Over on A Voice for Men, the paramount meeting place for the brave warriors of the Leading Human Rights Movement of the 21st Century, a commenter calling himself Laddition has some uncharacteristically kind words to say about feminists (in this thread). Well, “kind” may not be the right word for it. But Laddition tells us that as awful as the awful feminists are, they’re not quite as bad as are … the rest of the world’s women. Sorry, the “rest of the fem-herd.” He explains:
Naturally, the readers of A Voice for Men greeted these pearls of wisdom with upvotes.
Oh, and while we’re on the topic, can someone explain GirlWritesWhat and TyphonBlue and the rest of AVFM’s little FemMRA, er, herd to me again? What exactly draws women to hang out with, and make 45 minute-long videos on the behalf of, dudes who not only hate women but who offer new proof of this hatred on a daily basis?
I felt sorry for TyphonBlue after reading this article of hers:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/evo-psych/the-power-of-pussy/
…in which she claims that men are responsible for “most of the physical work of sex”. Well Ms Blue, there’s an easy way around that one- more than a few ways actually-, and if you haven’t worked this out maybe someone should show you sometime!
In this article she appears to be implying that women don’t give men orgasms, and heterosexual sex is really just men wanking into living blow-up dolls. Isn’t she married, and does she honestly believe this is how her husband sees her? In theory I guess all FeMRAs would be happy to accept such an arrangement as their Duty To Society.
That whole article is a horrible generalisation of male sexuality too, assuming men have no need for an emotional connection or anything else beyond physical stimulation and their own sexy thoughts- pretty misandrist really! Then again, in MRA Land there is only one acceptable kind of sexuality- dominant men on top of submissive young HB10s- so maybe we should expect them to only be aware of one way to reach orgasm, and to not know women are capable of anything other than “starfishing” underneath them during sex. With their attempts to have more vanilla sex and make sex more vanilla for everyone else I really do pity them.
Wow, are MRAs misandrist.
Nathan- for what it’s worth, I assumed you were posting here in good faith too! Personally I found your accounts of your experiences interesting, especially the mentions of “sex-positive feminism”. I hate that term for many reasons- anyone calling themselves a sex-positive feminist seems to be implying that most other feminists are anti-sex, and that they’re not like those *other* feminists… that term manages to sound both apologetic and smug at the same time!
Feminism is simple for me- it’s about equality, and it only got the name “feminism” because it was women who initially had to fight for it. If men had been oppressed we’d have masculinism, just as if Caucasians and heterosexuals had been oppressed we’d have White Power and Straight Pride movements.
Maybe feminism needs a new name, but does the simple concept of equality really confuse so many people, or do they just pretend to not understand it so they can dismiss it more easily? Really it just needs a better reputation- the misogynists working hard to promote the “ugly feminist” and “man-hater” stereotypes have done a lot to make women want to distance themselves from what they’ve been wrongly told feminism is all about.
my Ma talks like a FeMRA (and so did I before I went to college and started hanging out at the Women’s Center) and my impression is that it’s more like a Stockholm Syndrome kind of coping mechanism than a reasoned response to second wave ideas about sex work.
I’m probably using “Stockholm Syndrome” wrong here, but I mean that I remember thinking I could sidestep oppression by identifying with men and acting like a man. And I was proud of myself to the extent that I succeeded in that, and I was angry at other women for not trying harder to do the same.
And it wasn’t until I started talking to feminists that it hit me that there was no good reason I should have to adhere to some standard of “manliness” in order to avoid oppression… not to mention that such attempts to be manly couldn’t really protect me from oppression anyway. It was a long road to conversion, though.
Ah, the irony. MRAs and FeMRAs complaining about women’s sexuality, or women having any experience, taking pleasure in sex, etc, etc … and then complaining that teh poor menz have to do all the work.
Small derail, but does anyone else here dislike the term “vanilla”? It always sounds like such a put-down to me, though I guess since people who like kink get put down a lot, it’s not unreasonable. I just get mildly peeved when I infer that not using accessories = boring sex.
I had thought it was value-neutral, and I know people who are proud to be “vanilla” but I’ve also talked to people who thought it implied boringness… I can see where that’s coming from. is there another descriptor you prefer?
inurashii- the article also neglects to overlook the many reasons men have trouble ejaculating, beyond “the pussy isn’t working hard enough” and “the man’s sexy thoughts aren’t sexy enough”- again, just physical stimulation and sexy thoughts, ie, wanking. In reality sex with a new partner usually isn’t that great at first but gets much better later on, and a lot of men have difficulty reaching orgasm when in the early stages of a new relationship. Part of this is experience- partners getting a chance to explore each other and find out what does it for them- but a lot of it is just down to people just getting more comfortable with each other.
Many men also have difficulty giving themselves orgasms from masturbation and there can be many reasons from this, from emotional problems and stress to physical problems such as high blood pressure, too much alcohol or medication side effects. If a man can’t ejaculate his partner has a right to be concerned- not out of vanity or a selfish demand that a man “perform”, but because it could be a sign of a serious underlying problem. Plus women generally want the sex to be good for men too and don’t like to see them frustrated and upset! If it’s good for them, it’s more likely to be good for you- men and women alike, we get off on seeing our partners getting off too!
Anorgasmia, as it’s known, is actually a very common problem for men, strongly suggesting that more porn + more wanking isn’t a magical solution, and that the emotional connection may be more important than the MRAs would like to admit. If it’s not about the emotional side, it at least seems that being able to relax and feel comfortable around someone is a very big deal when it comes to the male orgasm.
