So over on MGTOWforums, the regulars are pondering the age-old question – should these committed women-avoiders deal with their continued desire to stick their penises in the women they’re allegedly avoiding by resorting to prostitutes?
In the midst of a lively discussion on the advantages of “going pro” over trying to pick up a “bar hog,” one regular by the nom de internet Xtc sets forth some thoughts that, for a moment at least, seem to transcend the usual MGTOW crudity and bitterness.
“I don’t think it’s really about sex,” he writes. “I think what a lot of people are looking for is love, respect, and intimacy – which you can’t buy.”
Why, that almost seems like an insight!
Alas, in his very next sentence he spoils the moment by returning to the standard MGTOW narrative of female perfidy:
I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real. It’s sad and sobering, but that’s the way it is.
Thinking that the attention of women validates you as a person collapses once you realise they are attracted to the worst qualities in the worst men.
Thinking that the attention of women equals affection, intimacy, or love – collapses once you realise they will leave you in a second if they sense any weakness or if a BBD [bigger better deal] comes along. Then you’ll realise that the meter was running all the time, whether this was clear at the time or not.
Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good. Once you realise it’s a quack remedy, and the whole thing is a scam, you’re free to spit it out and never partake again.
That leaves you with sex alone, which is really rather easy to come by.
If women really and truly are “attracted to the worst qualities of the worst men,” why aren’t they lining up at these dudes’ front doors?
Dude, we have addressed your issue. Speaking of the issue of time wasting, you will be wasting ours if you insist on us repeating ourselves.
Bob, that’s not straw, it’s debris from you moving the goalposts all the time time.
How about we stop allowing Bob to steal our time by no longer responding to him? He’s clearly not going to go away of his own accord.
Sawdust! Those poor goalposts were once noble fixtures worthy of any football pitch, now they look like the mini-Stonehenge set from Spinal Tap.
“Dude, we have addressed your issue. Speaking of the issue of time wasting, you will be wasting ours if you insist on us repeating ourselves.”
No, we haven’t, because you and other posters repeat your assertions that I am advocating women accept marriage proposals from men that cross the low bar of not being derelicts. You have to address the argument I’m making, not the argument that is at your level and that you can manage to cognitively rebut. It is a shame that I am trying to play chess with people that only know how to play checkers.
“Rebut”
I’m in favor of denying further time theft by Bob. I will be invoicing him for 20 Troy oz. of gold for stealing said time.
Bob – I am impressed by your thoughtfulness, as well by as your civility in the face of the noted supercilious jackass Says. It’s certainly true that many partners do not communicate their intentions, or their beliefs adequately; I know this only too well, without going too off-topic. I certainly believe feminism to be a cause; likewise misandry.
Steele, you should keep resting. Sucking up to Bob can’t be good for your fragile state.
That is PRECISELY what you said women should do.
You said NOTHING about love or passion or long-term relationships there, or indeed about having a physical relationship at all. You threw generalisations around (with a nice dash of ageism and sexism) and said straight out that women should be accepting marriage proposals.
Steele, honey, I think you have the vapors. You need more rest.
“So, because men and women are each responsible for 50 percent of any given failing relationship — why are you only talking about the appearance of these male subcultures? Why aren’t you yammering on about the equivalent female subcultures* created by men’s failure to make relationships work that reflect badly on them (and also women)?”
Because in western societies men pursue women and rarely is it the other way around. These subcultures exist because these men are frustrated at their inability to get what they want from women. A woman if she is reasonably attractive can take a very passive approach to dating and she will still get approached by men, whether she wants to be approached or not. A man can take care of himself physically, have a good job, develop lots of hobbies and interests besides xbox and internet porn in an effort to become a well-rounded person, and it is still an uphill climb to get a girlfriend. Not impossible, but he is going to have to really put himself out there repeatedly and endure rejection after rejection in order to get what he wants.
For a lot of these men, they need to take a good, long look in the mirror at themselves and address their own faults and shortcomings before lashing out at the world. But I would also argue that our society is having just as corrosive effect on women as it as men.
I’m getting MRA Cliche overload here …
We attended the PUA training class for you!
With Mammoth and Fries!
