So the other day, whilst poking around on Reddit, I took a look at one of its more charming subreddits: r/whiterights – a subreddit full of racists who spend a good deal of their time (as dedicated racists do these days) to pretending that they’re not really racists, just good-hearted folks really really concerned about the plight of white people facing “minority oppression.”
Amidst an assortment of posts complaining about evil brown immigrants, “Jewish Power,” and the internal politics of neo-Nazi organizations, I noticed a posting from our old friend JeremiahGuy — the latest Reddit handle of the dude once known as Things Are Bad, an MRA so obnoxious he’s been banned from r/mensights and A Voice for Men.
Jeremiah links to a post on MGTOWforums –- another familiar name! — lamenting the fact that a black “fattie” has just been chosen as Homecoming Queen at the University of Mississippi – that is, the famously racist, formerly segregated school known as Ole Miss.
The discussion over at MGTOWforums lives up (lives down?) to that site’s usual abysmal standards, with the regulars bashing not only the new Homecoming Queen, but also the first runner-up, a (white) woman whom the regulars have decided is “haggard.” As one commenter puts it:
Either the school is housed in radioactive isotopes causing deformation and them being the “Two best” beaties..Or they have that whole “Oh don’t worry you ARE beautiful!!” crowd surrounding them.
Honestly though since she is the “FIRST” African American winner shes probably a token winner like obama.
Either you vote for her or you are a racist kind of thing.. Or as I said before the thing I call “Oh don’t worry you are pretty!” White lie which is also part pity.
Jesus though. Either choice!! I had seen prettier faces on roadkill.
There’s a lot more where that came from in the MGTOWforums thread.
But I actually found myself more intrigued by the discussion over on r/whiterights, where some of the commenters expressed dismay that the folks on r/whiterights were being so obviously racist. No, really. To wit:
Elsewhere in the thread, another commenter expresses a similar concern:
These comments are some of the Reddit-est comments I’ve read in a long time.
I think there are two possibilities here. Either Paxmagister and Schuuugg are
1) Standard issue racist “white nationalists” worried that too-obvious racism will hurt their movement, or
2) Two people so entitled and narcissistic that they honestly believe that white people like themselves really do face oppression at the hands of minorities, yet who also honestly believe that they themselves aren’t racist, and have somehow failed to notice up until this point that they’re posting in a subreddit run by and full of neo-Nazis.
I think it’s door number two.
The parallel with “Men’s Rights” is fairly obvious here. The Men’s Rights subreddit is overflowing with guys who honestly don’t see themselves as misogynists — but who also regularly write and upvote stuff like the following, from a thread on “Why feminists shouldn’t complain about PUA: They created them [sic] by destroying the previous dating model.”
This is just one example of the casual misogyny that flourishes there, and not even a particularly egregious one. Obviously, as regular readers here know all too well, there are plenty more examples where that came from.
It’s kind of amazing how easy it is for bigots to convince themselves that they’re not bigots.
You know what’s funny about the “dating model” complaint? The modern concept of dating didn’t solidify until the 1950s, with the increased independence of teenagers via the automobile and accelerated post-war urbanization/suburbaniztion. So it was only about 40 years old before the beginnings of radical third wave feminism (which is, I presume, most MRAs’ primary image of contemporary feminism). The “previous dating model” is about as old as the baby boomers. Hardly an august institution.
Isn’t r/whiterights mostly just about fishing, cooking, badminton and stamps?
@James
It’s very important to remember that for (particularly American) conservatives: “how things always were before liberals/feminists/whatever ruined everything” = “an exaggerated version of how things were for suburban whites in the 1950’s, possibly as cribbed from Leave it to Beaver”
In another thread Schuuug identifies as a woman, 33 years old, and spends lots of time on those fashion-advice type threads and other friendly and mundane things. Is there a way to list how often someone comments in a particular subreddit? She might just be a newcomer, which would explain the cluelessness.
nerdypants, huh. I fixed the gender reference in the post.
I’m sure she is a newcomer, but you would think that even the name of the subreddit would clue her in to the racism to be found within it.
I’m sure these idiots are serious when they wonder why there’s no White History Month.
I’m curious to know exactly what problems they think white people as a group are facing. I mean besides loss of privilege and scary brown people breeding.
Quoted For Truth.
This is why it’s s funny when MRAs come here and start talking shit about the good old days. They come up against a wall of historians, anthropologists, sociologists, etc. who know a thing or two. It amuses me terribly.
Heh, yeah, you’d think. Though if one is particularly clueless, I suppose “white rights” could suggest something good, like “Hey, I like rights! I like white people! I must like white rights!” I’ve met some people who did something similar regarding immigrants in Australia. I never did figure out if they were just very bad at understanding context, or very good at being disingenuous.
In Schuuug’s defence, her comments in other threads suggest she’s a generally sincere person, and it seems hanging out on r/whiterights is already helping her understand the context. Yay internet.
