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Choosy Women Are a Threat to Civilization, Part 2: Electric Boo-hoo-aroo

Damn these evil women and their diabolical preference for hunky dudes!

Everyone knows that choosy mothers choose Jif. But when it comes to men rather than peanut butter, apparently choosy women are choosing THE END OF CIVILIZATION by not choosing to date the sorts of nice fellows who later become bitter misogynistic Men Going Their Own Way. In a post over on MGTOWforums.com, Todd1968 spells out the dire “societal cost of women’s pickiness.” (And, yes, we’ve heard this complaint before.)

“[N]one of us came out of the womb as MGTOWs,” he writes.

Most of us arrived here after a long process, during which we struggled to resist taking the red pill.

While some of us arrived here after a nasty divorce, many, I believe, came here as a result of the “nice guy” syndrome: After discovering the extreme superficiality of women’s preferences in the dating market, we decided that the game wasn’t worth the candle. (This often included an encounter with a cynical gold-digger single mom who wanted us to foot the bill for a “bad boy’s” offspring. For me, this was the final straw.)

I’ll have “shit that never happened” for $500, Alex.

And so we become “loners.” The media likes to portray us as “dangerous”, and the .00001% of loners who do turn violent animate the news and the fem-centric blogosphere. The fact is, though, that 99.999% of us simply drop out of social interaction and courtship, or “ghost.”

While this is a solution that works for us, it is not socially optimal. Society would have been better served if we had become husbands and fathers.

Having read a good number of these bitter MGTOW rants, I’m pretty sure most of you dudes would make terrible husbands and/or fathers. I’m thinking that “society” dodged a bullet here.

And I believe that this is what most of us wanted at one time. For example, I talk a lot about escorts and sugar babies; but this wasn’t what I envisioned for myself at 20 or 25.

Women choosing not to date Todd1968? Superficial. Dudes paying money to have sex with “hot” women half their age? Super smart!

Here is the point: By choosing to exclude so many men from consideration, alpha-hunting feminists have taken a large number of good fathers (and their children) out of the population.

Uh, dude, you hate feminists. Why would you even care who they’re dating? Or have you conflated “feminist” with “all women,” as is so often the case with you dudes?

How many intelligent men will never be fathers because they were “boring nice guys” in their teens and 20s?

On the other hand, many women are going out of their way to breed with “bad boys,” who will shirk fatherhood completely.

In the world of MGTOW, when a father abandons a mother and child it’s always 100% the fault of the mother.

When looked at in the aggregate, modern feminist behavior in the dating pool has some quite deleterious effects for the future of society, wouldn’t you say?

Again, I’m having trouble seeing “women not dating so-called ‘nice guys’ who are actually misogynistic dickheads” as a major social problem.

Just in case you thought Todd here might actually be casting aspersions on Alpha Males, he clarifies his intentions with a second comment:

My point is certainly not to imply that all alpha males are dicks, or irresponsible. (The “bad boys” are another story, of course.) The problem isn’t the existence of a male hierarchy; the problem is the unrealistic expectations of the average woman.

Never blame men for anything; the blame can always be traced back to some evil woman.

The problem arose when feminism and entitlement ideology caused women to lose their grasp of what psychologists call “reciprocity.” It used to be that the 10% of alpha males took the top 10% of women; and everyone else paired up with their opposite gender equivalents. This meant that almost everyone got paired up.

[citation needed]

But … today’s woman regards the majority of men as “below average” or unattractive. That is a recipe for 90% of the female attention directed at 10% of the men–with the rest being all but ignored.

[citation needed again]

This doesn’t serve either men or women. Many of us know first-hand how it doesn’t serve men. But it also results in a lot of women becoming “Sex-in-the-City” spinsters.

Sex AND the city. Sex AAANNNNDDDD the City.

Seriously, dudes of the manosphere, if you’re going to cite a TV show that ceased production 8 years ago as your go-to cultural reference, at least get the name right.

For example, my cousin is 40 years old and single. In her prime, she was just attractive enough to become the second-tier choice of some alpha male; but she never made the final cut. Throughout her twenties and into her thirties, she slept with guys who were a notch above her league.

Uh, if they were happily sleeping with her, wouldn’t that suggest that they were actually in the same league? How do these leagues work, anyway?

