By now you may have seen the pointed on-air response that Jennifer Livingston, a news anchor for WKTB in La Crosse Wisconsin, gave to a viewer who suggested that someone as fat as she is should not really be on TV, lest young girls get the idea that it’s ok to be fat.
Here’s the video. Some thoughts on it below.
Let’s go back, for a moment, to what the guy said in his email. (You can find a transcript of the whole video here.)
Hi Jennifer,
It’s unusual that I see your morning show, but I did so for a very short time today. I was surprised indeed to witness that your physical condition hasn’t improved for many years. Surely you don’t consider yourself a suitable example for this community’s young people, girls in particular. Obesity is one of the worst choices a person can make and one of the most dangerous habits to maintain. I leave you this note hoping that you’ll reconsider your responsibility as a local public personality to present and promote a healthy lifestyle.
While couched as helpful advice from a concerned citizen, the email basically suggests that Jennifer is, in essence, committing a crime against young girls by being fat in public. While Livingston, as a TV anchor, presumably “assaults” thousands of young girls by appearing on TV fat, the letter writer’s logic would presumably apply to every fat woman who posts pictures of herself online, appears in a play, or even just goes outside where others can see her.
Indeed, one woman I know has gotten similar, er, complaints, from people who’ve attacked her for “celebrating obesity” by posting pictures of herself on her blog looking something other than miserable and ashamed of her body.
In addition to the fact that Livingston’s weight is none of this guy’s fucking business, it should also be noted that the he’s simply incorrect in assuming that a person’s weight has much to do with the healthiness of their lifestyle. There are plenty of skinny people living less than healthy lives, including many in the public eye. (Has he ever heard of eating disorders? Or Keith Richard?) And fatness in itself is not a sign of an unhealthy lifestyle, nor does it generally add to health risks. Indeed, as author and fat blogger Kate Harding has noted:
Weight itself is not a health problem, except in the most extreme cases (i.e., being underweight or so fat you’re immobilized). In fact, fat people live longer than thin people and are more likely to survive cardiac events … obesity research is turning up surprising information all the time — much of which goes ignored by the media … Just because you’ve heard over and over and over that fat! kills! doesn’t mean it’s true. It just means that people in this culture really love saying it.
What you eat makes a difference to your health – not how much, or how many of the calories go directly to your waistline.
Meanwhile even those who actually want to lose a lot of weight don’t have many practical options besides gastric surgery, which carries its own health risks. Diets tend to be a mixture of quackery and false hope. They can be unhealthy and even dangerous – and the overwhelming majority of dieters eventually gain back what they lose. For most people, short of gastric surgery, the only way to lose a lot of weight and keep it off is to remain on a diet forever.
But the issue here isn’t really health. It’s body policing. As Livingston herself noted, fat people know that they’re fat. They don’t need it pointed out to them, even if the person pointing it out convinces themselves that they’re doing it for the fat person’s good. And frankly, most of those pointing it out don’t have good intentions. (It’s no coincidence that the favorite insult of the MRAs and other misogynists who hate this blog is to call me fat; I expect some will use this post an excuse for another round of fat-shaming.)
As Livingston noted in her reply to the letter-writer:
The truth is, I am overweight. You could call me fat and yes, even obese, on a doctor’s chart. But to the person who wrote me that letter, do you think I don’t know that? That your cruel words are pointing out something that I don’t see? You don’t know me. You are not a friend of mine. You are not a part of my family and you have admitted that you don’t watch this show so you know nothing about me but what you see on the outside and I am much more than a number on a scale.
And here is where I want all of us to learn something from this. If you didn’t already know, October is National Anti-Bullying Month, and this is a problem that is growing every day in our schools and on the internet. It is a major issue in the lives of young people today and as the mother of three young girls it scares me to death. Now I am a grown women and luckily for me I have a very thick skin, literally, as that email pointed out, and otherwise. And that man’s words mean nothing to me. But what really angers me is there are children who don’t know better. Who get emails, as critical as the one I received or in many cases even worse, each and every day. The internet has become a weapon. Our schools have become a battleground. And this behaviour is learned. It is passed down from people like the man who wrote me that email.
