Men’s Rights activists are constantly posting links to stories of women committing horrible crimes – what some have taken to calling “women behaving badly” (WBB) stories – and almost reveling in the fact that, yes, some women do indeed do horrible shit.
MRAs are particularly obsessed with stories of female high school teachers preying on their underage students. While this partly reflects the general MRA obsession with badly behaving women, MRAs do actually make a legitimate point here: while most people understand that female victims of predatory male teachers are indeed victims, quite a few people regard male victims of attractive female teachers as “lucky” boys who get to live out the schoolboy fantasy of having sex with a “hot teacher.”
So when I saw that The Spearhead was featuring a guest post titled “The Hot Teacher Myth, and How it Hurts Men,” I expected to see some version of this argument being made. What I found was one of the strangest and creepiest things I’ve ever read: Walt Forest seems to think that the real problem is that so few guys get the opportunity to have sex with “hot teachers.”
Forest points out (correctly) that cases or female teachers sexually abusing their male students are actually fairly rare. He goes on to argue that all the attention paid to predatory “hot teachers” in the media promotes the “myth” that male and female sexuality is fundamentally the same. This, he suggests, is bad for men:
How does this myth hurt men?
Set aside for a moment the image of the hot teacher and her underage male victim which the media force on us with such insistence. Instead imagine a far more common scenario: a young man (or for that matter, a not-so-young man) who does NOT have sex with his teacher, but desperately wants to.
I’m not quite sure in what world lots of young and not-so-young men – not teenage boys — are being taught by “hot” high school teachers. Perhaps the “hot teachers” here are actually “hot” college professors or grad students and the men in question are college students? Or is Forest simply trying to avoid the question of sexual abuse by pretending that underage boys are “men?”
Forest continues to explore the plight of this poor fellow:
In fact this man would like to have sex with many of the women around him, but — with very few exceptions — he cannot.
Well, yeah. There are 3.5 billion girls and women on planet earth; even the most advanced Lothario is only going to be having sex with a very small fraction of a percentage of them.
But alas, the media tortures this hapless undersexed fellow by suggesting that women like sex as much as men, even though the overwhelming majority of women won’t actually have sex with him personally.
[O]ur media and increasingly ordinary people assure this man that women he hardly knows (even his teachers) will suddenly lead him by the hand to their beds for no other reason than the pleasure of having sex with him, “no strings attached.” This kind of thing is ordinary, we tell him. It “happens all the time.”
Well, in porn it does. Most people are aware that porn isn’t reality.
When it does not happen—of course it never does—he is left to think that he must be something less than an ordinary man. If he dares to voice his disappointment, we tell him that he places excessive importance on sex, views women as “objects,” and the rest of the standard pop feminist rhetoric designed to put the blame back on the man himself. We blame the man because we MUST if we are to avoid blaming ourselves for all the lies we are telling him.
I’m pretty sure that most men – or even most teenage boys — don’t spend their days wondering why their lives aren’t exactly like Penthouse Letters.
These lies hurt men. It is difficult for anyone who has not suffered this hurt first hand to understand just how bad it can be, but from my own experience I believe these lies are helping to create the ongoing male suicide epidemic (which our society, tellingly, also refuses to acknowledge).
Men kill themselves because “hot teachers” don’t seduce them on a regular basis? Really?
These lies certainly make countless men miserable. For this reason I believe exposing the myth that male and female sexualities are the same should be the men’s movement’s first priority. Hot teacher stories obviously make up only a tiny part of this myth, but because they are such a blatant distortion of reality, they are a good place to start.
Quite a few of The Spearhead’s regulars were put off by the, well, weirdness of Forest’s post. But others chimed in to agree. Indeed, Arpagus actually took Forest’s strange argument a step further, earning himself some actual Spearhead downvotes in the process:
[T]he female sex offender charade has been the most frustrating aspect of feminism for me personally, not least because I have experienced a great deal of sexual frustration in the past, and nothing can be more offensive to celibate men than pretending there is an epidemic of female rapists. …
It is a most distinctive sign of cultural decline that we have forgotten that pussy is good. This ancient wisdom has been brainwashed out of our culture by feminism. Now pussy is rape and abuse just like male sexuality is. Traditional society might have punished an adulteress for a student-teacher type of relationship, but they certainly did not indulge in any charade about the boy being a “victim,” because they knew he got lucky if you consider the sex itself. There are reasons why a society might want to proscribe those kinds of relationships, but the boy being a “victim” of “abuse” is most assuredly not one of them.
MRA elder “Zed” gently corrected Arpagus in a comment that was nearly as strange, suggesting that predatory “hot teachers”
are not being punished for “harming the boys”, that is just a convenient excuse. What they are actually being punished for is giving away free pussy.
If you take a close look at the outrage among men these days for having to pay full price for used pussy, their anger is divided between the guys who got it at a price far lower than they paid for it, and the women who gave it away to another man for less than they charged him for it.
