Over on the A Voice for Men forums – yes, they have forums – one Man Going His Own Way spells out exactly what he means by His Own Way. Here’s misterbill:
For me, MGTOW has three major components:
1. Refusal to cohabitate with a woman
2. Avoidance of fatherhood like the plague
3. Avoidance of being alone in a room with a strange woman (for fear of false accusations)
These are the core elements, IMO.
I’m not celibate, I get sexual satisfaction from several call-girls that I’ve built good rapport with over a few years. I’ll visit one of these women whenever I feel like it, usually once a month or so.
I have what I would describe as a female companion who others would describe as my girlfriend. We don’t have sex, not because I’m not attracted to her, but because my fear of possibly getting her pregnant petrifies me beyond belief. So we hang out 2 days a week and have very nice times together, going on about 5 years. She understands my beliefs and that we will never live together and that I don’t believe in the myth of love.
So I’m MGHOW, but not without women.
I’m 41 and fairly wealthy. In my 20s and through to of my early 30s ( although I wasn’t a PUA) I studied game theory and in combination with other aspects of my life, I had no trouble getting laid. Then a woman made a false accusation against me (and was further slandered by another), and I began to wake up to the perils of having sex with (and interacting with) strange women. The risks outweighed the benefits, and I turned to going my own way.
I travel on business frequently and the one exception to my rule with being alone with strange women is the easy pickings while traveling. There is a rule amongst many women that if you’re 500 miles away from home, it’s not cheating. I see this a lot with many married women. Gents, her vows mean NOTHING once she gets on a plane without you. Although I wouldn’t allow any of these women into my home, I accept the risk when I’m traveling. And there is always a risk of running into a psycho who is ready to explode.
I don’t really have any jokes here. But I will note that his story doesn’t make a lick of sense; I find it literally unbelievable.
He’s so paranoid about women because of a “false accusation” leveled against him back when he pursued women using “game theory” that he literally refuses to be in the same room with “strange women” – or even interact with them. Yet when he’s traveling he suggests he routinely has sex with “strange” married women. Huh? These women could still get pregnant; these women could still make accusations, false or otherwise, against him. Does he feel safe because he can skip town in a hurry to avoid the possible consequences of his actions?
He’s (allegedly) been involved in a 2-day-a-week relationship, for five years, with a woman he’s sexually attracted to. But he refuses to have sex with her because he’s terrified of getting her pregnant. If he’s that worried about getting her pregnant, and generally wants to “avoid … fatherhood like the plague,” why doesn’t he get a vasectomy? If, after he sleeps with a married woman in a strange city, she gets pregnant with his child, does he simply assume she’ll never be able to track him down?
I’m going to assume that most if not all of what misterbill is saying here is bullshit. But if he does indeed live his life in way that even vaguely resembles how he says he does, it’s a rather sad and strange and paranoid way to live.
You guys get that he is making most of what he says up, so let me ask: a guy who spins long winded misogynistic tale tales to a bunch of other sexless losers online is likely _____
a. damaged
b. lonely
c. delusional
d. all of the above
If you want to mock guys like Roissy, that’s one thing. But picking on isolated social retards is just pathetic. You aren’t better than this freak, you’re worse. At least he doesn’t know any better.
That… was strange.
I even reread it aftervaping some Sour Diesel and…
Still incoherent…
I mean… I understand the words he’s using, but I’m lost as to the meaning.
Is it what they call a “word salad”?
The thing that really struck me was the combination of “I’m never alone with a woman” and “I have sex with prostitutes on a regular basis”. So… He always has a witness watching when he bangs a call girl?
Don’t be silly, it’s not possible to rape a prostitute /s
OH WORD, Otis, tell us more about how cruel we are.
@chibigodzilla – I looked up the Monty Hall problem (never heard of it before) and my reaction was …
… but what if I’d rather keep the goat? 😉
It’s very unkind of you to call this poor honest MGTOW a liar, Otis. Why can’t you be more supportive of other men?
@Dvärghundspossen
Maybe he only has sex with male prostitutes? That’s the only way that statement makes any sense. Although I am a little confused as to why he’s referring to them as call girls.
@Cassandrasays: Maybe they’re transvestites, and he refer to transvestites as girls? But since they’re still men, they don’t make up false rape accusations like women do.
Or maybe the “call girls” are real dolls? Maybe it’s some kind of agency renting out real dolls he’s going to?
I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and not assume that he’s saying that female sex workers aren’t actually women, but he’s not exactly making it easy for me.
Off topic, but I thought it would give people a bit of a laugh…
The University of Texas have been putting their ev-psych hats on to tell the world that teh wimminz votes are all controlled by their hormonal ladyparts.
So we have,
1) Religiosity changes depending on the state of one’s uterus
2) Only women have those pesky hormones
3) All single women want abortions and love the gays*
4) All married women want baybeez*
5) Your hormones change jobs as soon as you get married
6) BEEETAAAZZ!
I mean this is just straight up bullshit. “Well we’ve developed this theory that only works on a woman who is cisgendered, pre-menopausal, isn’t using hormonal contraceptives or medication and has regular periods, so that’s probably basically all women, and ignoring the fact that even among these women they will have different menstrual cycles, IF OBAMA IS ELECTED IT’S BECAUSE SLUTS”.
The article I linked to does a good job of debunking it, pointing out that men have hormones too, the difference in married v single preferences can be explained by economic differences, not ‘wandering uterus’ and that women actually have sentient brains and not just hormone collection and sorting stations in their heads, but I’m still at a loss as to why they saw fit to cover it in the first place.
