Manosphere drama is always a bit surreal. You may recall my post the other day about the feud developing between two sites that are regular sources of material for us here at Man Boobz: MGTOWforums and A Voice for Men. As you may recall, the folks at MGTOWforums were working themselves into a lather because AVFM was committing the cardinal sin of allowing women – sorry, “cunts” – to post articles and comments. The horror!
Now AVFM has fired back. In a thread on AVFM’s relatively new forum, head cheese Paul Elam lashes out at the “MGTOW Forum Fuckwits,” declaring them a bunch of shit-stirring “piss ants” and announcing his plans to turn the AVFM forum into MGTOW central.
I see an opportunity here, This forum is very user friendly to MGTOW’s. MGTOW Forums is the largest one of its kind, but it is run by children. I will happily siphon off as many of the men they ban and shame for not measuring up to their cliquish little band of alpha wannabe’s as I can.
God knows [MGTOWforums admin] Nacho and his bootlickers run them off as quick as they come in.
AVfM is already a more traveled site than their forum, and as time passes the MGTOW presence here will eclipse their little circle jerk.
Speaking of circle jerks, here’s Paul, in an unrelated thread on his forum, banning a dude for having the temerity to suggest that “Reddit, not avoiceformen.com, is the most important online resource for Men’s Rights Activism.”
BANNED! Nothing must challenge the supremacy of PAUL ELAM!
Naturally, I found out about this by reading about it on MGTOWforums, where A Voice for Men is now being dismissed as — I kid you not — “A Vagina For Manginas.”
Still, the strangest development in this civil war is this: some MGTOWers who’ve been banned from AVFM’s forum have set up an alternative forum of their own, which they’ve rather confusingly named “AVFMforums.” Yes, that’s right, it’s a battle between the AVFM forums and … AVFMforums. How can you tell them apart? Well, when the latter group uses the acronym AVFM they mean “Alternate Voice for Men” rather than the original “A Voice for Men.” Also, the dudes at AVFMforums think that AVFM’s Elam is “a lying hippocrite [sic] with no credibility.”
If this is all a bit confusing, perhaps this brief video clip will help elucidate some of the issues here:
Also, for no particular reason, here are two new pictures of Sweetie Pie Jonus, one of my kittens:
Actually, the combatants in this latest mansophere civil war could learn a thing or two from my kittens. They fight, but always seem to end up licking each other’s heads. The kittens, that is. I’d love to see Paul Elam and his critics doing the same.
I should note that there are plenty of white, christian men who are/were genuinely good people. It’s just that “not making you wanna puke” is setting the bar pretty fucking low.
In fact, “not supporting slavery in civil-war era America” is also a pretty low bar.
Slightly off topic, but I was raised in the South, and we spent so much time learning all the wrong things about the civil war. I learned a lot about all the different battles white men fought, about the tragedy of war and of brother fighting brother. I certainly learned about States Rights! I learned about how the men of the Confederacy were noble, even while losing. I grew up visiting battlefields and learning of the thousands of white men who died, and I visited plantations to learn about how white people lived.
Certainly slavery was mentioned, but it was glossed over. The suffering and pain and horrible deaths of millions of people was barely mentioned.
Because the Confederacy was our heritage! We were proud, strong, independent people who built a country on our own backs and fought for our freedom.
So, yes. The Civil War was about slavery, and saying otherwise a massive lie constructed by US school systems trying to glorify the ignoble deaths of our ancestors.
(On a side note, this is part of what disgusts me about the “pulled myself up by my bootstraps” rhetoric espoused by many conservatives. You did not! Stop pretending like no one helped you, you didn’t benefit from other’s labor.)
Ithiliana – I might be wrong, but I suspect that Angela’s comment was in reference to my earlier one about how there are more slaves in the world today than during the four centuries of the African slave trade (and my implication that people should be concerned about this). I don’t think she was specifically stating that this is connected in any way as to why the Civil War was fought.
Angela replied to me (and, Angela, if you return, I’d love to discuss this with you) that one of the problems with freeing today’s slaves is that it might cost about $150 per person in rehabilitation. My quick response – “yes, and why not free them and spend the $150?”
