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$MONEY$ alpha males evil women hypergamy men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW MGTOW paradox misogyny sex

MGTOWer: “Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good.”

Like women, cats are sneaky creatures, up to no good.

So over on MGTOWforums, the regulars are pondering the age-old question – should these committed women-avoiders deal with their continued desire to stick their penises in the women they’re allegedly avoiding by resorting to prostitutes?

In the midst of a lively discussion on the advantages of “going pro” over trying to pick up a “bar hog,” one regular by the nom de internet Xtc sets forth some thoughts that, for a moment at least, seem to transcend the usual MGTOW crudity and bitterness.

“I don’t think it’s really about sex,” he writes. “I think what a lot of people are looking for is love, respect, and intimacy – which you can’t buy.”

Why, that almost seems like an insight!

Alas, in his very next sentence he spoils the moment by returning to the standard MGTOW narrative of female perfidy:

I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real. It’s sad and sobering, but that’s the way it is.

Thinking that the attention of women validates you as a person collapses once you realise they are attracted to the worst qualities in the worst men.

Thinking that the attention of women equals affection, intimacy, or love – collapses once you realise they will leave you in a second if they sense any weakness or if a BBD [bigger better deal] comes along. Then you’ll realise that the meter was running all the time, whether this was clear at the time or not.

Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good. Once you realise it’s a quack remedy, and the whole thing is a scam, you’re free to spit it out and never partake again.

That leaves you with sex alone, which is really rather easy to come by.

If women really and truly are “attracted to the worst qualities of the worst men,” why aren’t they lining up at these dudes’ front doors?

 

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inurashii
inurashii
8 years ago

MGTOW is like the fad diet of the manosphere.

It doesn’t work, it’s bad for you, and it creates communities for these guys to talk about how obsessed they are with the thing they’re trying to give up.

Harry
Harry
8 years ago

TL;DR but loved the cats. ; )

lauralot89
8 years ago

Wait, the entire point of medicine is that it does you good (unless it’s expired or something). That is why it is medicine. If your medicine has fine print saying “THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FDA” on it, you have no one to blame but yourself when you take it and it does nothing.

Damn, I just implied that MRAs have reading comprehension. When will I learn?

For all this talk about spitting out and never partaking in the evils of women again, these MGTOW still have yet to GO.

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

I take it we’re still waiting on them to go their own way and leave the poor women they’ve been obsessing about alone.

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

I take it we’re still waiting on them to go their own way and leave the poor women they’ve been obsessing about alone.

aworldanonymous
8 years ago

Sorry for the double post, I’m on my phone.

lauralot89
8 years ago

Phone? Bah, everyone knows double posts are a side effect of bitter woman pills.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real.

You get what you give.

Caitlin
8 years ago

Oi. I just…the non-logic…oi.

I don’t suppose it ever occurred to Mr. Xtc and others to perhaps examine how “respect” and “intimacy” actually function within their definition of love.

Cynickal
Cynickal
8 years ago

“love, respect, and intimacy”

Joo keep joosing those words. I do not think they mean what joo believe they mean.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

I remember one of the sadder things I read on the manosphere was a lament that what he wanted was not sex but the simple touch of another person. Yet the idea that women might be good for anything or even just sex is so abhorrent to the other guys on this forum that he was shouted down which I think is unfair because very few people can go a lifetime without some kind of human physical contact.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

MGTOW is just really fucking sad. I’d feel sorry for them if they weren’t so hateful.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

These guys… seriously, you probably could find a sex worker willing to do postcoital cuddling as an extra. Although probably not with men who start frothing with misogynistic rage whenever they get within 50m of women.

Freemage
Freemage
8 years ago

But, but… I LIKE bitter stuff. The “bitter herbs” were always my favorite part of Seder meals, and Bitter Lemon’s a great drink….

Evito
Evito
8 years ago

I honestly feel bad for anyone who has this type of “I must be alone” attitude.

Some of these guys have been legitimately hurt…just the same as some women have been legitimately hurt in the same way. And I’ll agree that there are many mean/shallow/uncaring people out there. But why should past hurt automatically mean that you should expect it from everybody? That’s just irrational, and it means you reject the awesome individuality of your fellow humans.