Meanwhile, I remember a responsible “nice guy” who patiently hung around in her “friend zone” for years. (She used him as a social spare tire.)

If a woman hooks up with a “bad boy” and gets abandoned with a kid, this is completely the woman’s fault. If a “nice guy” hangs around with a woman who’s not interested in him for years on end, this is completely the woman’s fault also?

Finally, Mr. Nice Guy went away–along with the alpha males.

My cousin is no longer hot at all. Now she laments at Thanksgiving dinners about how her biological clock is ticking. I have tried to set her up with a few of my male friends. But of course, none of them match her expectations–which are still calibrated to the days when she was a mid-tier hottie.

Women rejecting a “nice guy” in favor of guys they think are hot = social calamity, and the fault of evil women.

Men rejecting women because they’re no longer “mid-tier hotties” = sweet, sweet justice!

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nerdypants
nerdypants
8 years ago

PS: Also, Cat Bounce is awesome, I just emailed it to all my feline-loving friends.

AndersH
8 years ago

Tea with MILK? I am going to flip this table, then I am GOING MY OWN WAY. There is only so much a person can take before they are pushed too far!

Kim
Kim
8 years ago

These quotes from Robert Wright are very similar to some of what I’m reading in Steven Pinker’s Better Angels of Our Nature – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature. I suspect I’ll find Daly, M. & Wilson, M, (1990) or Robert Wright in his sources too.

If I recall correctly, part of the “pacifying effect of marriage” is about young, single, disenfranchised men having less to lose so are more likely to resort to ‘honour’ based violence.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

The first time I saw a coffee shop serving matcha with milk and sugar I nearly did the same. I would say that we could go our own way together, but given the difference in gender that would clearly be against the rules.

(Also, you know what happens when you mix matcha, which is a powder, with water and don’t use the little traditional whisk thingy? You get a drink that’s powdery. Watery, sweet, powdery, vaguely tea-flavored milkshake. Blech.)

scarlettpipistrelle
8 years ago

They know this is just satire, right? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-clifford/should-men-get-to-vote_b_2018840.html But some MRA commenters have found it….

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

LOL, even on other sites they can’t resist getting in a little dig at David. And they still don’t understand the whole herbivore thing.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I have to wonder though, for the average HuffPo reader who has no idea what Manboobz is or that it even exists, how are they going to interpret that comment?

It’s like when boredstick tries to bring his little vendetta against Atheism+ over here. Don’t do that, guys – it’s not only bad manners, it’s confusing for people who have no idea WTF you’re on about.

scarlettpipistrelle
8 years ago

I’ve also seen Uncle Elmer make evangelizing forays on places like Forbes in the comments sections. One overarching impression I get is that the MRA-ers either haven’t heard of global labor arbitrage or aren’t factoring in its effects when they get to theorizing about the Way Things Are These Days. Everything gets blamed on women. We must be goddesses with superpowers. But I never got that memo.

kysokisaen
8 years ago

I always felt that matcha was matcha and should not be anything else. It works in Japanese sweets, and you can actually make a reasonable matcha syrup to put on a matcha icee, but everything else is bleh. Matcha frappucinos are the worst.

Fitzy
Fitzy
8 years ago

If 80/20 was really a thing, we’d all be living in a terrible reality show.

kysokisaen has cracked the code! I think I finally understand the manosphere now – these fellas have based their entire theory of How Teh Wimmenz Werk on TV dating competitions.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Nerdypants:

Fortunately, male violence can be dampened by circumstance. And one circumstance is a mate. We would expect womanless men to compete with special ferocity, and they do. An unmarried man between twenty-four and thirty-five years of age is about three times as likely to murder another male as is a married man the same age. Some of this difference no doubt reflects the kinds of men that do and don’t get married to begin with, but Martin Daly and Margo Wilson have argued cogently that a good part of the difference may lie in the “pacifying effect of marriage.”

Do you know if they control for alcohol consumption? They don’t mention it in the abstract you link to, anyway. Spontaneously, my guess would be that single people drink more than married people on average, and we know that alcohol is usually involved in manslaughter. So that’s an alternative explanation to “evo-psych sexual selection” unless they’ve actually controlled for that.

