So over on MGTOWforums, the regulars are pondering the age-old question – should these committed women-avoiders deal with their continued desire to stick their penises in the women they’re allegedly avoiding by resorting to prostitutes?
In the midst of a lively discussion on the advantages of “going pro” over trying to pick up a “bar hog,” one regular by the nom de internet Xtc sets forth some thoughts that, for a moment at least, seem to transcend the usual MGTOW crudity and bitterness.
“I don’t think it’s really about sex,” he writes. “I think what a lot of people are looking for is love, respect, and intimacy – which you can’t buy.”
Why, that almost seems like an insight!
Alas, in his very next sentence he spoils the moment by returning to the standard MGTOW narrative of female perfidy:
I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real. It’s sad and sobering, but that’s the way it is.
Thinking that the attention of women validates you as a person collapses once you realise they are attracted to the worst qualities in the worst men.
Thinking that the attention of women equals affection, intimacy, or love – collapses once you realise they will leave you in a second if they sense any weakness or if a BBD [bigger better deal] comes along. Then you’ll realise that the meter was running all the time, whether this was clear at the time or not.
Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good. Once you realise it’s a quack remedy, and the whole thing is a scam, you’re free to spit it out and never partake again.
That leaves you with sex alone, which is really rather easy to come by.
If women really and truly are “attracted to the worst qualities of the worst men,” why aren’t they lining up at these dudes’ front doors?
Also, if you honestly believe that a significant percentage of women are not to be trusted, then you shouldn’t be dating right now. Not just to protect yourself, but also because that attitude is prejudiced and with it in place you may well end up hurting someone else. Would you want to date someone who considered you inherently untrustworthy?
@LBT, I think that part of the reason that people are engaging Bob may be because they see a little tiny glimmer of hope there.
He’s saying this stuff because he hurts, and the wound is still there and it’s not healed and scarred over. It seems like he sort of understands that he’s coming to these opinions from a wounded place, and while the truths here are harsh, you can see that they’ve been softening over the past few pages.
There’s a possibility that this stuff is reaching him.
RE: Inu
Meh, I was here for most of the whole Al saga. He is still looking for stuff in a really bizarre place. It’d be like if I went to an MRA site raging about being raped by a man and therefore all men are suspect. I mean, if he gets something out of it, fine… but don’t they have like, actual advice sites for that?
Well yeah. I just think it’s why we don’t have ban consensus like we achieved for ole Joe in the other thread.
Hi KittySnide! Thanks for your story.
I have a relationship story kind of like that. I think nearly everyone does. Breakups suck, even when they’re for the best, and they suck even more when you don’t see them coming. Sometimes you could even use therapy after an especially bad one. Bob? Are you still here? We are not your therapists, but maybe you could use one. A real one, not a thread on the internet.
Captain Awkward is always relevant, but sometimes she is extra, extra relevant, with a cherry on top.
Thanks ClaireDammit!
it took me a while to even get to anger because for the first bit I was just so relieved. but I *did* end up going to therapy for a bit because I wanted to make sure I dealt with all the shit I’d internalized during our relationship.
but (and Bob, if you’re still here, take note) when the wounds were still fresh I didn’t seek out a group of strangers and make them listen to all my woes, and I didn’t make huge sweeping generalizations about all men as a result of Kenny’s assholery.
Bob, no one is Mr. Burnsing their hands in glee at your misery or saying “GOOD! IT’S GOOD YOU ARE SAD BECAUSE YOU ARE A BAD BAD MAN.” no one thinks it’s a good thing you were hurt or that you deserve it. what’s frustrating is that you seem to be dealing with your pain in ways that aren’t going to help you heal anytime soon, and you seem to think that because your ex made a choice to end your relationship that that means your entire relationship and connection was false. Those ideas aren’t going to help you heal either.
“Closure” is a myth. As long as you keep thinking that if you could only know “why”, or just have a final “goodbye” conversation, or whatever it is you think you need to move on (whether that means you are single for a while, or you look for another relationship), it’s going to be difficult for you. You’re the only one who can decide to close that chapter in your life and go on to see what’s next for you.
