Over on the A Voice for Men forums – yes, they have forums – one Man Going His Own Way spells out exactly what he means by His Own Way. Here’s misterbill:
For me, MGTOW has three major components:
1. Refusal to cohabitate with a woman
2. Avoidance of fatherhood like the plague
3. Avoidance of being alone in a room with a strange woman (for fear of false accusations)
These are the core elements, IMO.
I’m not celibate, I get sexual satisfaction from several call-girls that I’ve built good rapport with over a few years. I’ll visit one of these women whenever I feel like it, usually once a month or so.
I have what I would describe as a female companion who others would describe as my girlfriend. We don’t have sex, not because I’m not attracted to her, but because my fear of possibly getting her pregnant petrifies me beyond belief. So we hang out 2 days a week and have very nice times together, going on about 5 years. She understands my beliefs and that we will never live together and that I don’t believe in the myth of love.
So I’m MGHOW, but not without women.
I’m 41 and fairly wealthy. In my 20s and through to of my early 30s ( although I wasn’t a PUA) I studied game theory and in combination with other aspects of my life, I had no trouble getting laid. Then a woman made a false accusation against me (and was further slandered by another), and I began to wake up to the perils of having sex with (and interacting with) strange women. The risks outweighed the benefits, and I turned to going my own way.
I travel on business frequently and the one exception to my rule with being alone with strange women is the easy pickings while traveling. There is a rule amongst many women that if you’re 500 miles away from home, it’s not cheating. I see this a lot with many married women. Gents, her vows mean NOTHING once she gets on a plane without you. Although I wouldn’t allow any of these women into my home, I accept the risk when I’m traveling. And there is always a risk of running into a psycho who is ready to explode.
I don’t really have any jokes here. But I will note that his story doesn’t make a lick of sense; I find it literally unbelievable.
He’s so paranoid about women because of a “false accusation” leveled against him back when he pursued women using “game theory” that he literally refuses to be in the same room with “strange women” – or even interact with them. Yet when he’s traveling he suggests he routinely has sex with “strange” married women. Huh? These women could still get pregnant; these women could still make accusations, false or otherwise, against him. Does he feel safe because he can skip town in a hurry to avoid the possible consequences of his actions?
He’s (allegedly) been involved in a 2-day-a-week relationship, for five years, with a woman he’s sexually attracted to. But he refuses to have sex with her because he’s terrified of getting her pregnant. If he’s that worried about getting her pregnant, and generally wants to “avoid … fatherhood like the plague,” why doesn’t he get a vasectomy? If, after he sleeps with a married woman in a strange city, she gets pregnant with his child, does he simply assume she’ll never be able to track him down?
I’m going to assume that most if not all of what misterbill is saying here is bullshit. But if he does indeed live his life in way that even vaguely resembles how he says he does, it’s a rather sad and strange and paranoid way to live.
I have heard that “X distance away, it isn’t cheating” thing before, but almost exclusively from men. And even the douchiest required more than 500 miles for a clean conscience.
Regarding this hormone “study.” Ms. Durante, the study’s author, is a professor of MARKETING (wtf?) who focuses on evo-psych. Shocking, I know.
http://business.utsa.edu/faculty/kdurante/
I’m super-amused by the grammar fail here:
From context, I can tell he means “Then a woman made a false accusation against me (and I was further slandered by another).” But without the “I,” the implied subject of “was further slandered” is “a woman,” not the speaker.
So basically he just said that this woman was slandered (a) when he said she made a false accusation against him and (b) when someone else slandered her too. That poor woman! Maybe you should stop slandering her, dude?
Actually it kind of implies that first he slandered her by accusing her of falsely accusing him of rape, and then another guy did the exact same thing.
Clearly this epidemic of sexist dudes falsely accusing women of false rape accusations is out of control.
@ sandy- Leaving aside whether they could be good men to women (*snort*), there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing a life of celibacy. Hell, usually it chooses you, so, ya know, preemptive strikes are just fine. But the bit about going their own way is such a steaming pile of shit. They cannot stop trying to get women’s attention and tell us why women are so deeply flawed, and this is why we have been deprived of their penises. That’s not going your own way, that is being a vocally sexist prick.
I’ve started to think that these types of people think false accusations are like an epidemic because they don’t know what rape actually is.
So many people admit to having committed or tried to commit a rape as long as the term rape was not used – even if the definition is still there. People do not know enough about rape.
And it doesn’t help that we live in a culture that actively enables this kind of behavior and way of thinking.
And, yeah, the guy keeps saying that he’s afraid of the possibility of fatherhood yet he still has sex.
Just having PIV intercourse with another person has the chance, even if a slight one, to conceive. Even with contraception. Unless he just never has PIV encounters with said women.
I also found the “myth of love” part hilarious, because we have all ready proven that love is a real, physical phenomenon. We can measure the hormonal effects and brain activity of people in love and have a somewhat good grasp on how it works.
So unless he ment the version of love that media keeps pushing on us, with it’s unrealistic expectations and true love forever with one soulmate and whatnot, his statement doesn’t really make sense.
Well, what he says makes little sense to begin with unless you try to twist it with, for example, the above mentioned rationale.
@ dani- On shitty writing I have nothing but sympathy for the dude- I just wrote a sentence that reads like we have been deprived of women’s penises.
