Categories
alpha males antifeminism grandiosity I'm totally being sarcastic melodrama men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny reactionary bullshit self-congratulation

Melodramatic MGTOWer: “Though they may deny it, [women] are, in essence, overgrown children crying out for leadership.”

Women love manly men!

Here’s a bit of, er, “wisdom” about women, plucked from the “Best Of” forum on NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum, and highlighted by our dear friend MarkyMark on his blog. Forgive the melodramatic phrasing; All MGTOWers Are Like That.

Take it away, TQR:

Your eyes are open now. You have finally put 2 and 2 together and realized the “modern woman” and everything about her is an illusion. Everything you, me, and millions of other men, both young and old have been raised to believe is a lie. Women really are the weaker sex. They aren’t equal and the worst part? They never were. …

For those who have the courage to face the truth about modern society, women, relationships, and marriage there is an upside. You’ll begin to gain a greater sense of self as a man and you will begin to understand your own worth. You’ll no longer find desperate fulfillment in the arms of a woman, but instead you’ll find fulfillment in your beliefs, your faith, your principles, your intelligence, your strength, and your natural authority. You are a man. You are the Father, the Husband, and the Adult. You lead, women follow. …

You are like a parent that has realized how spoiled, selfish, and arrogant the children have become. You begin to see them for what they are and instead of giving in to their selfish demands, whining, and temper tantrums you start setting rules, defining boundaries for behavior, and exacting discipline. You become a rock that cannot be moved or manipulated by them. Naturally the child will kick and scream and yell and fight you. But ultimately, the child will appreciate the fact that you have given their life what they’ve needed all along – order. Modern woman are no different . Though they may deny it, they are, in essence, overgrown children crying out for leadership because order brings comfort, security, and safety – everything women today desperately seek. Ironically, the very thing women rage against the most – submission – is the very thing they need.

Also, as you regain your manhood, don’t be surprised if women actually find you more attractive now. We are men. We have been raised to believe that being a man is bad – that masculinity is offensive. That testosterone is a disease men need to be cured of because it offends and scares women. No. Masculinity only scares women because it reminds them of what they aren’t and what they will never be….MEN. We already are what women want – by birth. Unfortunately, once you see women for what they are, it’s hard to say the same about them.

Yeah, I’m sure women are totally beating down TQR’s door, hungering for his manly mixture of misogyny and desperate self-delusion.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

159 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
reymohammed
reymohammed
8 years ago

It’s eerie how this guy’s screed mirrors those women who say men are big babies in search of an eternal tit.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Oh, I remember the modesty survey. Even if you ignore the underlying faulty logic (that women and girls are responsible for whatever random things might cause horny teenage boys to think about sex, which they shouldn’t be thinking about because…why?), the specific stuff they called out was just so over the top and ridiculous. Boobs bouncing when girls walk make you “stumble”? What are the girls supposed to do about that – not walk? Personal hovercrafts for everyone with boobs?

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@ EEB: That’s just so incredibly fucked up. I’ve said before that in my early teens i was hanging out a lot with youths from the local baptist church, and most of them intended to postpone sex until marriage. But we would go bathing together in the summer in, you know, actual BIKINIS. Somehow this didn’t cause the guys to just throw themselves at us and rape us. Seriously.

estraven
estraven
8 years ago

On homeschooling: We homeschooled our son through his last year or so of high school. He was so unhappy and unproductive that it just made sense. He taught himself computer programming, took classes at a community college, and got accepted to the U of Michigan when all was said and done. Our daughter is homeschooling her two kids. I’ve met a lot of the parents and kids in her homeschooling group, and I’m impressed. Not segregating the kids by age makes for a very different group compared to public school. Mostly the parents are quite invested in checking out how their kids are doing compared to their age group in public schools, as far as skills/learning go. There are different reasons for the decision to home school, from severe food allergies to distrust of the public system and everything in between. One thing is for sure, the kids in this group get plenty of time with other kids and the world at large. They aren’t sheltered from The World as can be the case with fundamentalist/patriarchal homeschooling.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Also, I wonder about the boys and how they cope with that stuff. If you’ve been trained to see your own sexual feelings as sinful and feel bad for having them for years and years, how can you then transition to even a very traditional and conservative marriage? Do they end up feeling guilty every time they catch sight of their wives and find them sexy? It just seems like it’s setting the boys up to be miserable too.