Wait a minute, did they all forget that homecoming queen is not a beauty contest, but a popularity contest?
Oh right, since a woman’s only feature of note is her beauty, they are pretty much the same thing.
James – the dating model has changed back and forth. Going out with lots of people was the model that emerged in the 1920s, and the ‘going steady’ model of the 1950s was seen as weak and wimpy and not trying by the parents of those teens – the ones who’d been doing the dating in the 1920s. My source for this: History Today magazine, but don’t ask me which issue, I read it in the 1990s; it stuck in the memory because it was so unlike the image I’d had.
I don’t seem to recall that the whole Sexual Liberation thing was exactly rejected by men in the 1960s – on the contrary, as far as I have read it was far more for their benefit than for women’s, and the PUAs seem to be the dregs from that particular barrel.
kitteh There are a whole lot of minefields for the unwary in this dating – going steady – social conventions field. My mum told me about my father making a huge faux pas one evening. They’d gone out to one of those cabaret style things with a group from work – and it became significant that the olds (mid-thirties at the time) were a decade or so older than the rest of the group. Dad did the ‘gentlemanly’ thing. As each dance was announced, he’d ask one of the other women at their table for that dance. And was making sure that he would have danced with every one of them by the end of the evening.
Mum noticed that there were a few ‘looks’ and mutters exchanged between others at the table. So she eventually told him that she thought these ‘young’ people were not used to the idea of anyone dancing with partners other than the one they’d come with. Poor man! One of the great loves of his life was ballroom dancing. He thought these people were peculiar – like one of his friends who, everyone knew, was very possessive and always made sure he and his wife were the first ones on the floor for every dance, just so that no-one ever got the chance to ask her. That was regarded as very borderline social behaviour.
Dancing with everyone in a social group was the way ‘things were done’. As anyone watching a ‘sophisticated’ film from the forties and fifties should have worked out!
My grandmother, born 1905, used to lament the way kids in the 50s and 60s tended to pair off and go off alone. She would tell me about the group dating activities they had when she was a girl. People weren’t expected to pair off so fast then.
mildlymagnificent – your poor dad! That’s a very good illustration of the sort of changed attitudes, isn’t it?
It also illustrates the point about how silly the whole conservative notion is, of everything being exactly the same for all of history (ie. anywhere civilised was essentially a Norman Rockwell scene in fancy dress) until it All Went Wrong in the 1960s.
What, so young people don’t socialise in mixed groups any more?
“I don’t think white pride means being a racist.”
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/104357/2038397-loki_facepalm.jpg
Switch “racists” to “sexists” and this is also a good description of /mensrights. 😉
The minute you see “I’m not an X, but” you know that what’s about to follow is going to prove that the person actually is an X.
Oh yeah, met a lot of racist-butts.
“Racist-butts”, I like it!
I don’t know which is worse, the “I’m not, but” or the out-and-out racists or sexists. My sister and BiL are out-and-proud racists. 🙁
I’ll admit that stormfront is a guilty pleasure of mine.
I honestly believe a few of the posters there are legit trolls that can’t get called out because the normal stuff in there is so crazy. Between the hocus-pocus science, racial theory, pro-eugenics, obsession with Jews, etc it has to be the single most unintentionally funny place on the internet.
As to dating, I’ll say I prefer the matchmaking model. Been engaged twice that way.
So basically, what is meant by “white” here? Because for me, being a human being worthy of respect is not a shade of skin. And, hey, intersectionality! Privilege vectors overlap and change based on where you are and how others perceive you. Sure, in default society, appearing white, het, cis male confers a high level of privilege, but there is no freaking red carpet that gets rolled out for Showing Up White. I think that is the fundamental misunderstanding of generally non racist douchebags when they first become aware of privilege. They think of privilege as some kind of gift instead of a lack of discrimination and Stuff One Must Think Of while in basic everyday life. So they become indignant and upset thinking that they are perceived as being that bratty kid who gets everything on a silvver platter. But really, I think they are just missing the entire point….which is where many of them cross the line from clueless entitlement to outright hate speech.
Upon reading all of the comments, I have realized that I have nothing that I can add to the conversation except maybe in response to historians, anthropologists, and sociologists, being that I’m possibly switching to a double major in journalism/anthropology and creative writing. I want to write Sci-Fi on the side of something that actually gets me a job.
“Racist-butt”. I can say that this doesn’t make you look good to those who are on the fence.
I don’t have anything to add, either, except some kittens.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-exxF0GLW-V8/T5ce8J2PPUI/AAAAAAAAAoI/OpJ3FOpqCJM/s1600/cute%2Bcat%2Bhugging%2Btwo%2Bkittens%2Bkitty%2Bmom%2Bbabies%2Blove%2Bfriends%2Btwins%2Blolcat%2Baww.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UW9Cb.jpg