I’d say learning to be happy without a romantic partner is a great thing that everyone should be encouraged to do. Being happy without a partner doesn’t exclude being happy with one it just means you don’t need someone so only date people you want to. MGTOW aren’t happy though. If they were they wouldn’t need to post about how they hate women and never want to be near them.
I don’t think any contradiction about his not being alone with strange women and the call girls. I assumed he just knew the call girls well. The people on business trips on the other hand. My guess is he considers them safe as he doesn’t give enough information or gives misleading information so the police can’t find him if an accusation is made.
Okay, it’s still weird that he can’t bang his not-girlfriend. He presumably knows her at least as well as the call-girls, and if contraception is enough to calm the fatherhood worries he has with the call-girls, it should be enough with the not-girlfriend too.
I’m telling you, it’s because he’s aware how little social status sex workers have and that in a situation where it’s his word against theirs, people will believe him. Basically he feels safe with sex workers because he knows how little respect society, and the legal system, gives them.
Thenatfantastic: Yeah, I saw that. Social Psychologists out of the shcool of marketing. I looked at some of the other papers she wrote… all bunk.
Dvärghundspossen: What! There might be more than one plausible cause to a correlation? Heresy! As Ruby has explained, once, SCIENCE, has found the answer no other interpretation is possible.
Otis: e. None of the above.
I think he’s asshole who thinks the world owes him something.
And you calling him a “retard” and, “a freak”, when all we are is calling him a liar, makes your claim that we are, “sick fucks” for “picking on him”, pretty funny.
In that, “we are laughing at you, not with you,” sort of way.
Go work on your pull-ups and take a schvitz.
Sounds like another one of those stupid Manosphere blogs or forum. Never heard of it until you just mentioned it in this short post.
@thenatfantastic oh my god I may have to write about this, okay if I quote you?
x
@elodieunderglass
Yeah sure, send me a link when it’s done 🙂
This guy (from David’s post) seems to me to have serious trust issues; maybe self-esteem issues, too, or a history of some kind of trauma. I wish he would get counseling (BUT HE WON’T B/C MGHOW).
@Pecunium: I know! Shocking, isn’t it!
@timetravellingfool
@ sandy- Leaving aside whether they could be good men to women (*snort*), there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing a life of celibacy. Hell, usually it chooses you, so, ya know, preemptive strikes are just fine. But the bit about going their own way is such a steaming pile of shit. They cannot stop trying to get women’s attention and tell us why women are so deeply flawed, and this is why we have been deprived of their penises. That’s not going your own way, that is being a vocally sexist prick.
The funny thing is a lot of these MGTOW guys aren’t even truly celibate. I mean I see Misterbill with escorts and have perused MGTOW blogs where they write about their escort experiences. They still desire women. It is all bullshit. These are just a bunch of angry dudes who have been hurt by a few women in their lives and put on a front that they have GTOW and given up on women Obviously, they still desire female companionship deep down inside, They are just too stupidly proud to admit it. Instead they form a so called movement with their buddies called Men Going Their Own Way
@pear_tree
I’d say learning to be happy without a romantic partner is a great thing that everyone should be encouraged to do. Being happy without a partner doesn’t exclude being happy
with one it just means you don’t need someone so only date people you want to. MGTOW aren’t happy though. If they were they wouldn’t need to post about how they hate women and never want to be near them.
Agreed, I also think some of these MGTOW guys are not so much angry at women that they don’t want to near them.I actually think these guys are afraid of women. Whether its some type of traumatic or bad experiences of the past that has made the afraid, but it is obvious. Their angry at what they fear. I did not mean to imply that celibacy is the wrong path but that if some of these MGTOW guys just decided to “forgive and forget” and “move on”, they could be a potentially good boyfriend or husband to a woman. But in reality as MGTOW they are a waste of good men.
misterbill : a poor, lonely, delusional, unloved, traumatized RAPIST. We should totes feel sympathy for him.*
*sarcasm alert
I get hung-up on the details. Like, who the hell calls prostitutes “call-girls” anymore? That’s so ’80s cop show.
When I read this guy’s story, all I can think of is the Church Lady saying: “Well, isn’t that special!”
“Clearly this epidemic of sexist dudes falsely accusing women of false rape accusations is out of control.”
I seem to recall a study in which 80 someodd percent of men studied (all were convicted sex offenders) said that they weren’t rapists.
Hell, just yesterday I watched a documentary in which a man said he’d never raped a woman, but he had “manipulated the situation”.
@ sandy- Yup, sounds about right. Funny thing is, I’ve been hurt by men. Many people here have been hurt by men. Many people here have been hurt by women. And yet here we all, all men and women, talking amongst ourselves, not demonizing each other and forming any ‘girls rule boys drool or vice versa’ clubs. And that’s what distinguishes mgtow from people who would actually make good partners. That and the guy who wrote that sounds like a rapist. Rapists are terrible partners and belong in prison.
PS: To use blockquotes: [blockquote] text I want quoted [/blockquote] only instead of [], use .
bah, stupid < things. use the < things instead of the [ things.
I honestly think that the only reason he is not scared of the whole fatherhood thing is he assumes that the women will get an abortion if birth control fails.
I would say they are post menopausal which would mean that there would be no babies but I somehow doubt he would consider sleeping with such mature ladies.