“You said NOTHING about love or passion or long-term relationships there, or indeed about having a physical relationship at all. You threw generalisations around (with a nice dash of ageism and sexism) and said straight out that women should be accepting marriage proposals.”
Yeah, I don’t understand why you are having a hard time with this. Most, but not all, women want to get married and have kids. Nurturing and mothering instincts are very strong with women. Do you deny this? What happens to women after the age of 35 and especially after the age of 40? It becomes harder to conceive. The chances of having a child with birth defects or other abnormalities increases. And then eventually there is the onset of menopause and they physically can’t have kids anymore. At the same time as they get older they are competing for the same pool of men as women that are younger and prettier than they are. When you break it down to a basic biological level, men are hard-wired to respond to youth and beauty because of the implications for fertility, while women are hard-wired to respond to strength because of the implications for gathering resources and being the best possible providers for her offspring. We’re not hunter gatherers anymore, but our wiring is basically the same.
So if a woman wants to get married and have kids and secure for herself the best possible man she possibly could, doesn’t it make sense to leverage her prime child-bearing and beauty years for this purpose? I think it is in general a bad idea for people to get married under the age of 25 because they are still figuring out who they are and what they want out of life. My argument is that after that, if marriage and kids is what people want, they should approach romantic relationships with more purpose. Men should be evaluating women on the basis of whether or not they would make good wives and mothers. Women should be evaluating men on the basis of whether or not they would make good husbands and fathers. In short, they should be looking for Mr. and Mrs. Right instead of Mr. and Mrs. Right Now. That doesn’t mean get hitched to the first guy or gal that isn’t a complete train wreck of a person, but they should be be making finding Mr. or Mrs. Right a priority.
If you’re a serial monogamist or whatever and have no desire to reproduce or get married, then none of this applies to you. But if you want to follow the traditional model of getting married and starting a family, it’s prudent to approach it in an serious manner.
laughing too hard to do blockquotes … 😛
Watch the goalposts dance! I’m still finding the whole “allow me to share my precious nuggets of wisdom” tone hilarious.
(In a wow you’re an idiot way, not a clever way.)
“BWAHAHAHA you really think older women (all those decrepit post-27 year olds) are competing for younger men?”
I said that in most relationships the man is the older party. A 32 year old woman is absolutely competing for the same 35 year old bachelor as a 26 year old woman.
“Or that younger women are all chasing older men, or interested in being chased by them? Or that actual adult men only go for “prettier” (by which you evidently mean “younger”)? Typical MRA fantasy there.”
Everybody has their own individual age preferences. In general you want somebody who has the same level of emotional maturity and awareness as you. I think it would be hard for a 45 year old man to be able to find common ground with a 21 year old female. He may very much appreciate the fact that she is in her physical prime, and she might be impressed by his physical resources, but the idea that they could forge an intimate, successful relationship is laughable. But a 45 year old man and a 34 year old woman? I think that could generally work. A 47 year old man and a 27 year old woman? I doubt it. But a 36 year old man and a 28 year old woman? I think that’s feasible.
If you are denying that men in general prefer and date younger, then I don’t know that I can help you.
I’m pretty sure any man who is looking at me and considering whether or not he’s going to get my “prime childbearing and beauty years” is, by definition, very far short of the “best possible man.”
Bob is a treasure trove. Was he just mansplaining menopause to a bunch of women? Pure gold.
We live in a narcissistic and vain society that increasingly treats everything, including romantic relationships, as easily disposable commodities.
Oh, yes the GOLDEN AGE fallacy: it was all soooooooooo good in ye olden days, and it’s all sooooooooooooooooo bad now.
You do realize, Bob Troll, that fifty years from now, some boring dipshit will be droning on and on about how GOOD the good old days were, and meaning today.
It’s always pure unadulterated junk: the nostalgic idea that things were better back then.
And I am incredibly NOT impressed by your prescriptivism for women, and your heternormative patriarchal assumptions.
DOn’t encourage Steele, though, he’s meant to be resting!
Feminism stole his girlfriend.
OMG, the cliches, the cliches, THEY BURN.
I wonder if he realizes that he just implied that men as a group are immature.