Off to read Sierra’s post.

reymohammed
reymohammed
8 years ago

Well, y’know, EEB, that whole outlook can be summed up as every woman (and girl, and even little girl) has a horseshoe magnet in her panties, and every man and boy has an iron bar in his Jockeys, and if a female human being gets an iron bar rammed into her horseshoe, it’s her fault for walking too close to it without shielding her magnet enough. And just wait, some MRA will use that exact analogy in all seriousness.

EEB
EEB
8 years ago

Also, another point for the “this is a cover for pedophiles” side…

Bill Gothard was the undisputed leader at my church. Yeah, a lot of these other writers and organizations had influence, but Gothard was the king. His word was law. (Honestly, they followed his rules more strictly than they ever followed the Bible.) And he had rules for everything…how to give birth (at home, with a midwife), how to have sex (never use protection, even if having another child will kill you–God will close your womb or give you the ability to carry the child, plus we’re supposed to “present our bodies as living sacrafices”–no sex on Sunday, when you’re on your period, and a few other rules I can’t remember now), how to parent (your typical authoritarian, borderline abusive rules), how to get married (parent guided courtship only), even how women should do their makeup (emphasize the eyes, not the mouth).

Well, some ex-followers have started pointing out many of the problems with the movement, including stories from several girls about the sexual abuse they endured, some of it from Gothard himself. I cannot tell you how completely unsuprised I am. A misogynistic, controlling asshole is sexually harassing his teenage interns, and using his religious conferences to pick vulnerable young women? Wow, I’m shocked.

Honestly, while I’m mostly disgusted (and sometimes amused) by a lot of these people, Gothard is the only one I truly hate. When I was thirteen, a good friend of mine (actually, she was the first girl I ever fell in love with) attempted suicide because of him. See, Gothard taught that if you looked at someone romantically before you were ready to get married, that was a sin. If you thought of a boy as anything more than a brother in Christ, it meant that you didn’t love Jesus enough. I remember listening to her cry, “I’m trying! I want to love Jesus! But I can’t help thinking about how cute ____ is,” sobbed like she was confessing some horrible crime. The stress of that, plus all the other rules and expectations of the program (and her fucked up family, to be honest), brought her to swallowing a bunch of pills when she was 14. Then her parents sent her away–not to someplace where she could get help, oh no, even though they could have more than afforded a good program–they sent her to Gothard HQ to work for the summer (not that she got paid, it was all “volunteer”), completely cut off from her friends (mail in and out is tightly controlled, and of course they had no access to the internet).

So, I hate that fucker.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Personal hovercrafts for everyone with boobs?

Yes! Yes yes yes! Where’s my personal hovercraft?

DM
DM
8 years ago

“Also, I wonder about the boys and how they cope with that stuff. If you’ve been trained to see your own sexual feelings as sinful and feel bad for having them for years and years, how can you then transition to even a very traditional and conservative marriage? Do they end up feeling guilty every time they catch sight of their wives and find them sexy? It just seems like it’s setting the boys up to be miserable too.”

Cassandra,

My husband grew up in this sort of community, and it has left him with some… interesting hang ups. He grew to closely associate sexual feelings with the guilt of doing something that he ought not to do, and the result is that anytime he or I do something that’s impractical, imprudent, or unhealthy he gets an erection.

And it doesn’t have to be something big or even sexual. I have seen the man get aroused over the thought of eating a cheeseburger, because it would mean cheating on his diet. I’ve been jumped before because I wasn’t sorting the laundry the way one ought. If I wear a short skirt or have a beer, he is completely done.

On the whole, he is pretty well adjusted- we all have our kinks, and he accepts and laughs about his. But I don’t believe that would be true for him if he hadn’t been able to step outside the community in early adulthood and gain some perspective on how unhealthy it can be.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I can’t stop reading the links. Take this guy, for example – he’s just so FUNNY.

http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/news_and_reports/what_hath_darwin_wrought.aspx

British citizens were supposed to be happy in 2009. They are not.[1] This is an awkward disappointment for Britain’s social engineers, who had engineered a full year of celebratory splendor to honor a favorite son. 2009 was to have been the year of triumph for Charles Darwin — the greatest social engineer of them all.

A full year of celebratory splendor. It was supposed to be like a royal wedding, with important people waving from carriages and cheering in the streets! That this did not happen totally proves that Darwin was wrong and that the “totalitarian scientist class” is being rejectedby the British people, wacky dominionist dude.

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

@CassandraSays: yes. Conservative churches produce people who are deeply conflicted about their sexuality; it’s one of the reasons porn use is rampant among the Bible Belt.

