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Manosphere Civil War: AVFM fires back at the MGTOW rebels. Also, kitty pics.

Dude against dude. Not sure why the dogs are floating in midair.

Manosphere drama is always a bit surreal. You may recall my post the other day about the feud developing between two sites that are regular sources of material for us here at Man Boobz: MGTOWforums and A Voice for Men. As you may recall, the folks at MGTOWforums were working themselves into a lather because AVFM was committing the cardinal sin of allowing women – sorry, “cunts” – to post articles and comments. The horror!

Now AVFM has fired back. In a thread on AVFM’s relatively new forum, head cheese Paul Elam lashes out at the “MGTOW Forum Fuckwits,” declaring them a bunch of shit-stirring “piss ants” and announcing his plans to turn the AVFM forum into MGTOW central.

I see an opportunity here, This forum is very user friendly to MGTOW’s. MGTOW Forums is the largest one of its kind, but it is run by children. I will happily siphon off as many of the men they ban and shame for not measuring up to their cliquish little band of alpha wannabe’s as I can.

God knows [MGTOWforums admin] Nacho and his bootlickers run them off as quick as they come in.

AVfM is already a more traveled site than their forum, and as time passes the MGTOW presence here will eclipse their little circle jerk.

Speaking of circle jerks, here’s Paul, in an unrelated thread on his forum, banning a dude for having the temerity to suggest that “Reddit, not avoiceformen.com, is the most important online resource for Men’s Rights Activism.”

BANNED! Nothing must challenge the supremacy of PAUL ELAM!

Naturally, I found out about this by reading about it on MGTOWforums, where A Voice for Men is now being dismissed as — I kid you not — “A Vagina For Manginas.”

Still, the strangest development in this civil war is this: some MGTOWers who’ve been banned from AVFM’s forum have set up an alternative forum of their own, which they’ve rather confusingly named “AVFMforums.” Yes, that’s right, it’s a battle between the AVFM forums and … AVFMforums. How can you tell them apart? Well, when the latter group uses the acronym AVFM they mean “Alternate Voice for Men” rather than the original “A Voice for Men.” Also, the dudes at AVFMforums think that AVFM’s Elam is “a lying hippocrite [sic] with no credibility.”

If this is all a bit confusing, perhaps this brief video clip will help elucidate some of the issues here:

Also, for no particular reason, here are two new pictures of Sweetie Pie Jonus, one of my kittens:

Actually, the combatants in this latest mansophere civil war could learn a thing or two from my kittens. They fight, but always seem to end up licking each other’s heads. The kittens, that is. I’d love to see Paul Elam and his critics doing the same.

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thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

Does anyone besides me think there is a Vernor Vinge reference in that Spaceballs film?

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

“piss ants”

Suddenly inclined to start a punk band…

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

“Human male potency”??? Does this crouton reduce everything about men to the ability to get an erection or their fertility?

Not to mention the charming description of women as livestock. I wonder if these slimeballs would like to explain why they’re so keen on bestiality? I mean, if we’re not actually human … and despite what they claim, one cannot actually make a being/creature change its species by shoving one’s Mighty Dick into it.

Nova
Nova
8 years ago

There’s already a punk band called the Piss Ants. Never heard of them, never heard their music, but I figured there HAD to be a punk band called the Piss Ants, as there’s a rather famous one called the Ass Forts and another called the Bathtub Shitters.

Punk bands take all the good names.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

Criminy! I should have realized it would be all about the male potency creator godhead thingummy.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

TyphonBlue and her hilarious babble about how learning how to make penises happy is what makes women human again?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

God, the MRM is one giant Note From a Boner.

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

I know I shouldn’t engage, but…NWO, I have to ask: is your central point (that white Christians are better than anybody else because they’r ethe only ones who’ve ever fought to free a slave race that wasn’t them) at all diminished by the fact that the slave owners they were fighting were also white Christians?