TyphonBlue’s article suggests that men aren’t simple creatures who can “perform” on command, but that their sexuality comes in just one flavour and is very simple indeed. Maybe she should talk to a few more men beyond the manosphere and realise that she’s making some insulting generalisations here- it would certainly be better than her current MO of citing lots of irrelevant research on different species with very different mating rituals!
I always took it to mean “not risky, enjoyed by most people, tasty but not adventurous, would be really delicious with cookie dough mixed in”…
I guess some people do use it as insult. But vanilla (flavour) is tasty as everything. Especially in a hot chocolate. And it’s a basic building block – like, you can do kinky stuff, but (in my experience) kinky people do kinky stuff on top of vanilla (PiV, handjobs, oral, anal, it’s the same basic stuff whether you spank each other first or not…)
Vanilla has never bothered me that much. I’m trying to think of a word that doesn’t imply that kink is abnormal or wrong and not having much luck.
You know what word does bother me though? Horny.
Zanana, CWS – thanks for your input!
I think the unadventurous part suggests something … I dunno, like it’s only talking about sex as if it’s just a pastime on a level with playing Solitaire. Sex to me is only about making love and that’s plenty adventurous.
Hmm, perhaps I’ll call my preferred sex strawberry. Or strawberry-in-chocolate.
Or Spanish Sipping Chocolate Sex. (OMG the chocolate they do at San Churro’s!)
kittehs- in my post above I was using “vanilla” to refer to a dominant man atop a submissive female in the missionary position, which is where MRAs seem to think sex begins and ends. Missionary can be great of course and to be honest I don’t see the appeal of most kinky stuff, but reading MRA stuff one could be forgiven for thinking only one position exists, with just one clearly-defined role for the man and another for the woman.
Missionary is also great for people who get off on the emotional connection and seeing their partner’s response, so it’s interesting to see how often MRAs complain about women “starfishing” beneath them and this sex being unsatisfactory. For this and other reasons you’d think more of them would give reverse cowgirl a go!
Yeah, horny’s a crappy word.
Uh, that sort of depends on what kinds of sex you’re having, doesn’t it?
But even if this were true, how fucking ridiculous is it to see this as some sort of oppression of men. Oh dear, I have to thrust my penis both in and out of this vagina! What an outrage! Misandry!
I’m mean, I’m pretty lazy, but how fucking lazy do you have to be to see this as oppression?
Are there really any guys out there that do? Or is TB just working herself into a lather over something she assumes guys feel oppressed about (or should)? I’m guessing the latter; that’s sort of her style.
(Obviously there are guys who have physical impediments that make it difficult or impossible to do what TB calls “the physical work of sex,” but clearly that’s not what she’s talking about.)
I should probably read the rest of that post. TB is sort of on her own planet.
It makes me think of toads. Toads… not exactly sexy.
Randy just makes me think of hyperactive Jack Russels humping everything… or Lord Byron… or hyperactive Jack Russels dressed up as Lord Byron humping everything…
Stepford Knife – yes, I got that. 🙂 I don’t think of vanilla mostly equalling missionary, more as not involving what’s broadly called kink, and implicitly being dull/unimaginiative/unadventurous because of that. I suspect it’s as much to do with the sort of boards where I’ve read the term as anything else.
The emotional connection with missionary (or any face-to-face position) is exactly its appeal for me. And isn’t it soooo typical of MRAs to think both that there’s only one type of sex and to complain about women just lying there? Jayzuz, I’d prolly just lie there and think GET IT OVER WITH if I had the misfortune to have sex with a bloke like that. And while they fantasise about being fellated, I bet they run a mile from “slutty” women who actually have preferences and experiences of their own and express ’em in bed.
I totally want a picture of this.
“Uh, that sort of depends on what kinds of sex you’re having, doesn’t it?”
That was my entire point, David! It often seems that TyphonBlue and many other MRAs are only aware of one sexual position, and the whole “good sex is all about good communication” chestnut seems to have passed them by. Here’s a radical suggestion: if a male MRA doesn’t like a woman starfishing, why doesn’t he *drumroll* actually try telling her this? I suppose it’s because talking about what he wants could lead to her admitting what she wants too and that’s a risk MRAs aren’t prepared to take, not even when it could lead to better boners. For the MRA any such discussion would not only involve being exposed to the mythical and DISGUSTING concept of female sexuality, but also being forced to listen to the bitch drone on about it…
^ I meant the ol’ chestnut there obviously, not the *whole* chestnut. That would obviously be far too kinky.
Vanilla is an excellent thing, tasty alone when good quality, and also enhancing everything from shortcake to banana splits to (believe it or not) certain curries. For the latter, use with soy sauce, ginger, and a bit of Worcestershire…
I believe it is that they might have to learn that they have been doing it wrong and sometimes people do not like to hear criticism of anything they do.
::shades eyes:: Is that a cooking discussion I see on the horizon?
I think vanilla is fine. It sounds nice, and it has a connotation of “something plain that could be dressed up with other stuff if you like, but is also fine by itself.” If it was called oatmeal or saltine cracker or something like that, I’d have a problem.
Especially since crackers would leave crumbs in the bed.
Vanilla is great but tonka bean is better… so good it’s illegal in the US! I shall have to write a definition of “tonka bean sex”… maybe it would be sex that would be legal everywhere but the US. Maybe tonka beans can be used alongside whole chestnuts…
And you could get crumbs in your pajamas, and then you’ll get itchy.