Since Livingston’s video went viral, the letter writer has come forward to double-down on his fat-shaming, saying in a statement that he hopes “she will finally take advantage of a rare and golden opportunity to influence the health and psychological well-being of Coulee Region by transforming herself for all of her viewers to see over the next year.”
I’m not quite sure why the letter writer thinks it’s Livingston’s job to “transform … herself” to meet his desired specifications. But I doubt there’s any point to arguing that with him unless he can first transform himself into something other than the real-world version of an internet “concern troll.”
After reading all this, I thought I’d take a look at MGTOWforums.com – where the regulars are not exactly shy about expressing their opinions about the appearance of women — to see if the regulars had responded with their customary compassion and respect. By which I mean self-righteousness and fat jokes. I was not disappointed.
Bubbagumpshrimp, while himself fat, decided it was perfectly fair to attack the weight of a fat women who – gasp! – puts herself on TV.
The writer stated the truth without resorting to being mean about it. He didn’t call her fat or anything mean. He just referred to her as what she obviously is…obese. This coming from someone that’s a good sized guy. You can’t go into a career that has you on camera, be her size, and be shocked when people call you on it. You VOLUNTARILY put yourself out there to be judged. If you don’t want to be picked apart on your weight, go be an IT person or something.
The problem in this country is that obese people are viewed as victims of a medical condition. The reality of it is that they are in a self-induced state. They have no one to blame but themselves. Putting someone like that out there to be a whiner when it’s obvious that she partakes in the all you can eat buffet line makes her exactly what the writer said…not a good role model for children.
Stewie displayed his rapier wit:
You shouldn’t be reporting on climate changes when you are so fat you are causing them.
Simple conflict of interest.
I don’t think she should be allowed to talk about earth quakes or talk shit about the gravitational pull of the moon either.
You know, because she’s FAT. (The climate and weather references are there because the MGTOWforum regulars seem to think she’s a weather person.)
DruidV, meanwhile, waxed indignant that a woman who doesn’t appeal to his boner is even allowed on TV:
This kind of shit is exactly why I killed my TV years ago.
Look, bitch, you’re FAT!
Listen, bitch, it’s perfectly a okay for anyone to tell you so publicly or otherwise. You don’t have the right to not be offended.
Let me say it again, bitch, YOU ARE FAT! and also very ugly, so I guess what you really are is FUGLY, bitch!
No, it’s NOT to be celebrated either, you nasty slob! It’s disgusting and pathetic. You should at least be ashamed of yourself, since laying off the buffet and hitting the gym is apparently out of the question, but then you are also female, which means you can’t even shut up about yourself long enough to see what a laughing stock you are. Three strikes and you are out, Bertha.
That said, couldn’t we pony up some $$$ to get this hideous broad (pun intended) replaced by a hot bikini blonde weather slut? It’s bad enough to have to watch our shitty weather play out, but do we really have to look at an indignant fat pig telling us how great and special she and her husband thinks she is at the same time?
Blah!
Blah indeed — because the letter writer’s missive to Livingston was really only a more politely worded, passive-aggressive version of this sort of hateful shit.
That’s a whole other important point, isn’t it – there’s the assumption that everyone wants to live to be seventy, eighty, nineyt or whatever. I sure don’t! I’ll be happy to be out of here before I reach retirement age, and that means within the next fifteen years.
*ninety
bah
I have people who have lived very long lives (like 105, 98, etc) on one side of the family and people who died in their 40’s/50’s on the other side (mostly due to drinking/drug use/long-term poverty/lack of medical coverage). So I could go either way. I’m not even 30 and I already have no thyroid function and bad PCOS, so I’m wondering if I got the “die at 50” genes. Whatever. I’m going to enjoy my life as much as I can for today. No use worrying that cancer or a runaway truck is going to strike me dead tomorrow.
My MIL had one of the earliest gastric-bypass surgeries offered and what it’s done to her is heartbreaking. She has constant food issues and it rules her whole life.