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Seraph, I think God’s Divine Plan was to have WhiteChristians create the single largest and most brutal system of slavery seen up to that point in history so that WhiteChristians could prove to the world how good they are by destroying it. The answer to your question being: lalalalalalalalalalalalala I can’t hear you lalalalalalalalalalala

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

@hellkell

It’s like the Magna Carta From Their Boner, if the Magna Carta said “Bardus meretricum Consuesse adorare mea gallus, cur non ego habetur deus enim habens irrumabo!”* over and over and over again…

*Google Translate Latin

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

NWO, one semi-decent act by white men does not erase years upon years of asshole behavior. And don’t go thinking he mighty white man of your wet dreams ended slavery out of the goodness of their hearts.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Lines Composed A Few Miles Above Tintern Abbey (On The Subject Of My Tumescence)

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

This latest MRM kerfluffle could be called A Tale of Two Boners

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
8 years ago

Can someone summarise the zeta femininity podcast? I don’t have high speed Internet at home. I heard the beginning, I always hate how I can never know if I have achieved anything or whether everything was handed to me on a plate. I’m so lucky to be where I am and often feel I don’t deserve it. Hearing things like that make me feel bad and like I’m taking up a place that someone else deserves.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

A Tale of Two Boners Losers

FTFY 😉

Angela
Angela
8 years ago

Anything NWOslave has said about slavery is tainted by a previous comment some months ago about his desire of owning females as slaves. I believe he wanted two of them, but I’m not about to go back and search his filth for it.

But more importantly, slavery might have been the fourth grade test answer to why the Civil war was fought. Those precious white Christian men died over states rights, and in fact the civil war didn’t end slavery as slave owning northern states were still allowed to own slaves after the war.

So, yeah. Slavery is bad, unless it involves women, then it’s okay and should be allowed.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Everything NWO says is tainted. He hates everyone except his own brand of white, straight, reactionary, fundamentalist Christian men. He either lies or fantasises (I don’t know and don’t really care whether he sincerely believes his own drivel) about everything from politics to religion to history to statistics. In fact tainted isn’t so much the word as toxic.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

Punk bands take all the good names.

I recently came across one band who called themselves The Tampoffs.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

Anything NWOslave has said about slavery is tainted by a previous comment some months ago about his desire of owning females as slaves. I believe he wanted two of them, but I’m not about to go back and search his filth for it.

NWO doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with slavery. He has not only shared his fantasy of having female slaves, he’s stated outright that women should be slaves to men. NWO just doesn’t think that he should be a slave.

And of course he’s too stupid to realize that white, christian men were fighting other white christian men during the Civil War. He’s too stupid to realize that black christian men fought in the Civil War too.

Basically, NWO is too stupid.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I gigglesnorted at “The Tampoffs.”

Gametime
8 years ago

But more importantly, slavery might have been the fourth grade test answer to why the Civil war was fought. Those precious white Christian men died over states rights, and in fact the civil war didn’t end slavery as slave owning northern states were still allowed to own slaves after the war.

Well, they fought over the states’ rights to have slavery. It’s true that the Civil War wasn’t fought to end slavery, but it was very much fought over slavery.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

I wonder if NWO got his head caught in a milking machine and it sucked his brain out? It would explain a great deal.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Seraph
“I know I shouldn’t engage, but…NWO, I have to ask: is your central point (that white Christians are better than anybody else because they’r ethe only ones who’ve ever fought to free a slave race that wasn’t them) at all diminished by the fact that the slave owners they were fighting were also white Christians?”

Au contraire. Theres plenty of blame to go around for everyone. The evil white Christians may have been the majority of the population, proportionality show a different picture. Rough estimates are 2% of European Christians, 3% of native americans and 40% of European Jews owned slaves. Ya see, everybody took a piece of the slavery pie.

Also at the time of the great slave, rum trade, the African nobilty measured their wealth by the number of slaves they owned. They traded black slaves for rum, native american and white slaves. Here’s a little quote for ya, “Records show that some Native American women bought African men as slaves.”

The point I’m trying to make is….Stop making out slavery to be an exclusive white Christian men thing. Everybody had their dirty little paws in slavery over the millenia. Everybody. Nobody is free of guilt. And yeah, that was a pretty damned noble thing those evil white male Christians did. Everybody here is so damned quick to point out how bad the evil white Christians men are. Would it kill any of you to say that maybe, just once in the history of the world, white Christian men did something that didn’t wanna make ya puke?

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

He did get one thing right, which is surprising: “The fact is, no matter where you go, for most of history slavery was everywhere.”

Yes, a lot of civilizations did use slaves to varying degrees. Of course, in the context of the rest of that post it looks like NWOslave is appealing to tradition.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Yes, saying that most of history sucked in that respect (ditto the treatment of women in too many cultures) is not the lesson NWO would take away from that. Because milk machine.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I don’t think a milk machine caused his stupidity. I think he has lovingly curated and cultivated it from an early age.