Using their logic, I should have assumed that EVERY man is a emotional/sexual abuser, since I was hurt that way. Guess what? I’ve never thought that…because I also had male friends who are the complete opposite!

Brains; they’re for using 🙂

MaudeLL
MaudeLL
8 years ago

The thing is, he’s probably right. The women he tends to attract are attracted to the type of man he is. If he finds that disgusting, that’s a first step. Women who aren’t attracted to assholes will just not date him. It’s almost a tautology.
Some of these guys seem to assume the women they date are a good sample to assess women in general.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real.

You get what you give.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

Freemage
Freemage
8 years ago

CWS: Actually, there’s a club in Japan for that. They actually don’t do anything explicitly sexual–it’s just for cuddling. http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/09/28/japans-first-cuddle-cafe-lets-you-sleep-with-a-stranger-for-80hr/ What’s more, the U.S. apparently did it first: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/jackie-samuel-professional-_n_1680428.html

Shaenon
8 years ago

Oh, so close. He realizes that having a girlfriend would not magically fix all his problems and give his life meaning. But instead of concluding, “There’s more to life than romantic relationships, and ultimately my life is my own to lead,” he concludes, “Women should work harder to magically fix my problems and give my life meaning! That they haven’t done this makes them evil! Also scary! But so wickedly attractive!”

That is not how you Go Your Own Way, guys.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

Professional snuggling. I have found my true calling! 😀

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

You could start the UK branch, CWS!

palmedfire
8 years ago

But but but… I thought cuddling and non-sexual intimacy was icky woman stuff! And no Real Man ™ likes icky women stuff!

WeeBoy
WeeBoy
8 years ago

Nice boys swallow.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

Actually, it probably wouldn’t work with me. Whilst I’m ok with being touched by strangers following my permission, I would be very choosy about those strangers and I don’t know if I’d have that luxury.

Also if I’m touched wrong I start twitching and flailing. But apart from that it seems like an awesome idea. I do like cuddles. I would like to get all my friends onto one king bed and have a mass snugglepile.

Zanana
Zanana
8 years ago

you should totally throw a cuddle-puddle party and invite only people you feel cuddly enough towards! (friends of my friends throw these, and they double as good practice for politely articulating/agreeing to boundaries)

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

I may be able to do that this weekend. I’m having a load of friends over at my home-home and I have access to my double bed. 😀 😀 😀

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

If these MGTOW weren’t so homophobic as well as misogynistic, they could have their own man-only snuggle parties! And if they weren’t such reeking, noxious piles of filth they wouldn’t even have to burn the bed afterwards!

drst
drst
8 years ago

@Evito-

But why should past hurt automatically mean that you should expect it from everybody? That’s just irrational, and it means you reject the awesome individuality of your fellow humans.

I’m not comfortable with that dismissal. I’m highly suspicious of people I meet and wary around everyone, because I’ve had a lot of horrible experiences with people. I don’t consider that irrational, I consider it self-defense. I feel a lot safer bracing myself for the worst and being pleasantly surprised if it doesn’t happen than I do getting blindsided because I wasn’t prepared. If you personally don’t feel that way, that’s great, but please don’t dismiss everyone else who doesn’t share your POV as “irrational.”

Harry
Harry
8 years ago

Also, let’s not let them drag us down to their level. This is one battle that really will be won with good manners, facts and good lawyers. (I can recommend a very good English one, whom saw off a ginger menace I was sued by).

WordSpinner
WordSpinner
8 years ago

Because I know Manboobzers, I leave this for you.

Behold! A new foster kitten livestream:
http://new.livestream.com/FosterKittenCam/TheSpiceKittens

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

CUTENESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Neurite
Neurite
8 years ago

1) I have to agree with other posters (and David) that oy, he gets so frustratingly close to a really good point! It is indeed a false and harmful idea to assume that “the attention of women validates you as a person”!
…except he then goes on to conclude that that’s somehow because women are eeevil and chase after assholes, rather than because you should never rely on others to validate you as a human being.

2) CWS: best of luck with the party! Snuggle parties are phenometastic! Additions that I have found extra lovely is to have a book passed around a snuggle pile member to read to the snuggle pile, or (if you have display options that would work for that) a fun but not too attention-requiring movie, or foot/shoulder rubs all around!