Quiet Wolf
Quiet Wolf
8 years ago

If the MRA crowd is so interested in passing their genes on, why not find a surrogate? I mean, hell, they can even pick whose eggs they want to use.

Sure, this means they’d have the responsibilities of single-parenthood, but surely this is a small price to pay for the continuation of society itself?

I’d feel bad for the kid, though. God forbid they have a child that isn’t male…

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
8 years ago

@Dvarghundspossen the other thing to remember is that marriage has a lower bound threshold, and people are getting older (again) before they get married. So are people ageing out of a desire to drink larger quantities of alcohol, or is it marriage? The two factors are confounded.

With respect to observational studies, there is no control other than to take covariances into account. But you still can’t draw cause-and-effect relationships: that requires an experiment. Also, the base rate is ignored. Who cares if the murder rate goes from 1 in 3 million to 1 in 1 million, really? What we would like to see is the absolute rate, not the relative rate. If I said you had a current probability of 1 in 1 million of dying from X if you continued to eat carrots, and said that if you stopped eating carrots the probability would decrease to 1 in 3 million, and you liked carrots, would you change your behaviour? But what if I told you that not eating carrots would reduce your likelihood of dying from X threefold?

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

Nothing MRAs think about women’s dating patterns describes me. So do I just not exist, or what?

pecunium
8 years ago

Cassandra: “Alpha male” seems to mean “man who is getting laid, who I either dislike or am jealous of”. So it can mean almost anything providing that the dude in question is having sex.

Unless that man is a feminist appeasing mangina, who is only getting all that sex from 1: “ugly feminists”, and 2: only getting it from them to pay him off for selling out his fellow men; therefore it doesn’t matter how much nookie he gets, it wasn’t based on his being “alpha” but was actually because women are fickle bitches.

pecunium
8 years ago

Varpole: Do you have any evidence for this? In point of fact, I believe you are wrong, and suffering from confirmation bias. I previously viewed the so-called “80/20 rule” with skepticism – a result of my own privilege as someone who has been in multiple relationships – but after reading various MRA forums I’ve become more receptive to the idea.

Let me highlight two parts of that passage for you, which I think you failed to properly order; you may wish to consider using a copyeditor in future; I won’t always be willing to do this as a favor.

I previously viewed the so-called “80/20 rule” with skepticism – a result of my own privilege as someone who has been in multiple relationships – but after reading various MRA forums I’ve become more receptive to the idea. ought to precede, ‘>Do you have any evidence for this? In point of fact, I believe you are wrong, and suffering from confirmation bias.”

As to the actual question you pretend to be answering… have you looked around? Go to a social function (say a swing dance event), look at the people. Go to karaoke night at your local watering hole. Stroll past the neighborhood restaurants. Attend a convention.

Even in the, “geeks and nerds” communities, most people have partners/lovers.

You might want to talk to a tutor about research methodologies.

Secondly, the marriage statistics notwithstanding, I assume the 80/20 proponents are referring to premarital relationships.

WTF? So, that most peopl get married is immaterial to the truthiness of “20 percent of the men are tying up 80 percent of the women” because you want us to believe that it only applies to fucking that happens before marriage?

And, if you believe this… what are you (who admits to having a partner; while unmarried, and so a member of the “evil 20 percent keeping the rest of his fellow men in the vile condition of being, “incel”) doing to fix that? Are you giving up the monopoly you are holding on Ella’s physical affections?

No. You are being a greedy asshole, and engaging in a vile misandry against your less-fortunate brethren in The Movement.

NerdyPants, again, in each of those instances I’ve been able to make reasoned inferences w/ inductive reasoning; furthermore, I’ve yet to be proven wrong.</i

How would you know? You were ignorant of the facts, and seen to dismiss evidence. So when all was said and done you are still ignorant of the facts.

I see why that teacher said you were never going to make it as a writer.

But, as to your not being "proven wrong", let me point you to this direct disproof of one of your assertions

reymohammed
reymohammed
8 years ago

As a veteran of ancient wars, I can say that men have a long history of competing for arm candy to impress their peers, and a lady who wwas plain or merely inconspicuous was assumed to be both deficient in feminine worth and meanly envious of the fact. It looks like some of them don’t like the shoe being on the other foot.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Tea with MILK? I am going to flip this table, then I am GOING MY OWN WAY. There is only so much a person can take before they are pushed too far!