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

[I]n fact the civil war didn’t end slavery as slave owning northern states were still allowed to own slaves after the war.

Yes, technically, it was the 13th amendment that ended slavery, not the war. Do you have a citation for northern slave-holders carrying on after the war?

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

I found the image of a milk machine sucking his brain out kind of appealing. (Zombie milk machine, perhaps?) But yeah, he really works on that perfect balance of stupidity and malice, doesn’t he?

Biot
Biot
8 years ago

NWO’s sophistry was bad enough without bringing “the white man’s burden” into the mix. It does fit his character of holding the (white Christian?) man on a pedestal and framing the Civil War and all the other wars white Christian men were in as a noble cause without any hint of ulterior motives.

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

But more importantly, slavery might have been the fourth grade test answer to why the Civil war was fought. Those precious white Christian men died over states rights,

Hate to argue when someone is mocking NWO, but the right to own slaves was very much the “states’ right” in question. Ta-Nehisi Coates has a whole series discussing how the founders of the Confederacy proudly proclaimed as much in their Declaration of Independence, their Constitution, and especially their personal writings.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

And wasn’t their “right” to spread slavery to the new territories part of it, as well? Pardon me if I’m getting it mixed: my knowledge of this Civil War comes mostly from Ken Burns’s series. It’s not exactly terra cognita in Oz!

inurashii
inurashii
8 years ago

@Seraph – *golf claps*

Shaenon
8 years ago

NWO, the white Christian men who fought to free African-Americans did indeed act nobly. But those people were enslaved in the first place by other white Christian men. And white Christian men also fought bitterly for the right to keep them enslaved.

So, as great as some white guys were, I’m not quite on board with your version of history, where slaves just sort of existed, with no one actively enslaving them, until white men as a group stepped forward to free them. Some white men were great. Some sucked. Just like all people

Many women and non-white people (male and female) also worked to end slavery. Some fought in the Civil War. Check out the story of Mary Walker, the U.S. military’s first female surgeon and the only woman to be awarded the Medal of Honor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Edwards_Walker

Would it kill you to say that maybe, just once in the history of the world, women did something that didn’t make ya wanna puke?

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

@Kitteh – that was part of it, yes. Part of the shameful compromise that allowed the Constitution to be ratified (see 3/5ths of a person) was that Free States and Slave States would be admitted to the Union in equal numbers. As time went on, there was violent fighting in the Territories as to whether they would be Slave or Free (look up “Bleeding Kansas”), and eventually there were just too few territories that wanted to become Slave States.

Another part was that the Slave States felt that the federal government wasn’t being active enough, at least not when it came to enforcing the Fugitive Slave Law.

In the end, the problem was simply this: the South saw power slipping away from them, and their entire economy and social structure was based on a system that was becoming more and more unpopular. If you think Americans can get a bit scary over “they want to take our guns away”, it’s a pale shade of “they want to take our slaves away”.

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

@NWO – so your whole argument basically amounts to yet another version of “We hunted the mammoth”. Gotcha.

Angela
Angela
8 years ago

States rights trumped slavery. The northern states, industrializing at a much faster rate, had enough immigrants that they didn’t need to own the workers, and in fact, when a slave cost between 15,000-40,000 today’s dollar, it wasn’t economic. There were a lot of people back in the 19th century that truly believed that slavery was wrong for all the right reasons, but after the war was over, the states that fought on the northern side of the war that still owned slaves were still allowed to own their own slaves. The emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves in the south.

In 1787 the Philadelphia Convention compromised that while slaves were people, they were only worth 3/5ths of a person, which meant that taxation wasn’t equal across the land. Slave owning states were getting more money from the government to be used by fewer white people, which gave them a definite economic advantage.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Thanks, Seraph!

I remember the part about Kansas and what happened there – and the runaway slaves situation, the grotesque Dred Scott decision in particular.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

@Seraph – Nah, Ayla was out there hunting mammoth alongside Jondalar and the Mamutoi.

Hey, Jean Auel’s stuff bears at least as much resemblance to history as anything the MRM spouts. 😉

Rahu
Rahu
8 years ago

Hey, NWO – what about, instead of glorifying past accomplishments, doing something now?

