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Spearheader: The real victims of predatory female teachers are the guys “hot teachers” AREN’T having sex with

Van Halen videos are not reality.

Men’s Rights activists are constantly posting links to stories of women committing horrible crimes – what some have taken to calling “women behaving badly” (WBB) stories – and almost reveling in the fact that, yes, some women do indeed do horrible shit.

MRAs are particularly obsessed with stories of female high school teachers preying on their underage students. While this partly reflects the general MRA obsession with badly behaving women, MRAs do actually make a legitimate point here: while most people understand that female victims of predatory male teachers are indeed victims, quite a few people regard male victims of attractive female teachers as “lucky” boys who get to live out the schoolboy fantasy of having sex with a “hot teacher.”

So when I saw that The Spearhead was featuring  a guest post titled “The Hot Teacher Myth, and How it Hurts Men,” I expected to see some version of this argument being made. What I found was one of the strangest and creepiest things I’ve ever read: Walt Forest seems to think that the real problem is that so few guys get the opportunity to have sex with “hot teachers.”

Forest points out (correctly) that cases or female teachers sexually abusing their male students are actually fairly rare. He goes on to argue that all the attention paid to predatory “hot teachers” in the media promotes the “myth” that male and female sexuality is fundamentally the same. This, he suggests, is bad for men:

How does this myth hurt men?

Set aside for a moment the image of the hot teacher and her underage male victim which the media force on us with such insistence. Instead imagine a far more common scenario: a young man (or for that matter, a not-so-young man) who does NOT have sex with his teacher, but desperately wants to.

I’m not quite sure in what world lots of young and not-so-young men – not teenage boys — are being taught by “hot” high school teachers. Perhaps the “hot teachers” here are actually “hot” college professors or grad students and the men in question are college students? Or is Forest simply trying to avoid the question of sexual abuse by pretending that underage boys are “men?”

Forest continues to explore the plight of this poor fellow:

In fact this man would like to have sex with many of the women around him, but — with very few exceptions — he cannot.

Well, yeah. There are 3.5 billion girls and women on planet earth; even the most advanced Lothario is only going to be having sex with a very small fraction of a percentage of them.

But alas, the media tortures this hapless undersexed fellow by suggesting that women like sex as much as men, even though the overwhelming majority of women won’t actually have sex with him personally.

[O]ur media and increasingly ordinary people assure this man that women he hardly knows (even his teachers) will suddenly lead him by the hand to their beds for no other reason than the pleasure of having sex with him, “no strings attached.” This kind of thing is ordinary, we tell him. It “happens all the time.”

Well, in porn it does. Most people are aware that porn isn’t reality.

When it does not happen—of course it never does—he is left to think that he must be something less than an ordinary man. If he dares to voice his disappointment, we tell him that he places excessive importance on sex, views women as “objects,” and the rest of the standard pop feminist rhetoric designed to put the blame back on the man himself. We blame the man because we MUST if we are to avoid blaming ourselves for all the lies we are telling him.

I’m pretty sure that most men – or even most teenage boys — don’t spend their days wondering why their lives aren’t exactly like Penthouse Letters.

These lies hurt men. It is difficult for anyone who has not suffered this hurt first hand to understand just how bad it can be, but from my own experience I believe these lies are helping to create the ongoing male suicide epidemic (which our society, tellingly, also refuses to acknowledge).

Men kill themselves because “hot teachers” don’t seduce them on a regular basis? Really?

These lies certainly make countless men miserable. For this reason I believe exposing the myth that male and female sexualities are the same should be the men’s movement’s first priority. Hot teacher stories obviously make up only a tiny part of this myth, but because they are such a blatant distortion of reality, they are a good place to start.

Quite a few of The Spearhead’s regulars were put off by the, well, weirdness of Forest’s post. But others chimed in to agree. Indeed, Arpagus actually took Forest’s strange argument a step further, earning himself some actual Spearhead downvotes in the process:

[T]he female sex offender charade has been the most frustrating aspect of feminism for me personally, not least because I have experienced a great deal of sexual frustration in the past, and nothing can be more offensive to celibate men than pretending there is an epidemic of female rapists. …

It is a most distinctive sign of cultural decline that we have forgotten that pussy is good. This ancient wisdom has been brainwashed out of our culture by feminism. Now pussy is rape and abuse just like male sexuality is. Traditional society might have punished an adulteress for a student-teacher type of relationship, but they certainly did not indulge in any charade about the boy being a “victim,” because they knew he got lucky if you consider the sex itself. There are reasons why a society might want to proscribe those kinds of relationships, but the boy being a “victim” of “abuse” is most assuredly not one of them.