‘Ere, AndersH, you been talking to Mr Kitteh? 😀

reymohammed
reymohammed
8 years ago

By the way, is that an ancient Smiling Jack cartoon? Also, tea with milk is for people with ulcers. Real people drink it with lemon.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Kiwi:

@Dvarghundspossen the other thing to remember is that marriage has a lower bound threshold, and people are getting older (again) before they get married. So are people ageing out of a desire to drink larger quantities of alcohol, or is it marriage? The two factors are confounded.

Well, apparently they were comparing married and unmarried men of the same age. Otherwise it makes sense that people simply get less violent as they get older. However, my guess is that married 25-year-olds drink less on average than unmarried 25-year-olds. It seems to me that unmarried people tend to go out to bars and drink more than married people within the same age group. IF I’m right in this, it WOULD be a plausible explanation of the different violence rates, so I’d like to see a study where they control for this.

When it comes to cause and effect, well, you can sometimes do studies where the best explanation of a correlation is that it’s a case of cause and effect, even if you haven’t done an actual experiment. I’m just gonna give the researchers the benefit of the doubt and assume there’s some reason they think it’s probably not just a case of women choosing non-violent men for marriage, but also of men actually getting less violent after marriage. But even if that were the case, that there really is some kind of cause and effect here, it doesn’t have to be of the evo-psych kind they imagine. There could be simpler explanations, particularly if they haven’t controlled for factors such as alcohol consumption. Maybe married men are less violent because they drink less, maybe it’s because they tend to eat and sleep better than unmarried men, could be all kinds of stuff.

You’re also right about the carrot example of course. Lethal violence is rare in any group.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Hey, I just logged on to say that I hope any U.S. East Coast manboobzers and/or their loved ones are hunkered down safely on higher ground, with plenty of supplies to ride out the Hurricane Sandy. Take care!

Melody
8 years ago

Tea should be enjoyed without extras. Peppermint tea is sweet on its own.
Everyone drinks it differently, but obviously my way of doing things is the correct way.

😛

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

If you put sugar in peppermint tea you end up with something that tastes like a candy cane. Why would I want to drink Christmas candy?

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

Well, all the tea purists, prepare to be nauseated. I drink my tea with MILK AND SUGAR.

Bathroom is the first door to your left. Thank you. =p

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

Yes catnip belongs to the mint family. No you do not want to drink it unless using it as a remedy.

Have I mentioned how much really good Earth Final Conflict is out there?

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

Earth Final Conflict fanfiction. Yeesh.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Thing is, I actually like bitter and sour flavors, which is why sweetening teas that have those flavors confuses me. If you don’t like bitter/sour why not just drink things that are neither?

Milky black tea I will tolerate because it makes me think of my Granny. Or milky boba – for some reason the milky+tea combination is more appealing if you ice it and add tapioca balls.

AndersH
8 years ago

@Melody: you are totally correct, that way of doing it is the one and only objective way of enjoying tea. Unless you really feel that you need to put some Vana Tallinn in your beverage, because that goes in anything hot!

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

You know, the “fertile woman” thing really cracks me up, considering the number of men and women using contraception. Considering the frequency and length of time contraception is used, out and out sterilization, and abortion I do not believe that the fertility of humans is particularly valued. Certainly it is not valued by MRA and PUA types who sure as hell do not want the attendant responsibilities that fertility will bring.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

They want female fertility to be a thing that can be turned on and off at their command, like a light switch, basically.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

I want my fertility to be like a light switch. Nothing wrong with that, I just find it wierd that they go on and on about the importance of having a fertile woman when fertility is not a desirable trait to many of them.

I suppose they believe fertile woman sounds better than hot babe. As we all know, fertility and attractiveness are not particularly tied together.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I think it’s a power thing. I’ve encountered misogynists who get off on the idea that they can make (verb choice very much intended) a woman pregnant before. It’s not about wanting kids.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

I think it’s a power thing. I’ve encountered misogynists who get off on the idea that they can make (verb choice very much intended) a woman pregnant before. It’s not about wanting kids.

*cough cough REPUBLICANS ABORTION COUGH*

Also, count me with the blasphemers – I take English Breakfast with sugar.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

::high-fives pillowinhell and whataboutthemoonz::

TEA WITH MILK AND SUGAR FOREVER!