She’s been back for widening of the esophegal opening so she could stop pureeing all her food but she still can’t eat steak or lettuce. She throws up anytime she eats “too much”, must take dietary supplements to not fall into malnutrition and generally can’t eat most of a restaurant meal in a restaurant.
She’s thinner, sure, but she’s paid a horribly high price for social acceptance. She and my FIL have offered to pay for me to have said surgery. I have declined.
I’m at detente status with food, negotiated after many years of always being “big”. When I’m hungry; I eat. When I’m not hungry I don’t eat. I find this makes my life easier by far.
To the “gentlemen” who find me unfuckable due to my weight . . .I didn’t want to fuck you anyways. Moving on now.
A few things:
1. This anchor is awesome. She is a superhero, IMO. She’s one of the best role models ANYONE could have.
2. I actually have issues with body image. Body-shaming most certainly does happen to men. It may be less common, but it does happen to us.
It happened a lot to me. I’m extraordinarily uncomfortable in my own skin because of it. I desperately want to lose weight, but find it very, very hard. Boys would laugh at me for being flabby. I could never count how many times I was called ugly by both boys and girls alike. So now I honestly don’t like the way I look… at all.
3. My issues are my own. I could never explain why, but I need to make some changes to help myself. But that is my decision and mine alone. It applies to no one but me, and I’m working it out, and that’s what matters.
This doesn’t mean the rest of the world should change their bodies, too. All that matters is that people be happy. Health is relative. Skinny =/= healthy, and fat =/= unhealthy (of course, vice-versa is also true).
What makes one person healthy is going to be wildly different from what makes somebody else healthy. It’s all different, and there are so many factors, it’s almost insane. So fuck body-shaming and concern-trolling.
@Nathan: Another guy with periodic body image issues here. I’m almost six feet tall and at 130 lbs I felt fat. I now weigh over 200 lbs and have mostly come to terms with it. I don’t love my body, I don’t always even like it, but the burning hatred for my body, the sense of complete physical inadequacy, the belief that I was doomed to celibacy, those are gone. I’d much rather weigh 200 lbs and be mostly happy with my body than 130 lbs and hate it.
I’m lucky. I don’t have body issues. I could very easily have not been lucky enough to have parents (four of them) who didn’t tell me I was too thin; or tell me that being thin meant I was weak, or unattractive, or some other nonsense.
So the fact that it’s really hard to find clothes, “off the rack” that aren’t way too big in the chest (because my neck/sleeve are presumed to require enough room for a person with two-four more inches of chest than I have) or that pants which don’t bunch at the waist/fall off my ass are what I am stuck with buying (when I can find them) are nuisances, not triggers to body shame, etc..
I’m not bulky. I’m thin, and lightly boned. It’s just me.
But with parents who weren’t accepting, I could be really fucked up.
Reblogged this on Gift of the Vagii and commented:
Absolutely spot on! I think she is a role model to young girls. Society is too focused on appearances. She is teaching young ladies that if you are intelligent and determined you can do anything. A resume should matter. Not how closely you resemble a Hollywood starlet. I call B.S.
Also the posts that were referenced made me so furious. People wonder why there is a feminist movement or why women even bother. Because of people like that who spew their ignorance so easily and propagate sexist slander.
One thing I really loved about her response is that nowhere in it did she play into the letter-writer’s game the way people often do (not that I blame them, but) and say, defensively, ‘I’m trying to lose weight!’ Because that’s not the point, and I love that she acknowledged that.
Incidentally, fugly my ass. She’s beautiful. And more importantly, she’s clearly an awesome person and a caring parent.
I swear to god she isn’t even carrying that much weight…
She looks to me like she has the same kind of build as a family friend of mine, she has broad shoulders and hips and is generally more strongly built than many women. The result of this that when she is carrying a little extra weight she looks much fatter than she actually is.
This lady looks like she may partly appear to be fat simply because of her body shape.
I could be completely wrong but it just goes to show that you cannot judge why someone looks the way they do simply from a picture on a screen.
Why do some people thing that if people just lose weight they will magically be transformed into a supermodel. People come in different shapes and sizes! And *shock horror* sometimes women are just naturally of a bigger build because bone structures and shit!