@estraven: er. I homeschooled in the super-Patriarchal system–and it was more or less identical to what you’re describing. It’s stood me in good stead through the years. I mean, except for all the garbage indoctrination.

Nova
Nova
8 years ago

@ Cassandra: Exactly. The sad part is that this man has a daughter…

What’s sad is that it’s not even the pedo factor that’s the worst thing about this movement. How they treat women and children in these families is CPS worthy in some cases.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I’ve been reading the links about “child training” and it’s even more horrible than I expected. Beating an infant because it squirms while its diaper is being changed?

Since Manboobz is all about using mockery as a way to ease the pain of knowing that people like this exist, I offer another lulzy article from Mr Botkin.

Fourth, there is a steep personal cost to the happiness of the real Sarah Palin. Simly put, Mrs. Palin’s political assets have been shrewdly exploited at the expense of her most valuable personal asset: her family. In exchange for a celebrity spot in the world of political power, Sarah Palin has sacrificed the position of influence that could have had a bearing on solving America’s deepest problems: her position as an attentive wife and mother.

Yes, dear, I’m sure Palin appreciates your deep concern for her emotional wellbeing.

http://visionarydaughters.com/2008/09/the-miraculous-sanctification-of-the-republican-party-by-geoffrey-botkin

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Also! Apparently American football can be added to the list of activities that are unacceptable as they incite lust and lead people to stumble. Can’t say it’s ever worked that way for me, but there you go.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

I know we all know this, but a problem with strong lines of thinking regarding modesty is that victim blaming and confirmation bias become interchangeable- are one in the same.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

Guys have issues with their masculinity if it requires women to be second class.

EEB
EEB
8 years ago

@ CassandraSays

Well, I did once infuriate my brothers (all played Varsity Football in High School) when I admitted I didn’t understand why football was coded for the “straight” guys and drama was for the gay kids. Like, I was a huge drama geek in high school, and you’d think the straight boys would be all over that…part of a group that is mostly girls, very close and touchy-feely, and with backstage costume changes and pre-show make-up drama, your chances of seeing a half-clothed girl near 100%. Football, on the other hand…all guys, tumbling all over each other on the field, slapping each other’s asses, showering together every day….but that’s what draws the straight dudes? They, uh, didn’t appriciate the observation. (Also! Joking! Of course straight kids join drama and gay kids play football; I’m just playing with the stereotypes.)

Somehow I don’t think this is what they were referring to, though.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
8 years ago

EEB:

I read (I can’t remember where) a pretty horrifying account of a teenage guy undergoing “conversion therapy” (so glad that California outlawed that for teens–now other states can follow suit). He did talk about going to football games to try to make him straight and it, uh, not working.

When it comes to homeschooling, I think it should be an option–especially for those who have tried to the public school system and found it wanting–but not without some pretty strict oversight, both on academics and to make sure that it isn’t a cover for abuse. One of the problems with the modern system in the US is that there is effectively no regulation, and homeschooling removes the best chance children have for coming into contact with adults who can say “You know, that isn’t right” and get them help.

I do think community college as an alternative to high school is an excellent choice, though I wouldn’t call it homeschooling. My sister took the last took years of high school at the local CC full time and loved it–and the school district even paid tuition!

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

I do use logic but I had nothing else to add on that thread or that topic. I’m a man, so I don’t have an obsessive need to always get in the last word.

Otis!

You showed up, told everyone you were dropping Truth Bombs, said something, and left. I know you’re only here to help us and all, but when you leave like that it looks like maybe you can’t use logic. And if you really just want to drop Truth Bombs, then whatever statement you want to make should be fairly easy to present as a rational argument, you know?

It’s not really about getting the last word or whether or not you’re a man. It’s about whether or not you’re willing to engage in logical, rational discussion.

It looks like you’re not 🙁

EEB
EEB
8 years ago

@wordsp1nner

I cannot tell you how happy I am that they got rid of conversion therapy for minors! (Although for many kids it’ll just get covered up and called something else…I’m under no illusions that it’s going to stop for all kids, but hopefully it’ll put an end to those sick camps.) It doesn’t just destroy individual children, it destroys families when those “success stories” go on to marry (many times, each other) and they realize after years and a couple kids that they just can’t continue the facade.