MRA elder “Zed” gently corrected Arpagus in a comment that was nearly as strange, suggesting that predatory “hot teachers”

are not being punished for “harming the boys”, that is just a convenient excuse. What they are actually being punished for is giving away free pussy.

If you take a close look at the outrage among men these days for having to pay full price for used pussy, their anger is divided between the guys who got it at a price far lower than they paid for it, and the women who gave it away to another man for less than they charged him for it.

It would be like a rich man buying an entire wine cellar of Dom Pérignon at the going price of $200+/bottle – savoring what indulgence his wealth could buy him – only to find his kitchen wench had been pouring free flutes for the pool boy.

Or, like it a member of the Medellín Cartel discovering that their US connection to whom they shipped 2 metric tons of high quality cocaine, was laying out lines for her friends.

She is not being punished for “harming the boys” (HA!) but for black marketing the product that the pussy cartel owns.

The women are being punished FOR allowing the boys to get lucky, and get some without having to lay out 3 months salary for an engagement ring and $35,000 on a Bridezilla party for cupcake.

Now that’s the kind of comment that gets upvotes on The Spearhead, and makes Zed a revered figure in the Men’s Rights movement.

EDITED TO ADD: Not sure how I missed this, but Arpagus is apparently the truly creepy Norwegian blogger Eivind Berge, whom we’ve met before.

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chibigodzilla
8 years ago

@Ian. Having worked as a research assistant, I know that the University of Colorado frowns upon romantic relationships between students & teachers as part of their (fairly standard) sexual harassment policy (at least, this was the policy in 2006, I can’t imagine it’s changed much). The relationships aren’t completely banned, but they are subject to approval/scrutiny.

Again, it’s a power dynamic thing. For example: an English Major dating a Electrical Engineering professor is not as big of a concern because the two fields don’t have much overlap.

drst
drst
8 years ago

@Ian – Google it?

Everywhere I’ve worked has had this policy. And no, I ain’t telling you the schools where I’ve worked. I don’t have a death wish.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Nice limited worldview there, Ian. Did you actually grasp the idea of duty of care at all? Or the idea of the power imbalance between teachers/lecturers and students?

Since you’re thinking only a religious institution would have such policies, let me shock you by giving an example from the University of Melbourne’s policy handbook, Drawing the Line

Yeah, that’s Melbourne, Australia. And it’s a secular university.

University Policy
The University has policies and procedures to address situations such as those outlined above. The Responsibilities of University Staff Policy and Staff/Student Relationships Policy prohibit behaviour on the part of staff that may compromise their position of trust
with students. The University requires staff to avoid conflicts between a personal relationship and professional responsibilities.

In some circumstances, an initial sexual approach to a student, or engaging in a sexual relationship with a student, may constitute sexual harassment and can be the subject of a complaint under the University’s Discrimination, Sexual Harassment and Bullying Policy.
Staffs have a professional and ethical responsibility to protect the interests of students. It is also important that students respect the professional nature of the relationship with staff and accept the constraints and obligations in that relationship Such relationships may undermine the real or perceived integrity of the supervision, evaluation provided and the trust in the student/staff relationship. In addition, as a result of an unequal power balance, one person may feel pressured to be involved in a sexual relationship. Such relationships may have an actual or perceived negative effect on others in the academic or work
environment.

Ian
Ian
8 years ago

I know that the University of Colorado frowns upon romantic relationships

Frowning upon something is like shaming someone and means nothing. College students are legal adults and are contracting for a service and the school has no legal jurisdiction over them.The top Universities have to compete for the top professors and don’t dictate rules to them.
And if 18+ students are too mentally immature then why do we permit them to vote, sign contracts, take loans, get married etc., all things that are a lot more important than some sex which is trivial.

“The relationships aren’t completely banned, but they are subject to approval/scrutiny”

So there’s some commisar who determines what is correct? Think about what you are writing.

pecunium
8 years ago

Ian: Do you have the names of any colleges that do this because I want to check it.

All of the following have limits (from outright bans, to requiring that no pedagogic relationship exist between the student and a member of the faculty.

The Los Angeles Community College District.

The Univerisity of California (all of the campuses).

USC

Foothill and DeAnza Colleges (near Palo Alto Calif).

Yale.

Those are the one’s I know of off the top of my head.

The University of Iowa

Columbia University

The Schools of the NY University System.