(*ABORTIONS FOR SOME! MINIATURE AMERICAN FLAGS FOR OTHERS!)
I’m pretty sure playing “prisoner’s dilemma” is not a useful dating strategy.
Although IIRC, in A Beautiful Mind, when Rusty Crowbar first comes up with game theory, he applies it to his and his friends’ efforts to pick up women.
a guy who spins long winded misogynistic tale tales to a bunch of other sexless losers online is likely _____
That’s a tough one, Otis. Here’s another: ‘A racist who regularly goes on forums full of people who hate him to tell them how many pull-ups he can do is likely _____’.
I suspect the answers to both questions are the same, so why don’t you tell us?
ZING 😀
One might almost suspect that there’s a reason Otis is so sensitive about mockery of this specific kind of misogynist.
The sad part about this whole MGTOW stuff with these guys is they are in a way a waste of good men. If these MGTOW douchebags wold just would just stop wallowing in their own self pity, and self seeking attitudes, they could probably be a good man to many women.
I mean think about it, here are these MGTOW guys who many have good stable jobs, have money, or are handsome, and masculine, traits that may attract a mate.No wonder you hear women complain there are few good men available to date/marry.
Yet, their piss poor misogynistic attitudes toward women keep them alone, unhappy, wallowing in a dark room how they don’t need a woman in their life to make them happy.They just don’t get it
. I guess these moronic guys have had bad experiences in their childhood or beyond with women. So their game plan is just because a few women have hurt me, all women are like that. Obviously the MGTOW Misterbill in the article, desires feminine companionship -after all he sees escorts and even has a female friend he meets with a couple of times a week.
I wonder if she knows if Misterbill’s MGTOW attitudes.Well if MGTOW guys like Misterbill can change their attitudes toward women and not lump all women as bad because a few bad experiences, maybe these guys can actually forgo the escorts and and have a real relationship with a women.
@thenatfantastic
when I clicked the link
Well…who would have ever thought that a “study” that tells women they vote based on their craaaaazy uterus-y emotions would be….I dunno…complete bullshit?
We vote liberally because we feel sexy? really? I can’t believe this idiot was accepted into university. I have always been liberal since I remember because I despise the idea that my role is to belong barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. I have also always had a very limited sex life and can count the times I felt sexy on one hand. My political views never changed when I did.
Funny how we rarely see studies suggesting men do things based on their hormones, or question their rights because of it. No, everything they do is rational, objective and logical.
I agree with Otis here. Misterbill may have all sorts of issues, which is very sad. Mocking him for it does do anything positive, it will just make people like that more angry, isolated and damaged.
We have no real information about whether or not Misterbill has ever raped or sexually assaulted anyone, or even been accused of that; I’d say we should give him the benefit of the doubt by default. But suppose he has raped someone? Even then, what is mocking him going to achieve, except for making him and others like him even more angry, isolated, and damaged.
“One might almost suspect that there’s a reason Otis is so sensitive about mockery of this specific kind of misogynist.”
Otis may have been unsuccessfully at dating, at forming relationships, and may even be a virgin… we’re speculating, but perhaps that is the case. So what? You want to take the piss out of him too?
Regardless of whether Otis himself is in that situation there are plenty of guys who are, and some of them are reading this thread. Is that funny? What are they taking from this discussion. Haha you stupid losers, you may face your entire lives alone with porn and masturbation instead of sexual companionship. Why not just piss off and become rapists, no one cares about you and your situation anyway?
Here’s an idea… how about trying to be positive, and constructive, and helping people.
@Quackers Yeah, I just came to leave a comment saying it had been removed. Whod’a thunk it?
Well… Trying to see the empirical core here, in that long quote made by the Natfantastic, and it seems to be the following:
1. Overall, single women lean more towards Obama and married women lean more towards Romney. Could easily be explained by assuming that conservative women marry younger, and thus there’s a higher proportion of conservatives in the married population and a higher proportion of liberals in the single population.
2. Women’s political (and other?) opinions become stronger when they ovulate – liberal-leaning women become more liberal etc. Well, for all I know, this could be true and have a biological explanation. Maybe all women tend to become a little more energetic during ovulation, for hormonal reasons, and defend their views harder, and tend to go a little bit further in their political (and other) judgements than usual. I have no idea if this is the case, but it doesn’t sound completely far out. Although this isn’t the evopsych they wanted to prove.
So is there a difference between just accepting that you’re probably never going to have sex thanks to social anxiety reasons and stuff like that; and deciding to be happy with celibacy regardless and “going your own way”, because I really don’t want to be grouped in with these guys.
aworld: Well, considering “going your own way” for these guys generally means “having nothing to do with women at all because they’re evil and/or icky and want to eat your brains”, I think we’re pretty safely in an entirely different category to them.
Actually it often seems to mean “have nothing to do with women except when you’re using them like Real Dolls, which it’s only safe to do when you know that if they accuse you of anything nobody will believe them”.
I doubt they get their secretaries to write their online comments…
(My experience with the wealthy is that the correlation of success in business with intelligence or eloquence is non-existent.)
Celibacy doesn’t seem to be a requirement, is what I’m saying. What they’re fixated on is making sure that a woman has no influence on their lives or power over them, so sex with sex workers is fine, and sex with women who they’re sure have no ability to retaliate if they do anything wrong is fine.