And I completely agree about homeschooling regulation! I think homeschooling can be wonderful if it’s done well, and the parents care about educating the whole child (including involving them in social activities). But when I was homeschooled as a kid, my mom was so busy that I literally wrote my own lesson plans, did the work, than graded my own assignments and tests (Mom did grade essays and research papers). And I did that in between baby-sitting, cooking, and taking care of the house. It’s only because I really really enjoyed school that I learned anything, and as it was, I was way behind in math when I made it to college because I’d never learned how to do it properly. And I had friends who were much worse off than I was…a good friend of mine was quite intelligent, but she was also the third of fifteen children, and didn’t learn how to read until she was 10. And several of the parents were very open about the fact that they didn’t spend a lot of time on their daughter’s schooling…the important thing was for them to learn how to take care of their brothers and sisters, teach the little ones, keep house, cook, etc. (And isn’t it funny how all of these mothers of 15+ kids have the same philosophy about how their daughter’s time should be spent…it couldn’t just be that they know it’s impossible to raise and educate that many children without significant help, right?) After all, the girls weren’t going to college and they certainly weren’t ever going to work…they were going straight from Dad to Husband, and all they needed to know was how to be a good wife and mother. And this is all perfectly legal.

(Also, and I don’t know if it’s even possible to legally adress this, much of the study materials these families use is almost worse than no schooling at all. History and Science books are full of staright up lies, and usually more than a little racism, homophobia, and misogyny. I think it’s abusive to utterly brainwash your kids like that. They fill them with so much false information that it becomes difficult for them to navigate the real world, if they ever escape, and terrorize them with lies so they’ll be too afraid to leave.)

And, like you said, there has to be someone to catch the kids who are being abused. People find this hard to believe, but I know from experience that most of these children will never have a meaningful encounter with a non-fundamentalist Christian. The only people they allow their children to talk to think and act just like they do. There are list of approved Christian doctors (who won’t complain when you bring your infant in with “failure to thrive” because you’ve been following the Ezzo’s Babywise plan, or ignoring and beating your infants a la the Pearls), Christian sports leagues, even Christian-owned buisnesses (so you can smack your child in the store without worrying about somone calling 9-1-1!) All the people who would normally catch abuse are out of the picture. That is why I strongly urge people, from the bottom of my heart: if you think a child is being abused, <i<please call the authorities. You may be that child’s only hope; don’t count on someone else catching it. You can report anonymously. It’s better to annoy an innocent parent with a visit from CPS than to allow abuse to continue. Look at the article on the Pearls above: multiple parents across the country have killed their children while trying to follow their plan for discipline. You could be saving a life.

Melody
8 years ago

I’m not sure if you guys are talking a specfic church or not, but have you heard about the North Carolina church where they Kidnapped a gay man (who admittedly was a member of their church) in the hopes of converting him back to straightness? And when that failed they kicked him out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/22/north-carolina-man-word-of-faith-fellowship-confinement-gay_n_2001895.html

EEB
EEB
8 years ago

@ Melody: *splutter* I don’t even…the hell…I just…they…

What the fuck is wrong with these people?!?

Fitzy
Fitzy
8 years ago

The discussion of the fundamentalist homeschooling “curriculum” makes me think of some documentaries I’ve seen about Amish teenagers. The filmmakers followed them during their party year, rumspringa, when the kids get a chance to dip their toes into mainstream culture while the rest of the community politely turns their heads. Several of the kids interviewed talked about how they might like to live like an average American. The education they’d received as Amish youth (which ends after the equivalent of 8th grade) made it impossible for them to make it in the real world. Keeping the kids sheltered and ignorant seemed to make it a given that most kids would stay in the community; at the time that the films were made, about 90% of Amish youth ultimately chose to stay in the church.

It’s a pretty slick little piece of social engineering. Make it so that kids don’t know about anything they might be missing… and if they are tempted by the outside world, make it so that they can’t hack it there.

Fitzy
Fitzy
8 years ago

OT, but I think we could all use a laugh right now. Here’s a pretty damned funny remembrance of a Mississippi Southern Baptist church’s alternative Halloween party, which included a “holy wiener” roast and a tract-or-treat:

http://friedchickenforthesoul.blogspot.com/2008/10/holy-wiener.html

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

@EEB

I’ve actually seen ads for fundamentalist boot camps for kids in a few California magazines. They’re packaged as “boarding school for troubled teens”, but at one point I decided to Google some of the names and yep, they’re fundamentalist boot camps, Pentacostal associated as far as I could tell (this was before I encountered stuff like Joel’s Army, so if there were any dogwhistles I would have missed them). I wish I’d had a better idea of exactly what those “schools” were about at the time, because I would have pestered the magazines to stop running those particular ads. It’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that stuff like that is legal – kids die at those schools and the government doesn’t seem to be doing anything much about it.

