So over on MGTOWforums, the regulars are pondering the age-old question – should these committed women-avoiders deal with their continued desire to stick their penises in the women they’re allegedly avoiding by resorting to prostitutes?
In the midst of a lively discussion on the advantages of “going pro” over trying to pick up a “bar hog,” one regular by the nom de internet Xtc sets forth some thoughts that, for a moment at least, seem to transcend the usual MGTOW crudity and bitterness.
“I don’t think it’s really about sex,” he writes. “I think what a lot of people are looking for is love, respect, and intimacy – which you can’t buy.”
Why, that almost seems like an insight!
Alas, in his very next sentence he spoils the moment by returning to the standard MGTOW narrative of female perfidy:
I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real. It’s sad and sobering, but that’s the way it is.
Thinking that the attention of women validates you as a person collapses once you realise they are attracted to the worst qualities in the worst men.
Thinking that the attention of women equals affection, intimacy, or love – collapses once you realise they will leave you in a second if they sense any weakness or if a BBD [bigger better deal] comes along. Then you’ll realise that the meter was running all the time, whether this was clear at the time or not.
Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good. Once you realise it’s a quack remedy, and the whole thing is a scam, you’re free to spit it out and never partake again.
That leaves you with sex alone, which is really rather easy to come by.
If women really and truly are “attracted to the worst qualities of the worst men,” why aren’t they lining up at these dudes’ front doors?
Can I just say how much I love it when Ithiliana has time to play here?
Curse you, failed second blockquote. It should be…
MRM Traits our Bob Troll is exhibiting:
Mansplaining.
Men prefer younger women (ALL men, all the time)
Women dry up as they age after wasting their time and then cannot get married.
Women are completing with each other to get the best catch out of “the pool of men.”
Women have to “leverage” their “prime” years (child bearing and beauty) or ELSE (da da da DUMB).
Oh, yeah, and TEH WINNAH: EVO PSYCH: When you break it down to a basic biological level, men are hard-wired to respond to youth and beauty because of the implications for fertility, while women are hard-wired to respond to strength because of the implications for gathering resources and being the best possible providers for her offspring. We’re not hunter gatherers anymore, but our wiring is basically the same.
Have fun with the squeaky toy, comrades, I’m off to bed!
In general you want somebody who has the same level of emotional maturity and awareness as you.
I don’t think it’s legal for Bob to date that young…
“I’m pretty sure any man who is looking at me and considering whether or not he’s going to get my “prime childbearing and beauty years” is, by definition, very far short of the “best possible man.”
If i want to get married and start a family, I don’t want to date a woman that is too young, because she is a young adult still figuring out who she is and is not ready to take on the adult responsibilities of a long-term relationship. it doesn’t make her a bad person by any means, she’s just at a different stage of life. I can’t be what she wants and needs and vice versa. If I date a woman that is too old, I’m looking at a woman with whom it will be harder to conceive, and the chances of us having a baby with birth defects and abnormalities increases as well. If I decide to date a 38 year old woman, and I’m looking to get married and start a family, it will take time for us to get to know each other, figure out if our values, prioirties and goals line up, and fall in love. I’m looking at probably a 2-3 year courtship before we get married. So she’s likely to be 42 years old before we start trying to conceive. Isn’t it easier to date a younger woman where I don’t feel this pressure to start a family against the clock? It’s not making a moral judgment against younger or older women, I’m just saying that it makes sense I think for me to try and find a woman between the ages of 25-35 that wants the same things out of life that I do.
“I wonder if he realizes that he just implied that men as a group are immature.”
I do think North American men as a group are immature. Women as well.
And the point whooshes right over Bob’s head.
“Men prefer younger women (ALL men, all the time)”
Most men prefer younger women. There are of course exceptions.
Women dry up as they age after wasting their time and then cannot get married.
“Women are completing with each other to get the best catch out of “the pool of men.”
Just as men are competing with each other to get the best catch out of the pool of available women. Everybody interested in romantic relationships wants to secure for themselves the best possible “catch” they can.
“Women have to “leverage” their “prime” years (child bearing and beauty) or ELSE (da da da DUMB).”
Most people do get married. There are very few lifelong bachelors and bachelorettes. Dating is a lot like musical chairs. There are more seats available during a person’s “prime.”