It would be like a rich man buying an entire wine cellar of Dom Pérignon at the going price of $200+/bottle – savoring what indulgence his wealth could buy him – only to find his kitchen wench had been pouring free flutes for the pool boy.
Or, like it a member of the Medellín Cartel discovering that their US connection to whom they shipped 2 metric tons of high quality cocaine, was laying out lines for her friends.
She is not being punished for “harming the boys” (HA!) but for black marketing the product that the pussy cartel owns.
The women are being punished FOR allowing the boys to get lucky, and get some without having to lay out 3 months salary for an engagement ring and $35,000 on a Bridezilla party for cupcake.
Now that’s the kind of comment that gets upvotes on The Spearhead, and makes Zed a revered figure in the Men’s Rights movement.
EDITED TO ADD: Not sure how I missed this, but Arpagus is apparently the truly creepy Norwegian blogger Eivind Berge, whom we’ve met before.
So, my take away from all this: “But Dom Perignon isn’t worth that much…”
To keep the ridiculousness straight, I think Zed’s actually claiming that these female TOTALLY-NOT-RAPISTS aren’t being punished by the Feminist Government Overladies for their TOTALLY-NOT-RAPING, but are instead punished by the pussy cartel, run, apparently, by the devious “Boss”, for not getting $35000 engagement rings from their students first.
Also, I’m chortling at the fact that I thought Steele as soon as I read “kitchen wench”, and he comes out of his multithread hiatus to respond here. Coinkidink? I think not!
Yeah, it’s come to a point where I’m just posting irrelevant (but adorable) videos.
I mean, hedgehogs, FUCKING HEDGEHOGS ARE ADORABLE
Seriously? They can’t even distinguish when something is rape…? Some of them at least. I mean, you’d think that they’d hate this sort of situation even more than the general public due to the fact its a woman forcibly manipulating the situation. You know, one of their negative stereotypes? But… apparently self consistency isn’t something to even be paid lip service by them.
Has this shit-head spent any time around adolescent boys ANY time recently? Last job I worked at before my current one was at an after-school program for one of the bigger middle schools in my city and yeah, middle school IS a different beast than high school, but come the fuck on, in the real world, teenage boys are BOYS, not virile, “Oh my how you’ve grown…” Adonises this creepy fuck-wit seems to think they are because…I don’t know he actually thinks teenagers look like they do in the Twilight movies and/or similar fair?
I honestly can’t comprehend why it seems like MRAs have to want to fuck everything out there. I can look back at my high school yearbook and be all “oh, that boy was SO cute” but there’s a big difference between that and wanting to fuck underage people regardless of how they feel about the matter (ie: having a position of power and abusing that position to force someone to sexually submit to you).
I see a puppy and I want to cuddle it. A teenage boy being all shy around the girl he obviously likes? Makes me go “d’awwwww.” But I promise you that there are people in the MRA movement who just think “can I stick my dick in it?” and that just grosses me out to no end.
THERE IS A WAY TO LIKE THINGS WITHOUT WANTING TO FUCK ALL THE THINGS.
Seriously.
Of course, I’m a bit of a hypocrite. I met my husband when he was 15 and I was 17. I did not know he was 15 at the time (because we were taking a junior college class together). I did not know he was still in high school until after we’d become good friends and I had just graduated. I spent a lot of time feeling kind of like the weird creepy older girlfriend because I’d come pick him up after school and stuff, but to be fair, we weren’t really all that far apart in actual age, as far as most married couples go. My husband also looks a lot older for his age (largely due to having long black curly hair, being incredibly tall, having very masculine features in general, and growing facial hair rather easily). He’s been able to get drinks without being carded since he was 17.
I do remember once when he went to a new barber who shaved all his hair off until he had SUPER short hair and he showed up at my work. I didn’t even recognize him. With a cleanshaven face and short hair, he looked like he was still in junior high (albeit a freakishly tall junior high schooler). I had a lot of trouble being intimate with him until he could grow back some facial hair because I just kept looking at him and going “OH GOD, HE LOOKS LIKE A KID.”
I honestly do not understand the sexual obsession that certain people have with super young teens. To me, it seems just kind of gross and rapey. And, in fact, sometimes I think that’s all it is- a desire for power and control over someone who is easily manipulated.
*puke*
Nepenthe’s just jealous of the beautiful birdies of the southern hemisphere. Vaguely related: considering an tattoo outline/sketch of an Australian pelican in flight on my left forearm: y/n?
@Shiraz
Teamed with a moustacheless goatee and slogan t-shirt, perhaps? Maybe a ponytail Penn Jillette style?
I’d agree that if any troll here calls for an elaborate moustache it’s DKM. NWOSlave would have the five-day-beard of the ranting basement survivalist, of course, Antz would have something small and European on his lower lip, Truthy would sport an incredibly unconvincing Groucho-style greasepaint moustache when not playing Sharon, and why are we predicting Sticky’s facial hair when we could be predicting the hair on his head?
