In an interview a few years back with The Sun magazine, atheist bigwig Sam Harris had this to say about the comparable (de)merits of religion and rape:
If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would not hesitate to get rid of religion.
You can read the whole interview starting here.
And some people wonder why so many atheists have broken with Harris and the rest of the Old School New Atheist Boys Club to start Atheism Plus.
EDITED TO ADD: Hadn’t noticed that the interview was from 2006, so maybe this is old news to a lot of atheists. Still horrible.
Brooklyn – I’m not minimising the treatment atheists get in some parts of the world. But I do get awfully tired of the US internet atheists who talk as if it’s the worst thing in the world in space and applies to all atheists everywhere. Sorry, it doesn’t, and Skyrimjob’s “kowtow to the great Hitchens you ungrateful wretches” attitude was just ridiculous.
I grew up atheist in the small-town southern U.S. in the 60’s and 70’s and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what I have to be grateful to Hitchens for. One of the reasons I’m atheist is that I don’t need or want anyone to tell me how to think, or even validate my thoughts. Of course, I’m only speaking for myself.
What kittehs said. Part of the problem with the online atheist persecution complex is the assumption that it’s a universal thing, and then the resulting “but we’re a legit minority, far more oppressed than those women or POC!” whining. Look at Dvarg’s situation – she’s the only theist in her workplace. There are parts of the world in which that’s not uncommon.
Having said that, I do see why people who grew up in areas where pretending to be super Christian is socially mandatory would feel like they’re an oppressed minority. I just think that they need to get a little more perspective about that, and that if they did it would help with their attitude towards women, POC, and so on.
And inside of India, Buddhism basically doesn’t exist. Less that 1% of Indians are Buddhist. Unless you’re in the areas that are essentially Tibetan (Arunchal Pradesh, Ladakh, and Sikkim), they’re very scarce. Buddhism was essentially reintroduced to India from the outside.
@Kitteh and CassandraSays
^_^;; Cool. I wasn’t agreeing with Skyrimjob or anything. I was just giving my perspective as someone who feels like I genuinely have a hard time because I’m an atheist. I used to look up to Hitchens and Dawkins until they demonstrated how awful they can be.
And while I’m sure that there are some atheist that develop a weird false persecution complex I have honestly never heard this before –>>>[“but we’re a legit minority, far more oppressed than those women or POC!” whining.] …Maybe because I don’t hang out on Reddit or something…
Um… so, when Hitch changed his position on something, that was PURE POWER OF PRINCIPLE, YEEEAAAH!!
When I change positions, that’s bandwagon-jumping.
Huh. I see how this works. Fun.
I’ve always felt kinda odd about the atheist thing, since I was an atheist for ages in the South USA, and nobody really cared. I mean, sure I got proselytized at a bit, but that happens EVERYWHERE. (I just get hubby to deal with them. He’s a Southern Baptist, so he just whips out Bible theory and starts talking theology to them.) Far as things that have caused me trouble in life, it’s not even on my radar. But then again, maybe I was just really lucky.
I’ve never been a big fan of Dawkins or the rest, because I never had a need to read their books. I mean, I was an atheist kid and nothing ever changed my mind. (If God existed for me, I would be very, VERY angry at him. Other people can have their gods, I’m cool with that, I just don’t want one anywhere near me.)
In some ways, I guess I’m just sheltered.
Well, okay, maybe. I only recently started reading Hitchens’ stuff and I was blown away by how far above the rest of the bland journalist crap it all was. It felt like what Calvin and Hobbes was to weekly funny strips, ie, it so outclassed the rest of its medium that it was almost funny.
I never had a moment where I become an atheist either, I always felt that way. A lot of the narrative online seems to be centered around people who were raised very religious and then became atheists, maybe that’s why it feels so foreign to me, since I never had any faith to lose or reject.
I’m actually not even an atheist… again, I have enjoyed Hitchens for other reasons.
You realize how ridiculous it is that you threw a shitfit at people many of whom were reading his stuff for years before you’d ever heard of him for not respecting his body of work, right?
Skyrimjob, can you please point me to one specific passage or short article from Hitchens that you consider to be well-written? Because I’m just not seeing it.
Well, no, because I do think there’s a lot of haterade being passed around ever since he died. Not just him, actually, it’s been happening a lot lately. My theory is because the internet preserves everything, and also encourages negativity, so people always focus on the worst.
That just proves that you know very little about the man’s career. The backlash against him started a long time before his death.
@katz, I just randomly opened up Arguably. Here’s the end of his Harry Potter 7 review:
The toys have been put firmly back in the box, the wand has been folded up, and the conjuror is discreetly accepting payment while the children clamor for fresh entertainments. (I recommend that they graduate to Philip Pullman, whose daemon scheme is finer than any patronus.) It’s achievement enough that “19 years later,” as the last chapter-heading has it, and quite probably for many decades after that, there will still be millions of adults who recall their initiation to literature as a little touch of Harry in the night.
I think that’s good writing.
Whatever CassandraSays. I read fast.
Skyrim,
Where he tried to be Bertrand Russel, he failed.
As a general rule the idea of a retort is that it’s supposed to make some kind of sense. Just FYI.
GAAAH! It’s “Russell,” with two L’s! Even I know that!
oops
So… what was your point? Because before you discovered, “Hitch”, I’d given up on him as a lazy poser; long before he went off the deep end from irrational dear, but you are upset that “atheists turned on him”.
Why? Because you think he’s such a stellar writer, and as such makes atheism better, even though you aren’t an atheist (which speaks volumes about how persuasive you find his writing)?
Seems to me what’s really got your knickers in a twist is that we don’t like him, and that (as with someone who just read Valis, or Atlas Shrugged, your BFF of Letters has been insulted, and This Will NOT Stand!.
Skyrimjob: Ok, you like that writing… why? What does it say to you? What is the meaning of the passage, what is it that lifts it above the madding crowd?
Huh.
But that whole passage doesn’t really say anything. The entire first sentence just says that the franchise is over without actually saying anything about it. The last sentence is touting as an achievement something that hasn’t happened yet (Harry Potter’s impact on the future). The reference to Pullman isn’t doing much to counter David’s assertion that he just dashes off reviews by mentioning other vaguely-related things.
The reference to wands folding is distracting in a review about Harry Potter, since Harry Potter wands don’t fold (and, indeed, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a wand of any sort that does). And the Henry V reference is apropos of absolutely nothing.
Also, parentheses outside of a sentence? Allowable in casual writing, but technically incorrect.
I mean, it’s not bad writing, but it’s not the sort of thing that would make me reread a sentence just because of the gorgeousness of the prose (and, yes, I’ve found myself doing that sometimes).
I don’t think this is a fair criticism; ideally I hope people would be able to appreciate the literary merits of writers they disagree with.
It’s just well-constructed. He ties in the “19 years later” epilogue with his thesis that Harry will kickstart the next generation of readers.
But anyway, clearly liking Christopher Hitchens makes me an egregious troll at Manboobz. I don’t actually think I’m the only person with this opinion.