Full disclosure – fighting human trafficking and raising awareness of it is something I do. I initially wrote this in this thread, not to derail, but to reply to NWO when he made his comment about how people like him erased slavery, and I wanted to point out to him that it’s still alive, strong and bigger than ever, and could really use some help in being erased.
Holy shit.
@blitzgal: this has been your daily reminder that a well-crafted quote-mine can give you a word for word quote that changes the meaning of the text to mean the exact opposite of what it said.
Brought to you by fundamentalism and the letter A. (for A-hole)
Actually, Rahu, Angela’s specific claim was that the slave-owning Union states were allowed to keep their slaves after the American Civil War. Actual quote:
This is about the American Civil War, and specifically about slavery carrying on in the United States after said war.
The states-rights defense of the Confederacy is a lie and it doesn’t matter if Angela was spreading that lie due to ignorance, stupidity, insanity, or dishonesty; the lie has to be called out as a lie.
David, do you smoke weed around your kitties? Sweetie Pie looks high as a kite in the photo where she has her eyes closed.
2-D Man – I wasn’t talking about the rest of what Angela wrote regarding slavery in America before, during and immediately after the Civil War. I was only talking about her comment on modern-day slavery.
Ah, fair enough.
I think the whole question of why the American Civil War was fought gets muddled by the fact that the Union didn’t initially pronounce that it was about abolition for fear that the remaining slave states (Kentucky, West Virginia, et al) would join the Confederacy and tip the balance in favor of the Confederates.
Here’s a little quote for ya, “Records show that some Native American women bought African men as slaves.”
Just as a fun little reminder of how incredibly disingenuous NWO is, this is the very next sentence after the one he’s quoting: “Unknown to European sellers, the women freed and married the men into their tribe.”
Oh my gosh, ULTIMATE NWO MOMENT.
From now on, whenever he tries to post, I will reply with this.
Is one of those guys’ super dogs in the post picture called Poodle? He’s saying, “To him, pudel!”
I would reckon – poodles were popular dogs at court.
So from the BBC documentary I watched (which also pointed to a lot of racist comments from Lincoln) said that states’ rights was used at the time (as well as now I guess) for the right to keep slaves. The idea of states’ rights and slavery was apparently synonymous. I don’t know how true this is as I don’t know what other “rights” states consider important. However given the use of states rights today seems to mean banning abortion and not letting gay people marry it wouldn’t surprise me. So I guess what I mean is can someone explain states’s right in terms of it’s good points.
Yes, “states’ rights” is a grubby phrase to me, given the things it’s currently used for. Funny how the No Big Gummint types are perfectly happy to have Big Gummint when it’s a state turning its power against the vulnerable “Other”.
I’m pretty sure it’s because when government intervention benefits them, they don’t see it as government intervention. Tax benefits for (heterosexual) married couples? Well, that’s just the natural order of things! State schools? That’s the way things are! Sanitation systems? They probably don’t consider that those are at least partially government projects.
If you took those things away on the grounds of “you don’t like government interferance, rugged individualism, Ayn Rand hooray!” they’d start whinging about how unfair it is, and probably never think that it’s equally unfair that gay people don’t get to marry (or whatever their pet ‘states rights’ issue is).
Of course Slavy is minimizing todays slave trade. The majority of todays slave trade is composed of women and children.
Yes, in Owly’s world, that’s how things are supposed to be anyway.
@Rahu: I’m sorry! Thanks for the clarification–I was skimming waaaay too fast.
Remember, the problem NWO has with slavery is that, if people are owned by the government or by a group of other people, that’s communism.
“Group” being the problematic part, I presume?
Natch.
@ithiliana – no prob! 🙂
“States’ Rights” is easier to remember than “Doctrine of Nullifications
Angela: But more importantly, slavery might have been the fourth grade test answer to why the Civil war was fought. Those precious white Christian men died over states rights, and in fact the civil war didn’t end slavery as slave owning northern states were still allowed to own slaves after the war.
Yeah… the rights of people in those states to own slaves. They made a big deal of it in the months they spent campaigning for secession while Buchanan (the worst president in the history of the US) failed to do a damn thing to stop them.
And no, after the war there was no slavery allowed in the US. It was made part of the constitution, and everything.