The University of Washington

The University of Texas

University of Tennessee

Harvard

Princeton

All of them full of reactionary religious types. (/sarcasm)

Ian
Ian
8 years ago

And when I reffered to Universities I meant the real ones and we all know which are which.
You ever notice that in the more upper classes, which are of course the more intelligent and least brainwashed by pc,that it’s common to see men 20-30 years older than their female companions and no one even raises an eyebrow over it.
But down in the blue collar working classes there’s usually that 1-2 year difference in age. If you haven’t noticed it then you don’t get out much or just associate with people like youself at the bottom.

pecunium
8 years ago

Ian: The school is contracting with them. The School has the right to impose limits and obligations. If the school wants to they can ban that sort of relationship: note the direction of obligation is actually on the faculty; because they hold the power.

But the competition to get into a school (esp. one with a good reputation) is strong enough that they could make it an obligation on the students as well, and kick them out.

Because there are always more trying to get in.

pecunium
8 years ago

Ian.. how much time do you spend with the Blue Bloods?

Because “trophy wives” aren’t treated well by the class they have married into.

And a man in those circles who tries to marry a woman of that class who is that much younger than he… is going to find himself ostracised.

Ian
Ian
8 years ago

Those are the one’s I know of off the top of my head.

You’re wrong. Princeton, Harvard and Yale do not have any of these insane policies. Perhaps they should to protect the male professors from the horny female students who pursue them. Personally I think it was a big mistake to permit females into these colleges in the 70’s since they all already had their female colleges. Perhaps we should go back to single sex Universities.And to avoid these sex problems gays can go to the female colleges.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

The top Universities have to compete for the top professors and don’t dictate rules to them.

Are you fucking kidding me? They dictate all sorts of rules to faculty and staff alike.

Nice try at the classism, lackwit.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

Does this count as a meltdown yet or can I still throw in a bet of two more posts?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Since he brought up class, I’m guessing this is Pell.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

On top of that, even if both parties are above age of consent, the teacher/student relationship is a professional relationship, and there is the matter of professional ethics, alongside the issues of law, institutional regulations, and just basically not being an ass.

College students are legal adults and are contracting for a service and the school has no legal jurisdiction over them. The top Universities have to compete for the top professors and don’t dictate rules to them.

Universities have a duty of care to their staff and students, and that duty of care requires rules and guidelines to be enforced. Top professors may get a bit of leeway (though I suspect not as much as top athletes or coaches) but they don’t get a total pass, and nor should they.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Oh yeah, trophy wives get SUCH good press wherever they are. You are kidding, aren’t you? Look outside your own imaginary version of the US and see the sneers directed at couples like the Trumps, the Ecclestones or the Edelstons. You might have to Google the names, though, which sounds like it’s all too much work.

Seems to me Ian’s real gripe is “not being allowed to screw students” – though since he’s hardly teacher material, it wouldn’t apply to him anyway. He’s just circling around to the bog-standard MRA whine of not being allowed to shove his dick into whoever he wants to.

Ian
Ian
8 years ago

I sometimes fill in at Princeton ,where I live ,and none of the rules apply to me so I can’t imagine any full time professor allowing some committee to dictate to him.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Definitely Pell. Hi Pell.

pecunium
8 years ago

Ian:Princeton, Harvard and Yale do not have any of these insane policies.

Three Strikes, You’re out.

HarvardOfficers and other members of the teaching staff should be aware that any romantic involvement with their students makes them liable for formal action against them. Even when both parties have consented at the outset to the development of such a relationship, it is the officer or instructor who, by virtue of his or her special responsibility and educational mission, will be held accountable for unprofessional behavior. Graduate student teaching fellows, tutors, and undergraduate course assistants may be less accustomed than faculty members to thinking of themselves as holding professional responsibilities. They may need to exercise special care in their relationships with students whom they instruct, evaluate, or otherwise supervise, recognizing that their students might view them as more powerful than they may perceive themselves to be.

YalePolicy on Teacher-Student Consensual Relations

The integrity of the teacher-student relationship is the foundation of the University’s educational mission. This relationship vests considerable trust in the teacher, who, in turn, bears authority and accountability as a mentor, educator, and evaluator. The unequal institutional power inherent in this relationship heightens the vulnerability of the student and the potential for coercion. The pedagogical relationship between teacher and student must be protected from influences or activities that can interfere with learning and personal development.