@Angus-Michael M. Davis
Agree with that. She’s just like “Fuck you, my weight, my body and what I do to it is none of your concern. It is not my job to defend my actions or prove myself to you.”
Ugh, body shaming people really get me down. As a kid I was constantly told I was too small and scrawny and needed to eat more – until first year of uni where I packed on weight and suddenly got told I was too fat. I never tell anyone to lose weight, because I remember how fucking miserable it was. I’m now much lighter, and also much healthier (I ate poorly and did no exercise, now I exercise regularly and that has made most of the difference) but for six months I was constantly hungry. People who say it’s easy to lose weight usually have never lost a significant amount of it.
Hey someguy – I heard there’s this guy called Jonathan Swift who actually thinks Irish people should eat their own children. It’s outrageous – you should get right on it with your journamalism!
Or, to put it in a way that won’t fly a mile over your head, holy fuck you’re stupid.
LOL kiki!
OFF-TOPIC – But someone has written a wonderfully worded rebuttal of the MRM:
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/michael-laxer/2012/10/lies-our-fathers-told-us-mens-rights-movement-and-campus-based-
That’s an excellent article, Happy.
Agreed, Happy: excellent article. And, for once, the one comment (so far) did not make me want to gouge my eyes out.
That’s a really good article, and the comment underneath it is very interesting as well.
I think the fat acceptance movement are probably underestimating the health risks of being fat. Proving causality rather than correlation is ALWAYS extremely tricky in medicine, but there seems to be quite a lot of support for the claim that there are health risks with being fat.
I also think they overstate the importance of genetics for weight, since genetics can’t explain why people have gone so much fatter during the last decade (and no, just changes to the BMI scale can’t explain that whole weight gain either).
That said, I think the FA are totally right about a number of points:
1. It’s probably counterproductive healthwise to actually focus on your weight. You’re probably gonna end up healthier if you simply focus on your exercising, eating and other habits, rather than the scales.
2. It’s really, really, really hard to lose weight, most people just gain it on again, and if there were a miracle diet (the latest claim is of course LCHF) we’d know about it by now. Everyone would use that and get thin, because the vast majority of fat people don’t like to be fat.
3. People who pretend to be concerned about fat people’s health are really just hating on their looks. Evidence: Thin and unhealthy people don’t get shamed for their unhealthy life-styles. Rather, they’re admired for being able to be thin despite being unhealthy (I have personal experience of this. I’m thin and healthy now, but used to be thin and unhealthy.)
4. Telling people that they’re fat don’t make them thinner. It just makes them feel crap.
5. CHARACTER doesn’t determine weight. Now, as I said, many FA:s seem to exaggerate genetics. But it doesn’t have to be either character and genetics. It could be that, for instance, whether you live half a kilometre from or on top of the subway station plays a huge part in the long run (I knew I’ve read a study to the effect that there’s a big correlation between weight and whether people’s apartment is close to good walking paths or not). And your natural appetite is probably very important too. Many thin people eat a pizza or a bag of chips whenever they feel like, and honestly think that because of this they are “magically” thin and can’t possibly gain weight no matter how much they eat. But inbetween, they may also forget to eat for long times simply because they don’t get hungry. They just have naturally low appetites.
@Dvärghundspossen, WRT the oft-mentioned “genetics can’t explain why people have gone so much fatter during the last decade” bit:
You are already aware of the changes to the BMI scale thing, but also consider, (since it’s not actually changes that have happened in the last decade, but i believe the last 30 or 40 years, and the rise in obesity/overweight has actually slowed/stopped in the last decade, if i recall correctly):
1. Rise in use of hormonal birth control, which has been shown to cause weight gain.
2. Rise in dieting, which has been shown to cause weight gain
3. Epigenetics (which i find the most interesting) showing things like that if your parents experienced famine, YOU will be more likely to be fat if you have access to a normal diet.
4. Rise in use of HFCs, especially in cheap and processed foods, which are more likely to be sold to people of lower socio-economic means, (who are also likely to be fatter than richer, more privileged folks.) HFCs have actually been proven to cause more weight gain than the same calorie amounts of normal sugars.