Basically I think American culture leans far too heavily in the direction of assuming that parents have 100% authority over their kids, and not nearly heavily enough towards allowing the government to intervene when the kids are being mistreated. There have been problems with this in the UK too, but it seems like at some point social services over there caught on to the fact that what was happening to kids in Dominionist groups wasn’t just standard parents being assholes child abuse, and social workers are (at least in theory) now being trained to be on the lookout for that specific kind of abuse. The UK is a much more interventionist culture in general, though.

(I seriously think that this is one of those huge cultural divides that’s masked by a common language, attitudes towards the extent to which parents own children and the extent to which the government should be allowed to intervene in that relationship. The stuff that happens to kids in the situations you’re describing is one of the main reasons why I’m in favor of governments being able to intervene early and often, and one of my main misgivings about homeschooling, the way that it isolates kids from one of the major contact points in terms of tracking child welfare.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Maybe it’s just that my academic background is in psychology, but this was one of the most disturbing things to me in terms of reading up on dominionist groups.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/05/15/515505/-Cell-churches-personality-changes-and-coercion

Basically this harks back to the discussions we had about The Forum a while back – any kind of organized event/training program that can create a sharp change in personality type within a short period of time falls firmly under the heading of “brainwashing”.

(Also probably explains why I always found the behavior of people in those groups so baffling – I’m INTP, which doesn’t seem to exist within that setting, at least not after people have been through the conversion process.)

quantumsparkles
quantumsparkles
8 years ago

@CassandraSays:
Okay, so I generally lurk around here and all, but that article was definitely scary. I didn’t realize they could manipulate personalities like that.

I’m glad they mentioned the International Church of Christ as one of the creepy cults. When I was a freshman at college, I got invited to the [City Name] Church: the girl told me they were “non-denominational”. Since I’d gone to a non-denominational church for a while as a kid, I thought, “sure, why not”.

I have never been more creeped out by a church. When I first walked in, all sorts of congregants there came up to me to greet me and *hug* me, to welcome me to the church. Then the pressure! They pressured me into going to a “bible-study” group, which turned out to be a one-on-one recruitment session. I felt like I was just another tally mark on the recruiter’s wall! They use a guide book for recruitment called a “discipling” handbook full of leading questions and out of context bible quotes to pressure prospective members into agreeing with them. In particular, they are really agressive about the idea that there is only one way to interpret the bible, which really irked me even then. Oh, and they NEVER told me they were actually ICOC, bunch of lying skeezes. (When I looked them up later and found out they were not only a denomination, but also generally considered a cult, I was PISSED!)

I am SOSOSO glad I was super obstinate about what I believed. After I told them I wasn’t going to change my mind about baptism, they prayed for me to have my eyes opened so I wouldn’t be cast into hell, and then left me alone.

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

@quantamsparkles: ahh, ICOC. The slightly MORE culty cousins of my cult.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

@quantumsparkles

Eek! I managed to avoid attempts to recruit me as a young person by deadpanning “I’m a Satanist” (works well if you’re a surly goth), but there sure were a lot of them while my family was in Texas.

Some friends of ours from Guatemala got caught up in the dominionist church that took power there for a while, and at one point they took my parents to a service. I spoke to my mother on the phone shortly afterwards, and remember her going “what the hell did I just sit through? what was that?” over and over again.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

Well, there’s my next round of strange nightmares: cultists* who hug**, berating me for not finishing their social link.

*My main idea of ‘cultist’ comes from fantasy.
** No-one is allowed to hug me for religious reasons. They can hug for friendship reasons.

Also, I’m starting to think my religious-building-phobia is incredibly justified. Fortunately I live in pretty CofE areas…

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Oh, it gets way more weird than just hugging.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirty_Fishing

I believe the Children of God was the group River Phoenix was involved with as a child. Poor guy, no wonder he was so unhappy as an adult.

inurashii
inurashii
8 years ago

aaaaaaaaaaa nooooooo that is awful

quantumsparkles
quantumsparkles
8 years ago

haha, … I kinda like to think “beep boop, I like science” would have turned them off somewhat, too.

Oddly enough, the service itself wasn’t particularly weird or memorable the day I visited. It was the before and after that set off my alarm bells. Like, why did they insist I meet the pastor after the service? And the weirdly overly friendly thing really felt like they wanted something or were trying to con me. It was that over-eager used car salesman vibe. And seriously, hugging is not welcoming for me if I don’t know you.