Whenever a teacher is or in the future might reasonably become responsible for teaching, advising, or directly supervising a student, a sexual relationship between them is inappropriate and must be avoided. In addition to creating the potential for coercion, any such relationship jeopardizes the integrity of the educational process by creating a conflict of interest and may impair the learning environment for other students. Finally, such situations may expose the University and the teacher to liability for violation of laws against sexual harassment and sex discrimination.

Therefore, teachers (see below) must avoid sexual relationships with students over whom they have or might reasonably expect to have direct pedagogical or supervisory responsibilities, regardless of whether the relationship is consensual.

Princeton: Consensual Relations with Students

Among the grounds stated in paragraph IV.N.1 above for disciplinary action is “conduct which is shown . . . substantially to impair the individual’s performance of the full range of his or her responsibilities as a member of the Faculty.” Whenever a faculty member has a professional responsibility for a student or could reasonably expect to have professional responsibility for the student during the student’s time at Princeton, a consensual sexual or romantic relationship between the faculty member and the student raises a serious question of violation of this provision. A faculty member has a professional responsibility for a student when he or she has direct or indirect administrative, teaching or supervisory responsibility for that student.

When a sexual or romantic relationship involves individuals in a teacher-student relationship (e.g. being directly or indirectly taught, supervised or evaluated) or involves any element of coercion, harassment, bargaining for educational favors, or the like, it is a clear and most serious violation of both University and professional standards, as well as a potential violation of state and federal anti-discrimination statutes. Any sexual or romantic relationship between teacher and student is bound to impinge upon the teacher-student relationship, not only with regard to the student involved but also in relationship to his or her peers, who may perceive favoritism or unequal treatment by the faculty member. Consensual relationships with students can also create immediate problems of conflict of interest (addressed by the University’s policy on nepotism, Section V.B.) and of sexual harassment (Section V.D.) which may also expose the faculty member to charges of misconduct and to disciplinary action.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

I thin Ian’s point of reference are TV and movies. Casting directors love to pair older men with younger women, it makes certain people feel validated/superior/not afraid of getting older. Maybe that’s why you’re under the impression that all college girls chase after their male profs…and that a Ben Kingsley/Penelope Cruz matchup makes perfect sense.

pecunium
8 years ago

That was too easy. I don’t suppose we can get Vegas to make a book on the stupid from the misogynists who come to MB?

And this is starting to smell like Pell.

Gametime
8 years ago

Perhaps we should go back to single sex Universities.And to avoid these sex problems gays can go to the female colleges.

Hahahahahha, this is amazing reasoning. “Well, if colleges are single sex, we’ll still have to do something about TEH GAYS. I know! We’ll send them to women’s colleges, to… prevent them from having sex with straight men, I guess!”

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

Definitely Pell. I don’t know anyone else who could claim to be an academic at Princeton in a post with such fucked up punctuation.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Cloudiah, it does sound like Pellyboy, doesn’t it? “I’m a top professional in my field of education/medicine/law/all the other stuff I pulled out of my arse!”

Magpie
Magpie
8 years ago

Waiting for the day Pell claims to do maintenance at milk bottling plants…

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

Maybe he got his ideas on how universities work from Indiana Jones movies?

“It’s the beginning of the semester and I just taught one lecture. Now I think I’ll head off overseas for a few months without giving any notice to my students or the administration.”

“‘Kay. Send a postcard.”

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Does this mean Indiana Jones is secretly a woman? Cos surely only TEH WIMMINZ would get to do that, cos misandry.

cloudiah
8 years ago

The no quoting, bad punctuation, pretending to be something high status, all dead giveaways for Pell. How’s Monty?

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Does this mean the Pell Biography/CV is going to need updating?

pecunium
8 years ago

The real giveaway for Pell is the “sudden reveal”.

It’s not just that Ian says “schools don’t do that”, he insists he’s right because “I work at Princeton and am affected by no such rule”.

What’s interesting, to me, is that at Foothill/DeAnza it’s any staff member. So the janitors, and the catering staff, aren’t allowed to date students.

Which has caused problems when one them has a spouse/partner who decides to go to school, not so much because it can’t be worked out, but because they forget to inform the school when the partner enrolls.

whataboutthemoonz
8 years ago

Perhaps we should go back to single sex Universities.And to avoid these sex problems gays can go to the female colleges.

But where do the lesbians go?

Kim
Kim
8 years ago

And to avoid these sex problems gays can go to the female colleges.

He’s just being silly now. The obvious solution is to have a university for every gay guy with a lesbian teaching them. And one for each lesbian with a gay guy teaching them. That way there is no temptation for anyone because it is, of course, impossible for anyone to control their sexual urges around 18-25 yr olds.

