So over on MGTOWforums, the regulars are pondering the age-old question – should these committed women-avoiders deal with their continued desire to stick their penises in the women they’re allegedly avoiding by resorting to prostitutes?
In the midst of a lively discussion on the advantages of “going pro” over trying to pick up a “bar hog,” one regular by the nom de internet Xtc sets forth some thoughts that, for a moment at least, seem to transcend the usual MGTOW crudity and bitterness.
“I don’t think it’s really about sex,” he writes. “I think what a lot of people are looking for is love, respect, and intimacy – which you can’t buy.”
Why, that almost seems like an insight!
Alas, in his very next sentence he spoils the moment by returning to the standard MGTOW narrative of female perfidy:
I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real. It’s sad and sobering, but that’s the way it is.
Thinking that the attention of women validates you as a person collapses once you realise they are attracted to the worst qualities in the worst men.
Thinking that the attention of women equals affection, intimacy, or love – collapses once you realise they will leave you in a second if they sense any weakness or if a BBD [bigger better deal] comes along. Then you’ll realise that the meter was running all the time, whether this was clear at the time or not.
Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good. Once you realise it’s a quack remedy, and the whole thing is a scam, you’re free to spit it out and never partake again.
That leaves you with sex alone, which is really rather easy to come by.
If women really and truly are “attracted to the worst qualities of the worst men,” why aren’t they lining up at these dudes’ front doors?
Anyone else giggling at the irony of what Bob is advocating when you think of the other MRAs who bemoan how evil it is that women “settle” for betas after hopping off the cock carousel?
I do, Cassandra, believe me I do. Why just a few weeks ago I was at the one-year birthday party for one of their babies. And all I could think of as I held that adorable little muffin was how I had utterly, utterly destroyed her father. What with our relationship being on my terms and all.
Such a good point! He goes on about the emotional connections people want from relationships, all the while saying women should accept proposals even when they don’t feel and may never feel that way about the man. Just how is that supposed to create a happy marriage for either party? Unless of course the man in question is totally blind to the woman’s feelings, I suppose.
Being married to someone who only reluctantly agreed to marry you sounds like death by 1000 cuts to me, but I guess in Bob’s world that wouldn’t bother a man.
It’s incredibly misanthropic to think that either person -man or woman- would be content with such a marriage.
Plus Bob thinks an insult is the same thing as an ad hominem argument. Sigh.
If we’re meant to marry the first person who asks us, does this mean I should have married my ex when he jokingly asked in order to mindscrew a stoner of our acquaintance?
(He was 16, I was 17.)
Possibly. Was he intelligent and of good character?
It sounds so much like so many arranged marriages – I don’t mean ones where the couple have the right of veto and it’s sort of like an organised meeting, but the sort where personalities never enter into it, where it’s really a transaction or a political process, and you’re stuck with it. If the couple were really lucky they might find contentment or even real love together (Charles I and Henriette Marie were one of those rare examples) but even when that’s your expectation of marriage, when that’s the culture and social position you’re brought up in, it’s a dreadful arrangement.
Good character? I guess, he was generally sweet and caring most of the time.
Intelligent? Yep. Although the rest of the time he was an ‘insufferable genius’.
Seeing as we broke up three years later because we grew apart, I’m kinda glad we didn’t follow through.
Also, if we had actually gotten married it would have broken the mindscrew and been less funny when random 14-year-olds we sorta knew started congratulating us on our ‘marriage’.
This is why men were allowed to have mistresses/concubines/courtesans, I expect.
CWS, absolutely – though there were men who didn’t do that, even when stuck in a marriage that was personally and politically horrible. Not many, but some.
So what it comes down to is that Bob doesn’t think women should be permitted to decline marriage or escape a bad marriage. Also “bored” appears to be trollspeak for women refusing to continue a bad relationship.
“Don’t forget homophobic!”
Because expressing support for homosexuals to be able to pursue sex and companionship on their own terms obviously equates to homophobia.
Did we scare Bob away? He was awfully boring, but we seem to be troll-less at the moment.
Spoke too soon!
“So what it comes down to is that Bob doesn’t think women should be permitted to decline marriage or escape a bad marriage. Also “bored” appears to be trollspeak for women refusing to continue a bad relationship.”
No, what it comes down to is that people have free will to leave relationships and you can’t stop them. That doesn’t mean the reasons men and women do so are for respectful and humane relationships. We live in a narcissistic and vain society that increasingly treats everything, including romantic relationships, as easily disposable commodities.
“That doesn’t mean the reasons men and women do so are for respectful and humane relationships.”
Typo – that should read ‘that doesn’t mean the reasons men and women do so are always for respectful and humane reasons.”
Can anyone else see past the grammar fail in order to figure out WTF he’s talking about?
“Such a good point! He goes on about the emotional connections people want from relationships, all the while saying women should accept proposals even when they don’t feel and may never feel that way about the man. Just how is that supposed to create a happy marriage for either party? Unless of course the man in question is totally blind to the woman’s feelings, I suppose.”
No, my contention is that women should not get far too deeply involved with a man that she does not passionately feel anything for. I do not want to be married to a woman that feels about me “Eh, he’s okay.” What I don’t want is to seriously date a woman, that woman gives me the impression that she is in love with me, we have a good relationship by typical criteria, and after we’ve spent enough time getting to know each other and making sure our values, our goals, our priorities line up and we have good chemistry, only for the woman to then say “Eh, I don’t think so.” Call it the Kate Bolick or Eat, Betray, Love scenario.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-single-ladies/308654/
“IN 2001, WHEN I was 28, I broke up with my boyfriend. Allan and I had been together for three years, and there was no good reason to end things. He was (and remains) an exceptional person, intelligent, good-looking, loyal, kind. My friends, many of whom were married or in marriage-track relationships, were bewildered. I was bewildered. To account for my behavior, all I had were two intangible yet undeniable convictions: something was missing; I wasn’t ready to settle down.”
I think in the long run Allan dodged a bullet, but it is my contention that there are a LOT of Allans out there, myself included. I am not asking women to marry men they feel “blah” about, I am asking them not to commit time theft and relationship fraud.
“Can anyone else see past the grammar fail in order to figure out WTF he’s talking about?”
Yes, if you could ease up on the useless snark, you could see I addressed the typos in the next post.
I feel like we already covered this in exhaustive detail.
Also, your request that I cease and desist with the snark is denied.
“That’s another thing, for me – the idea of having someone I don’t really, really love being physically intimate. Purely a personal feeling, but it takes the whole “marry a decent intelligent bloke if he asks regardless of how you feel” thing from awful to skin-crawling-horrible. And y’know, somehow I doubt I’m the only person who’s ever felt that way.”
Well, that’s one of the more puerile and stupid things I’ve read on here. Why would you accept a marriage proposal from somebody you haven’t fucked and feel no physical attraction for? Where are these hordes of men proposing to women that are not their serious girlfriends and they haven’t had sex with? One would think that if you’re in a long-term relationship, having sex with your significant other turns you on, or at least doesn’t physically repulse you. I don’t recall advocating accepting marriage proposals from men that you barely know and that don’t physically turn you on. Can anybody here actually debate what I post and not strawmen arguments that are easier to demolish?
“I feel like we already covered this in exhaustive detail.”
No, we haven’t, because other posters seem to be under the mistaken impression that I think women should accept a marriage proposal without hesisation from the first guy that comes along that has a job and no criminal record, without first exploring a long-term relationship together.
TIME THEFT? Are you fucking kidding me with this shit?
I bet Bob is one of those spreadsheet dudes. Everything he does for you, and every dime he spends in the relationship gets put on the sheet to be balanced later.