@Dualityheart
My ex and I had a similar age gap with me as the older dude, and I realised how weird it had been shortly after starting university. He reads as about 19 and was a year accelerated in school (possibly two?) and I read as being in my mid-20’s so it probably wouldn’t seem as creepy to an outside observer, but still
Here is an artist’s rendering of Meller. Now if only someone could swap out the cane for a small, frightened looking doll.
http://rrrotoku.com/files/2012/09/monopoly-man.jpg
@CassandraSays
I imagine Clark-Gable-meets-Disney’s-Captain-Hook-but-with-Errol-Flynn’s-Hair.
Actually Schticky can have a fluffy white cat to stroke as he monologues. As ridiculous as he is, at least I trust him not to do anything awful to the cat, unlike Meller.
Plot twist: Schticky’s cat is one of the 45 in the David Futrelle suit.
It’s the hand, which is why Schticky is so annoyed that he can’t control what David writes about. It’s his handcat, damn it!
“Pussy cartel”? Whoa. I didn’t realize I was supposed to regulate output and monopolize production! I missed that memo. I also missed the part where “giving away free pussy” wasn’t redundant.
Seriously, wft? My pussy=I can give it away to whomever I choose who choses to receive it (standard local legal conventions apply). Zed seems to have missed that. If he’s concerned about all the pussy devaluation he’s seeing I would suggest he stop treating it like a monopolized commodity and treat said owners of pussy like autonomous human beings. Last time I checked the Great Sisterhood Of Pussy Deniers didn’t exist and pussy denial is conducted on an individual level.
Lowquacks – a pelican tattoo sounds cool, but not on your forearm. Forearm tatts can mean you’re stuck with long sleeves in summer, if you end up in a workplace that doesn’t allow them to show.
@kittehhelp
I often do wear long sleeves in summer, but point taken. I’ve also considered flecks of red on the chest and beak, as per a pelican in her piety, but I’m not Catholic, which that’s come to be associated with, that’s myth’s about Dalmation pelicans, and I’d be afraid people would just think I’ve randomly put some animal cruelty on my arm.
Other idea: “a funny old bird” near it, in the style of figure labels in 19th-early-20th century non-fiction.
Dunno where I’d get it if not forearm, though. Don’t much like my upper arms or chest and I never wear shorts, so legs might be a waste.
So what do youse think of Julia Gillards awesome rant?
(Admittedly, parliament would be more fun if filled with hedgehogs. I can’t argue with Cloudiah’s video)
Well, it’s hard to respect Gillard much, and the bit was essentially “water is wet”, but boy did Abbott need that smackdown.
I saw something nasty in the woodshed
this bloke could be one of our trolls. He’s got the wild-eyed look just right. (“Vile! Vile!”)
I feel like asking Tony “Oooh that Slipper’s such a misogynist” Abbott how he didn’t know what Slipper was like in his Liberal days.
But “Look in the mirror” needed to be said to the Mad Monk a long time ago. He makes me want to puke, honestly – loathesome man. If I ever do throw something at the telly, it’ll be because of him or Romney.
I think “a funny old bird” could get misread given how “bird” is still used of women so much. I’d avoid jokes, they don’t necessarily wear well. And you end up having to explain them, which is a pain! 😛
I’ve a tattoo on my upper arm. I’m not wild about my upper arms either, but it’s a convenient place for a tattoo. I’ve also one, ah, some way below my collarbone, but I don’t wear low-cut tops much, so it isn’t an issue.
When I was 18, I thought relationships with 20 somethings were okay. A bit tricky but okay.
When I turned 23, I was finishing my training as a teacher, and got a substitute job in a high school, working with 18 and 19 year olds. Any then I realised that relationships with this kind of an age/power gap are OH MY HOLY MOTHER OF GOD SWEET JESUS NO.
I’ve gotten through all the age groups now (10-20) and my opinion is pretty much the same.
I just don’t GET IT where this myth is sprouting from, because seriously — my coworkers are equally crept up by the idea of sleeping with their students, and have been the moment they’d been placed in that role, regardless of an age gap that was barely 2-3 years. When you are constantly surrounded by that age group, you really do start to realise the differences that would make a romantic relationship REALLY problematic. Most people don’t spend their early 20s actually SEEING how incredibly dumb 18 year olds are in comparison.
Hell, as a fanfic writer, I’ve also dealt with several teachers who are also writers, and we are all equally uncomfortable with teacher/student kink fics as well.
(And in the end, I got several non-teaching people correct me — and what about now? Many years later, if I ran into my ex students, who are real adults now. Yeah well… real adults they may be, I still remember them as the pimply kids who were trying to cheat on tests and sloppily convince ME that my math is wrong, so… no.)
tl;dr reliving their own fantasies would be these people’s worst punishment.
And so the Aussification begins, every night Asian time. Soon us mob will have all of the Men Boobzers going “mate” and shit like that, yeah?