3) Freemage: woo, somebody else who knows Bitter Lemon! I haven’t seen the stuff anywhere since I moved to the US… though my awesome mom always makes sure to get a bottle or five when I go home to visit.

ShakaKhan
8 years ago

‘That leaves you with sex alone, which is really rather easy to come by.’

Really? REALLY? Then please, I beg of this guy, alert the other MRAs, all of whom seem to be struggling with bitter, bitter blue balls and angry that women are ‘allowed’ to ‘deny’ them their vaginas. Spread the word! Sex is actually quite easy to come by! It may not be with exactly who you want (in both men and women’s cases, not that they care about women’s tastes because they don’t like sex at all or are megasluts, I forget which) and may come at a price (financially, or emotionally), but it is possible. Seven billion people can’t be wrong.

Also, and I feel like I am just going to comment this on every single thread from here to eternity– If you are a man complaining that the women you like are flawed because of their horrible taste in men, then what does that say about your own taste in women? Doctor, heal thyself.

Harry
Harry
8 years ago

With the cats, we have victory in our sight! I want the pointy tailed ginger one. Going to call her Tara.

cloudiah
8 years ago

The moment I started that kitten livestream is the moment they started attacking the camera. Cutely terrifying.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

If you are a man complaining that the women you like are flawed because of their horrible taste in men, then what does that say about your own taste in women? Doctor, heal thyself.

Of course, with half these guys, the whine seems to be because no women apparently like them at all. Which kind of implies those women have really good taste in men … it’s the old NiceGuyTM attitude that any other bloke a woman likes must automatically be a mongrel, simply because he’s not the NiceGuyTM.

WeeBoy
WeeBoy
8 years ago

KITTIEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
8 years ago

Have any of these guys ever experimented with homosexuality?

I mean, its two birds (or rather, zero) one stone.

Tracy Bradley
Tracy Bradley
8 years ago

One of the commenters on that forum thread posted something that made me feel bad for him:

I used to believe in Love, to the point where it was the most important thing to me, even more important than Money, and every night I’d go to bed, I’d ask myself, “Did you find Love today?” and the answer was always “No”, I measured my happiness and self-worth on this and tortured myself for decades.

Until he said:

Women in the Western world aren’t sweet anymore (maybe they never were but had to at least pretend), I was flipping through this book and women used to go to “finishing schools” where they learned manners, how to be polite and appreciative, of course such things no longer exist.

These poor fellas could find true love if only us wimmenz still went to Ms. Beadle’s Finishing School, apparently? *sigh*

Noadi
8 years ago

@drst: Being wary of others after being hurt because maybe the next person will do it too is totally understandable. What is irrational is being hurt and then deciding that half the adult population are 100% evil and only out to use you.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

@Tracey – even before the finishing school bit, he’s talking nonsense, as if “finding love” is something that happens instantly, every time, or can’t happen at all. No wonder he’s on his own if he has such an unrealistic expectation.

sidestinkappleeye
8 years ago

Evito- But why should past hurt automatically mean that you should expect it from everybody? That’s just irrational, and it means you reject the awesome individuality of your fellow humans.

drst–I’m not comfortable with that dismissal. I’m highly suspicious of people I meet and wary around everyone, because I’ve had a lot of horrible experiences with people. I don’t consider that irrational, I consider it self-defense. I feel a lot safer bracing myself for the worst and being pleasantly surprised if it doesn’t happen than I do getting blindsided because I wasn’t prepared. If you personally don’t feel that way, that’s great, but please don’t dismiss everyone else who doesn’t share your POV as “irrational.”

I see what Evito said a much different way. I have had bad experiences and because of them I am cautious about new people. Unlike MRAs I not preemptively filled with rage at the prospect of people with qualities like those that have hurt me (in their case a whole sex;women/girls) existing and having freedoms.

There is a huge difference in being naturally cautious after being hurt(protecting yourself) and pre-emptively attacking. It is defense vs un-warranted offense in my opinion. Sort of like Al-Quida attacking on 9/11 then Bush declaring war against Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11.

Oh, what Noadi said.