But that “flirty fishing”? WTF is this shit?? I am just… Damn. Regular old love bombing is more than creepy enough.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

The Children of God still exist, by the way, though they’re now known as The Family.

The polygamy part I don’t care about at all (which makes talking to most people about the problem with that particular cult difficult, since they get hung up on that). It’s the fact that a very large percentage of the kids in the group were being molested that was a problem, along with the whole be a flirty fisher or get guilt tripped about how you’re letting the group down and not loving God enough crap.

I’m very huggy but would still find love-bombing uncomfortable. I experienced a mild version of that a few times via the parents of friends who were involved in various weird religious groups (one of whom decided to burn all her younger daughter’s fantasy novels, which I suppose is a good thing in the long run since it pushed both kids firmly into the “this is not for me” camp), and it was really creepy and uncomfortable. As soon as I met their parents I understood why they always wanted to come over to my house instead of hanging out at theirs.

(Well, also that my mum was a big fan of the “feed all the people delicious things any time they enter your home” school of hostessing.)

Falconer
8 years ago

I’ve known about flirty fishing for so long that I’m like, wait, you don’t know what that is? at first.

Then it’s all can I come live with you?!

I haven’t seen flirty fishing first-hand, but I would spend time with friends of mine who had recently become very Christian, and they would say things like, “We missed you in church this week!” My stock response to their invitations was a kind, “no, thanks!” but it got to feel awfully pushy.

They don’t do it anymore. They have a toddler, and spend all their affection on her, singing her religious songs and reciting John 3:16 at bedtime. I kinda wish they wouldn’t, but I don’t think they’re into the Pearls or would do anything to harm their kid.

Fitzy
Fitzy
8 years ago

CassandraSays, for a moment I thought the Children of God reboot was the same The Family as that secretive religious group that sponsors the annual National Prayer Breakfast in DC.

A quick Google nixed the horror, but for a moment I thought my brain was about to explode from Too Much Badness.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Argh, didn’t even think of that! No, much as I don’t like the Children of God, they’re not in any way linked to nefarious ultra-conservative religious groups that want to take over the world, as far as I know. In fact I really don’t think that the people who run the Prayer Breakfasts would be down with the whole free love thing.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

For some reason I read ICOC as iCock.

Falconer
8 years ago

Oh, I kind of assumed that they were the same The Family as that other The Family.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

If they were that would be comic book supervillain level evil. Would be an odd mix, though, between CoGs chaotic evil and the usual fundie tendency towards lawful evil.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Is one of these “the Family” groups associated with the whole C-Street group? When I Google the name I get a different cult, an Australian one, or a group of murderers from Adelaide. I know the American ones must be in there somewhere but I’m feeling lazy …

Falconer
8 years ago

@Kitteh’s: Yeah, one of the The Familys is associated with C Street and putting up Congresspersons free of charge. They’re the ones who host the prayer breakfasts for the government (which people go to because demonstrative piety is the 900-lb gorilla in the room).

The flirty-fishing The Family is another group, but I hadn’t heard of them until today.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

The non-Prayer Breakfast group is this one, formerly known as the Children of God, founded in California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_God_%28cult%29

And if you want an idea of what happened to the kids raised in the cult and you have a strong stomach, 3 siblings who eventually escaped wrote a book.

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Not_Without_My_Sister

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Random creepiness – one of the women who wrote that book was constantly abused as a child, and one of her abusers used to be in Fleetwood Mac.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Falconer, thanks. The name rang some bells with C Street – filthy low-lifes they are.

I remember the phrase flirty fishing from years ago (presumably when it was around; I may have overheard it from some Assembly of God bods I worked with in the early 90s) but didn’t know until now that it was actual forced prostitution aka rape. So stinking typical, isn’t it – the old “you don’t own your body, some man does” line in one of its many guises. Somehow I don’t see JC being hugely impressed with that sort of thing.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Cassandra – ta for the links, though I don’t know if my stomach is up to that.

Fleetwood Mac? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit …

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Also, cynical me has to point out that as different as the Assembly and the CoG might look on the surface, the only real difference is that one thinks women are personal property and the other thinks women are communal property.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

I just read an excerpt from Not Without My Sister.

fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck scumbags

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

The former Fleetwood Mac band member Jeremy Spencer was a member of the cult. On the regular dates we had, he would play a tape of saxophone music. The routine was, by now, familiar – undress, pray, kiss and then perform lewd acts for him.

The kid was 11 when this started happening.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Welp… I am never listening to Fleetwood Mac again. (Confession: I do not listen to Fleetwood Mac now, so this is no great sacrifice.)