“There are more slaves today than were seized from Africa in four centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade.” source – http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0309/feature1/

(Also, quick reminder – you’re in prison because I completely ruined your life a couple of weeks back – thought you might have forgotten.)

drst
drst
8 years ago

Um, so, around 1800 there were maybe 8,000 Jewish people in North America, according to the rough data. The number of Jews doubled over the course of about 50 years, and the majority of the immigrating Jews moved to the northeast, especially New York City, after 1825. The US outlawed the importation of slaves in the early 1800s.

The US population in 1850 was estimated to be 23 million, including 3 million slaves. Of that, at least 8 million people lived in the South.

So NWO’s argument is that 6400 Jewish people (40%) owned slaves. While living in New York City. Where it was illegal to own slaves. When the majority of those Jews had arrived in the US AFTER it became illegal to import slaves. And those 5 million white Christians in the South, which is where the 3 million slaves mostly were, are innocent and noble.

In the immortal words of Bill Cosby, “Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.”

http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/lpa/census/1990/poptrd1.htm

Shaenon
8 years ago

A white man set them free!

captainbathrobe
captainbathrobe
8 years ago

Buck up Slavey! If current trends continue, we may even have a White Christian Man as president some day. Some day….

Angela Jones-Parker
8 years ago

Your kitten pics=win

Lawndart
Lawndart
8 years ago

I first thought the whole “Zeta masculinity” thing involved the AVFM crowd getting their revenge on those darn feminists by joining Los Zetas, the Mexican drug cartel, but then I realized that could never happen because Los Zetas do more than sit around and whine about things.

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

States rights trumped slavery.

The States’ Right in question was slavery. This has been pointed out to you. Stop acting like it hasn’t been.

From their own mouths:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America#A_revolution_in_disunion

From the Confederate Constitution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_Constitution#Slavery

the states that fought on the northern side of the war that still owned slaves were still allowed to own their own slaves. The emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves in the south.

2-D Man has already asked you for a citation on this. Please don’t ignore him.

And finally, answers from someone much more eloquent than myself:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/the-republic-of-winston/68457/

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/04/lies-damn-near-everyone-told-me/237244/

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

The northern states, industrializing at a much faster rate, had enough immigrants that they didn’t need to own the workers, and in fact, when a slave cost between 15,000-40,000 today’s dollar, it wasn’t economic.

What a strange thing to say….

Angela
Angela
8 years ago

I didn’t read the section asking for a reference: “The Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves in the United States. Rather, it declared free only those slaves living in states not under Union control.”

From:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h1549.html

If union states fought against the confederation, they got to keep their slaves.

And I’m not saying slavery wasn’t a factor of states rights, but it wasn’t the reason. Why would the union allow states who still owned slaves to fight for them if the war was fought over slavery? The union cared more about the extra support than they did the slavery issue.

The 3/5 compromise was forcing the northern states more taxes than the southern states. The south then believed they had the right the quit the union and the federal government said they didn’t.

There were dozens of reasons why the war was fought and slavery is among them, but it wasn’t the only reason and it wasn’t the main reason.

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

And I’m not saying slavery wasn’t a factor of states rights, but it wasn’t the reason.

Actually, yes it was. You were given citations. Read them, if you want us to keep treating you as if you’re arguing in good faith. You have officially run out of benefit of the doubt.

Why would the union allow states who still owned slaves to fight for them if the war was fought over slavery?

Because it was the Confederacy who went to war over slavery (yes they did, read the citations). The Union, which wouldn’t have been willing to go to war over slavery, was willing to go to war to preserve the country.

2-D Man
2-D Man
8 years ago

I didn’t read the section asking for a reference: “The Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves in the United States. Rather, it declared free only those slaves living in states not under Union control.”

I didn’t dispute the accuracy of that statement; I did dispute its relevance given the passage of the 13th amendment.

The 3/5 compromise was forcing the northern states more taxes than the southern states. The south then believed they had the right the quit the union and the federal government said they didn’t.

That’s a non-sequitur.

Angela
Angela
8 years ago

And I know I’m harping on this, but one of the problems with freeing slaves today in places in this world where slavery is still legal/not prosecuted is that without education and support, NGOs can go into areas and free all the slaves and not fix the problem. The photographers go home with a feel good story and the slaves are right back into the same situation that they were before they were “freed”.

And while the people who go in to free slaves will never purchase someone from their masters, it still costs approximately $150 dollars per person to provide the education and support necessary to allow the newly freed person to support his or herself and family.

The emancipation proclamation was incomplete for several reasons. Racism existed and still exists today on both sides of the line regardless of who which side was shooting at when.