Ian
Ian
8 years ago

Penelope Cruz who is past menopause is hardly what I’d consider young and nubile lol

@ Sir Wigglesworth-why do you stupid lower class females always pretend that there is some error in someone’s writing when you know that there isn’t? Do you actually believe that everyone is as dumb as you? Is this your asinine way of trying to win an argument when you have no response? Oh look look! He left a comma out which means I’m a lot smarter than he. Typical lower class female crap and every man knows it.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

“Penelope Cruz is past menopause” – funny, when did 38 count as “past menopause”?

Troll meltdown countdown commenced, 10 … 9 … 8 …

Ian
Ian
8 years ago

And cut the bullshit with those alleged codes of conduct from Harvard and Yale because you obviously are not smart enough to know what they mean.A Harvard professor would sue the school if they even tried to enforce some rule made up by some prune faced feminist spinster. Ever hear of any cases where a male professor at Harvard lost his job over screwing some 18yo student? There are none and besides none of you females on here would ever get within a 100 miles of Harvard except as a charwoman scrubbing the male urinals.

Ian
Ian
8 years ago

Penelope Cruz is past menopause” – funny, when did 38 count as “past menopause”?

OK I was off by 2 years. Average age of menopause is 40.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Wrong. Perimenopause typically begins in the mid to late 40s. It can begin in the early 40s but that’s not the average at all.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

… 3 … 2 … 1 …

“none of you females on here would ever get within a 100 miles of Harvard except as a charwoman scrubbing the male urinals.”

Meltdown is reached, we have liftoff! 😀

inurashii
inurashii
8 years ago

Ian, good bid at a derail, especially with all the classist bullshit, but we can tell that you’re purposefully ignoring all of the ways in which your nonsense was driven into the ground.

You bring nothing to the table. Congrats.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

Just out of curiosity, what do you ‘teach’ at Princeton? Not English, obviously. Or contract law, if you think someone can sue over being bound by reasonable terms of employment. Or anything to do with administration, if you think that any committee that draws up the code of conduct for a college’s staff isn’t heavily loaded with professors.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

none of you females on here would ever get within a 100 miles of Harvard except as a charwoman scrubbing the male urinals

Heh. The campus is open to the public you know,

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

30 seconds of research reveals: the current President of Harvard is a woman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Gilpin_Faust

30 seconds of research.

I’m an undergraduate, majoring in English/creative writing.

What’s your field again, Mr. “I fill in at Princeton”?

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

Oh, holy fuck, so is the president of Princeton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_M._Tilghman

She’d be your boss, if you actually worked at the place!

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Sir Bodsworth pwns Pell … 😀

drst
drst
8 years ago

I thin Ian’s point of reference are TV and movies. Casting directors love to pair older men with younger women, it makes certain people feel validated/superior/not afraid of getting older.

It ain’t just tv. That asshole director of “Snow White and the Huntsman” who is MARRIED has an affair with Kristen Stewart, who is about 20 years younger than him and while dating someone not actually married, and who gets booted from the sequel? Her, not him. He breaks his vows and gets busted and he gets to keep his job, she gets eviscerated publicly.

And talk about power dynamics. Jesus wept.

pecunium
8 years ago

Ian… so Harvard has that policy because? How about Yale? What about your institution (i.e. Princeton, in case you forgot)?

It’s written down. It’s a condition of employment. If s/he sued, s/he would lose.

But tell us, “Ian” what do you teach? Are you tenured? Tenure track? Adjunct?

I’ve been an instructor. It was known that any sort of improper relationship (which included, in some cases, simple socialising) would be grounds for summary dismissal.

An improper sexual relationship might have resulted in criminal charges. I am willing to stipulate to professors at Harvard, and Yale, being intelligent enough to not have relationships with students.

If i stipulate that you teach at Princeton, I am not willing to extend my prior stipulation to that institution.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Pell, wow. We always know it’s you. Dude, seek help.

pecunium
8 years ago

drst: The studio made a statement that Stewart wasn’t being dropped from the sequel.

pecunium
8 years ago

Wow… The States of Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire will prevent all of the women on Manboobz from being within 100 miles of Cambridge?

Has anyone told Cliff?

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

C’mon, Pell, keep it up! One more good meltdown should see you with an unbeatable lead for Troll of the Year!

clairedammit
clairedammit
8 years ago

Aww, y’all scared off the Abominable Pell Ness Monster. I didn’t know he was so shy.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Maybe he exploded …