Melody
8 years ago

,blockquote> These poor fellas could find true love if only us wimmenz still went to Ms. Beadle’s Finishing School, apparently? *sigh*

Of course men don’t need to go to finishing school as they are already perfect.

you should totally throw a cuddle-puddle party and invite only people you feel cuddly enough towards! (friends of my friends throw these, and they double as good practice for politely articulating/agreeing to boundaries)

My friends in high school seemed to do this. It was nice. Non-sexual cuddling is the best. For 6 years on New Years we would all go to a friends house (yes, her folks where rich and she had 2 houses) and eat and have a party. And when we got too tired we would all crawl into a queen sized bed together. It was amazing. I miss being able to that. It seems the older I get the more sexualized cuddling gets.

Melody
8 years ago

Oops on block quote…..

katz
8 years ago

I wish my friends were into that sort of thing; I used to cuddle with my college friends but the people I hang out with now are just not cuddly like that. Last time I hugged our closest friends was when one of them got engaged and when the other one got in a motorcycle accident (he was OK but I was very worried).

Evito
Evito
8 years ago

@drst

Like others have pointed out, I wasn’t “dismissing” anyone. Having exaggerated self defense in order to protect one’s emotions/sanity is understandable. I am like that also…I GREATLY dislike being touched (except by the 2 people I completely trust). Hugs, cuddling, back scratching, massages, hand holding, etc all feels “bad” to me. It literally makes the hair on my neck raise, and I’ve inadvertently bared my teeth at well intentioned/overly friendly customers. I get where you’re coming from about needing to be wary.

However, there is a difference between the natural, learned wariness that people like you & I have…and the all out paranoia of certain MRAs who believe every woman they meet will be a raging beast-girl, and thus refuse the very possibility of being “pleasantly surprised”.

drst
drst
8 years ago

@noadi & @sidestinkappleye – I agree with you, but that’s not what Evito said. Blanket declarations that reacting to having been hurt in the past by feeling, you know, hurt and vulnerable is “irrational” is not “it’s okay to be wary as long as you don’t go overboard.” I see a difference and I wasn’t comfortable with the phrasing, especially since “irrational” is a really problematic word, one often used to dismiss the opinions of women by default, and it also implies that rationality (as defined by some other person, always) is somehow the only correct way to be human, because any time you don’t behave the way some other person thinks you should, you’re not being “rational”. It’s judgmental at best.

drst
drst
8 years ago

@Evito – here’s my issue: I know a lot of women, myself included, who get told we’re overreacting by being constantly on guard about our physical safety. I’ve been told I’m paranoid. I’ve heard a lot of women being told that they’re overdoing it and that by being defensive and/or hostile, especially when approached by strangers in public, we’re “refusing the possibility” of meeting a “nice guy.”

I disagree with the MRM demonization of women and the tendency of many of them to decide after being burned once or a few times that all women are the embodiment of evil. But I’m uncomfortable with this line of reasoning, especially using language like “irrational” and “paranoid” (hello internet diagnoses!), because I’ve seen it deployed against women as a way to derail discussions and even shame women who are trying to protect themselves. Turning that around onto men, even MRAs, isn’t productive.

I mean, how do you define “natural”? Is it based on your personal experiences? What if someone else’s experiences don’t match someone else’s, who’s right? I’m not disagreeing with your fundamental point, but your language makes me uneasy.

I’ll drop this now rather than overtake the thread.

Noadi
8 years ago

drst: If we’re to take your last post at face value it would imply that we shouldn’t judge the MRM as being wrong or irrational because sometimes that’s used as a silencing tactic against women. Since I’ve seen you post here enough to know otherwise do you think maybe you are reading into what Evito said more than was meant? Because assuming everyone is out to get you because one person hurt you IS irrational and paranoid (not in the psychiatric disorder sense but in the “extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others” sense). It’s not “turning it around” on men, it’s being accurate. Sometimes language is used inaccurately to silence others but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used when it is valid.

Evito
Evito
8 years ago
Reply to  drst

@drst

I think we’re using different language to say the same thing…I’m just being overly blunt in the way I speak.
Quite often, and especially online, I’m accused of being insensitive, angry or cold. I truly don’t mean to be, I simply have a very literal way of using vocabulary. When I use words like “paranoid” I’m not trying to dismiss anyone’s feelings or create turbulence. I’m honestly saying that being paranoid is not healthy!

However, I am going to stop this as well, since it is making a stir.

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