“Women dry up as they age after wasting their time and then cannot get married.”
No, statistically speaking, most people do end up getting married.
I’m not looking for true love. I just want to find the right seat. START THE MUSIC.
The BEST seat, cloudiah. What, haven’t you always wanted to be somebody’s best available chair?
So, let’s examine what Bob has failed to address:
He’s asserted that relationships exist at the mercy of women and that women initiate the majority of breakups and divorce. Now, the part about breakups is baseless bullshit. He’s provided no evidence to support the claim. Many posters have conceded the issue on initiation of divorce, but Bob has completely failed to take any critical examination of those statistics. Women initiate divorce more often than men. Fine. Does it logically follow that this means that all -or even the majority- of women who initiate divorce do so carelessly out of nothing more than boredom?
Bob is big on the “sickness and in health ’til death do us part” aspect of the marriage vows. Statistically, however, men are much more likely to leave and/or divorce women who have been diagnosed with serious illnesses. Bob has not addressed this at all.
When provided with reasons and examples of why women have and do turn down marriage proposals from men whom they care(d) about deeply, Bob has doubled down on stupid and descended into tepid cliches about fraud and “time theft.” Time. Theft.
And, now we’ve hit the evospsych. Was there ever any doubt that this is where we’d end up? Blanket generalizations that ignore the real world dynamics of human interactions and inherent contradictions. Women are chased and it’s an uphill battle for good men to find relationships. But… But! Women are in heavy competition for good men and age out of desirability.
There are never any surprises with these dudes. Never.
Back-pedaling, whiny-ass titty baby bullshit.
But never any surprises.
Then what the fuck are you whining about?
I humbly offer a small antidote to Bob’s stupidity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thief_of_Always
In other news, goalposts still dancing, Bob’s argument still just as dumb and self-centered.
I’m a hard chair. A HARD, HARD CHAIR.
“Women are in heavy competition for good men and age out of desirability.”
it’s a buyer’s market for women. And statistically speaking, most men and women do end up getting married. So it is not true that women “age out of desirability.” Because men are the ones doing the courting and the pursuing, women can and do take a more cavalier approach to relationships. Men are much more pragmatic and rational when it comes to relationships because they can’t afford not to be.
Well, it’s clear that Bob wants to get married and have children. And I, for one, wish him well. He’s just got to find some nice woman between the ages of 25-35 who shares his values and is untainted by the narcissistic rot of modern western culture.
“Then what the fuck are you whining about?”
I am not whining. I am laying out the case that relationships and the formation of said relationships have become needlessly complicated.
It’s a buyer’s market. GET YOUR MEN HALF PRICE.
I knew my partner and I were meant to be when one night, over a romantic dinner, he leaned over, looked deep into my eyes, and whispered, “Sweetie, while as someone over the age of 27, you’re past your prime childbearing and beauty years, you’re still probably fertile enough for a while yet that I figure you’re the best I can reasonably hope to attain.” What more could any gal ask for? *swoons*
You’ve gotta be fucking kidding me. Please provide data based evidence of this claim. In the mean time, would anyone like to hear any of my numerous examples of my guy friends adventures in cavalier dating and relationships? Because I’ve got hundreds.
It doesn’t get much more entitled than directly comparing someone else’s change of heart to a property crime.
Relationships are needlessly complicated. WHY CAN’T I JUST BUY A WOMAN FROM HER FATHER, LIKE IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS?
“In the mean time, would anyone like to hear any of my numerous examples of my guy friends adventures in cavalier dating and relationships? Because I’ve got hundreds.”
If you want to swap anecdotes about how awful men and women both can be, I am prepared to do just that.
You have spent the better part of today whining. Seriously, scroll up.
Relationships have not become “needlessly complicated.” In some parts of the developed world we’ve simply moved beyond obligatory marriage. This obviously terrifies you on some level. I, for one, feel liberated. I am not marrying because I want to leave my parents home, or because I cannot feed and house myself, or because I am afraid of being judged for being single.
I am marrying for love, Passionate, romantic, stable, considerate, caring, deeply felt, love. I am not with him because he makes my life easier. I’m with him because he makes my life better. And the freedom to leave only intensifies the desire to stay.
Oh my god, he’s still here?