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

*adds high fives to (soy)milk and sugar tea people*

Or or or Latvian tea, which is black tea with blackcurrant cordial, dark rum and a slice of lemon, especially good if you have a cold.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

Maybe it’s because I’ve been Walking Dead fangirling, but I imagine us sitting on top of an RV with rifles in a protective circle around a tea set with sugar bowls.

Except that would imply that traditionalists are zombies, which is kind of no bueno.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I loooooove black tea with milk and sugar.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Maybe it’s because I’ve been Walking Dead fangirling, but I imagine us sitting on top of an RV with rifles in a protective circle around a tea set with sugar bowls.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAsnerk

Damn, there goes that cup of coffee …

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

Pillowinhell is now serving tea with milk and sugar on the balcony at Olympia.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

Milk and sugar!

kysokisaen
8 years ago

Good Tea should be enjoyed without extras.

Fixed that for you. A Lipton tea bag should be drowned in honey and lemon.

WeeBoy
WeeBoy
8 years ago

Just a dash of milk. Also kawakawa makes the best tea.

EEB
EEB
8 years ago

I’m continually astonished by how comfortable these guys are with massive double standards. Day after day we read posts about those nasty “old” women (like, over 35) who are so ugly and worn down after “riding the cock carousal” or whatever that they will never, ever get laid because no man, even those poor betas, would want them. And the response to those women who are not getting the sex/love that they want is, “HAHA B*****S! No one wants to bang an ugly chick! Or a feminist! (HEY THAT’S REDUNDANT LOL) Shoulda sucked my cock when you had the chance!”

But when they talk about the poor menz who aren’t getting laid, it’s all “WOMEN. HOW DARE THEY HAVE STANDARDS AN PREFERENCES. B*****s.”

So…women aren’t getting the sex they want, it’s because they are ugly or ill-tempered or whatever. Upshot is it’s their fault. If a woman tried to use the same sort of MRA language to complain about not getting any, they’d probably accuse her of attempted rape. Or of being an evil misandrist. But men not getting laid, that’s also the fault of the evil wimminz, and proves how misandrist the world is.

How do their brains not rupture from the stress of holding both these beliefs at the same time?!

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

How do their brains not rupture from the stress of holding both these beliefs at the same time?!

Perhaps because they’re of the “if they had another brain cell it’d be lonely” variety?

Nada
Nada
8 years ago

I’m beginning to think ‘bad boy’s are as I’ll-defined as ‘nice guys.’ Who are they? Who gets to define them? Are they really ‘bad’ to the women in their lives or are they just sexy?

Polliwog
8 years ago

I’m beginning to think ‘bad boy’s are as I’ll-defined as ‘nice guys.’ Who are they? Who gets to define them? Are they really ‘bad’ to the women in their lives or are they just sexy?

A “bad boy” is any guy who is getting laid and has one or more of the following traits:

– confidence
– a sense of humor
– a lack of patience with guys who whine incessantly about not getting laid
– a successful social life in general
– any trait that one can ridiculously twist into “badness” (e.g. a tattoo, a motorcycle, a job outside his parents’ basement)

As for who gets to define them, MRAs, obviously. It’s not like we can trust women to define things! They’d probably just menstruate all over the definitions!

(Funny story: a while back, my partner was called a “bad boy” by a whiny little jerk who was mad that I didn’t want to date him. My partner is a thirtysomething stereotypical-nice-Jewish-boy lawyer who calls his mom almost every day, loves his kitty cat, does frequent volunteer work, and whom I have personally witnessed helping little old ladies across the street. I was very much amused.)

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

OMG that makes Mr Kitteh a bad boy!

I can’t wait to tell him. Though it’d better be at home where he can land on a nice soft couch if he falls over laughing.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Polliwog, did the whiny little jerk ever explain why your boyfriend qualified as a “bad boy?” ‘Cause I’d love to here it.
I had two “Nice Guy” stalkers before, and I notice they all sound alike, you know?

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Pffft. I’d love to hear it…..stupid typo.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Hey, totally OT – anyone here like the Barchester Chronicles, the series that made Alan Rickman’s name? ‘cos I’m correcting a navigation chart that features Slope Island …