yet, but there’s a shitload of white men trying to force it back to a theocracy(which is what some of the founding colonies were).
Under Christianity, rights women had enjoyed in earlier centuries, were removed
Oh, and PS if you claim Islam is the ONLY sexist religion, then yep, you are a racist (yes, it’s a religion, but it’s raced in the US discourse and presented as a monolithic/essentinalist category).
I know my grandmother was not happy in her marriage. She was one of those ladies who never should have had children because she hated having kids. Oddly enough my mom was good at the whole taking care of babies as long as she did not have to actually bare them.
Bob: No Arab countries have evolved past the 15th Century.
Manboobzers: That’s a pretty racist statement.
Bob: Ha! You’re a bunch of Muslims!
“It was women of
the Christian world who started to insist that women should have equal
rights to men.”
@bonbon
Holy shit, so one anecdote has grandparents in a happy marriage, and another has them in an unhappy marriage.
HOW DO I KNOW WHICH GENERALIZATION TO APPLY TO ALL OF HUMANITY I AM SO CONFUSED
Christianity and women’s rights–good and bad
The status of women in Christianity
See, there’s a problem with relying on “benevolence” instead of FUCKING LEGISLATION.
I shall leave the working out of that to you Bob The Smithtroll–your answer will be graded for clarity, originality, and evidence.
@Thinker11235
First, let me apologize. I had actually tried to comment on mgtowforums.com…NOT mgtow.com, so I’m sorry for the mix up.
Secondly, thank you for your reply again. You seem to be a very intelligent and articulate MRA, and so far I agree with everything you’ve said. Perhaps if there were more people like yourself on Mens Rights Reddit and The Spearhead, this site would not exist.
You are the type of MRA I always wanted to discuss topics with…and of course, I got the other kind who enjoys being cruel and misogynistic. I’m off to work now, but I’ll check out your site later.
Have a good day.
-Evito