So, yes, genetics and the BMI scale changes don’t explain EVERYTHING…but they don’t have to.
The More You Know *starwipe* 🙂
That was a very good article, in fact you could say that it made me…Happy.
http://www.badum-tish.com/
@Heidhi, you are probably right about all your points. I think the debate often sounds as if weight either depends on genetics or on character, but there are SO many other factors. Like, our genes haven’t changed during the last generations, but it’s ALSO really improbable that our characters somehow degenerated and people nowadays are much less self-disciplined than they were in the old days.
I think it’s probably true about lots of fat people today that if they were transported back to, say, the 1950:s, and got to live out the rest of their lives from that point, they’d become thin, and stay thin. Meals were generally smaller back then, there wasn’t any fast food to speak of, if you went into a café to buy a cup of coffee and a cookie you’d get this one teeny-weeny cookie, that’s what everyone had with their cup of coffee, you’d have to cook everything from scratch at home, and you’d probably be doing LOTS of walking in order to get from point A to point B.
But that doesn’t mean that fat people have a real option of becoming thin WITHOUT a time machine by simply adopting a 1950:s lifestyle. Since in order to have that lifestyle TODAY, you would have to constantly THINK about food and exercise. You’d have to constantly tell yourself to take a walk, mentally push yourself to take a random walk even when you totally don’t feel like it, constantly control your appetite, constantly ask people at cafés or restaurants for something teeny-weeny rather than their normal meals and cupcakes and what-not or else just stop eating way before you were finished and be throwing food in the trash all the time. So you’d have to be pretty damn OBSESSED with that whole weight thing, and you’d probably end up a) having an eating disorder, or b) just giving up because you just wouldn’t be able to take it anymore, and then you’d gain the weight again. And yeah, maybe your health would deteriorate during this 1950:s lifestyle experience from the sheer stress of thinking about food and exercise every waking moment.
@Sticky
I love it when people who comment on the blog title don’t realize that they are the boobz
@Pecunium
This is a great typo IMO
@Shiraz
The “health as virtue” thing is really interesting. People drive themselves pretty crazy trying to figure out what they can and can’t eat, and the rules seem to change every week (the media reporting on every new study as though it were widely accepted science certainly doesn’t help). I’ve even heard rumblings of recognizing “orthorexia” (“right-eating”) as an eating disorder.
Gametime, just because popular discourse isn’t honest doesn’t mean that we ought give “our side” a pass on gross exaggeration and manipulation of data.
dualityheart, if you think that medical doctors use empirical evidence before prescribing a treatment, I’d say you don’t know very much about medicine as practiced. It’s a lot of folkways, a lot of tradition, a lot of resistance to change, a lot of just so stories. Medical research is corrupt enough, but, whooo boy, what you don’t know that your doctor is getting paid to do to you. Etc.
General: No, fat shaming is both ineffective and cruel, all 275 pounds of me knows that. But I also know that the cherry picking of data in the “obesity is totally healthy” crowd is pretty similar to the “smoking doesn’t cause cancer” crowd. (Lung cancer does occur in non-smokers, other carcinogens can cause lung cancer, and most smokers never get lung cancer. Blah, blah.)
HAES is great; it’s a super idea and definitely should be promoted. But that doesn’t change that becoming obese is a pretty damn bad thing that should, if at all possible, be avoided. It also doesn’t change the evidence that behavior, not genetics or re-classification, is driving the increase in the number of obese people, especially super-obese people like myself. Preventing obesity in children is not idle shaming, it’s sound public health policy.
But on topic, the letterwriter is a douchebag. And DruidV seriously needs a sit down and a glass of water, a long one. Maybe a vacation to a rocky island far away from the rest of humanity with a lot of seagulls. I think he’d have a better sense of perspective after being covered with a two cm thick layer of sea bird shit. He thinks his boner is in peril now, just wait. *evil grin*
I maintain a pretty average size, and frankly the only thing I monitor about my eating habits is my portions, even though this can mainly be attributed to the fact that my meal plan for the university is somewhat lacking in funds for the whole year.