RE: KittySnyde
Pretty tangential, but I kinda shudder whenever I hear closure. There are a good few folks I ran from, and I know they feel bad. Sometimes I feel bad, because they will never, ever understand why I’m gone. Even if I did come back and have a sit down and an explanation (which in at least one case I did, more than once), they won’t understand. All they know is that I’m gone, and that makes them sad.
Thing is though, the whole reason I ran was because the situation was so bad. The idea that someone should feel obligated to return to one, just to soothe the feelings of someone THEY HAVE ALREADY LEFT… it bothers me.
Sometimes people ditch you, and you don’t get to know why. That’s sad, but that’s life.
oh noes! blockquote fail! I am a true boobzer at last
“Thing is though, the whole reason I ran was because the situation was so bad. The idea that someone should feel obligated to return to one, just to soothe the feelings of someone THEY HAVE ALREADY LEFT… it bothers me.”
Thing is, just speaking to my own unique situation, it was not “so bad.” No, I’m not a mind-reader, and I’ve been in other relationships. But I know she would not have stayed as long as she did and gotten as serious as she did if it was “so bad.”
Now of course, it doesn’t matter how well I treated her or tried to be the best possible boyfriend/fiance. If she wanted to leave, and I somehow had the power to make her stay even though she didn’t want to, that’s a prison. That’s control and not love.
People asked me on this thread what I want: to be able to feel secure and comfortable in romantic relationships again. I didn’t say complacent, but secure and comfortable. I know relationships end and nobody can predict the future, but it will never work if you are wracked with paranoia and insecurity. If all relationships such as my last one were that fragile and unpredictable, I’m not so sure I would ever want to be in one again.
Fact not in evidence.
“what’s frustrating is that you seem to be dealing with your pain in ways that aren’t going to help you heal anytime soon, and you seem to think that because your ex made a choice to end your relationship that that means your entire relationship and connection was false. Those ideas aren’t going to help you heal either.”
Relationships in general are legitimately frightening to me now.
Then don’t. Womanity will not weep for your exit from the dating pool.
You can start dating again whenever you feel like it.
re: LBT:
I can understand why “closure” is so important to some people, because in their heads they truly think that the final conversation or explanation or email is going to say exactly what they need to hear to get on with their lives. But I think they’re mistaken for the most part. When I compare my breakup with Kenny to a previous one, in which both of us actively sought closure for MONTHS… I prefer the Kenny “closure” (read: none from him). It was up to me to decide how to work through my hurts and thoughts and up to me to “say goodbye” in a way that meant something *to me* and would help *me* heal, since fuck Kenny, that dude was a jackass.
and you’re right: people leave, people ditch, people get distant, and sometimes you never know why they did. but the worst thing (well, one of the worst things I guess) we can do when that happens is cling to threads of the relationship and say we’ll let go when the person in question does X for us.
Belated welcomes to topaz_grrl and KittySnide! 🙂
Bob is not anywhere near being emotionally healthy enough to be in a relationship. Sorry for the internet diagnosis, but sometimes it’s just so clear. Bob, what you need is therapy. Find yourself one that you like.
And what the rest of us need is more cat gifs.
Has this turned into the persuade Bob to date again thread? Because no, I’m not doing that. Not only does he not seem remotely ready, we are not his therapy group and seriously why does this keep happening? Why do men come here, take over threads to talk about their personal problems, and not realize how not OK that is?
Screwed that up. MORE CAT GIFS!
Bob: you need therapy, not the MRM or this place. It’s not fun, and it’s not necessarily comfortable, but a good therapist can really help you.
*coughpatriarchycough*
seconded.
Unlike that arsehole preacher, we don’t believe there is something wrong with someone if they don’t get married, or stay completely single. In fact we are all for people ignoring societal pressure and doing what makes them happy, as long as they aren’t abusing others to.
Seriously dude, we are the good guys in this situation. Why you’re blaming us for your woes, I have no idea.
We’re nicer than we get credit for, and they have huge, swollen egos. They think all women are just dying to help them out.
Maybe we need to, not ban them, but banish those discussions to the Forums? I don’t know, sometimes it’s not crystal clear to begin with that’s what’s going on. Like Bob started up with just some garden variety “it was better in the old days (when women were property)” and it was quite a while before his “friend’s” relationship came up, and even longer before he admitted that he was his friend, or his friend was him, or whatever.
And now it’s just sad.