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antifeminism douchebaggery dozens of upvotes men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA reddit self-congratulation shit that never happened

What do women want? Ask a dude. Ask an awesome dude.

Oh, ladies, you poor, deluded ladies, so unaware of the basic facts about yourselves. If only you had an objective source for information on the mystery that is you! Happily, a Men’s Rights Redditor by the name of nigglereddit has decided to throw a giant clue your way:

You may want to step back and take a look at the entire thread here, especially nigglereddit’s original post about the different ways he and his wife have responded to being new parents, in which he mocks his wife for what sounds very much like undiagnosed postpartum depression, blaming her misery not on brain chemistry or sleep deprivation or any of a zillion other things that tend to stress out new mothers but on all those terrible women’s magazines and books and TV shows she reads and/or watches.

Also, he pats himself on the back for being a totally cool and awesome dude who handles both his job and his duties as a father in a super awesome way — way better than his wife handles her new motherhood — because he’s a man, damnit, and totally able to see the world in an objective way.

Needless to day, this meaty slab of misogynist shitthatneverthappened got dozens up upvotes from the r/mensrights regulars.

Thanks to r/againstmensrights for pointing me to this terrible post.

EDITED TO ADD:

Speaking of which, the good folks at r/againstmensrights have assembled these handy guides to the shittiest comments in the shitty r/mensrights thread. A-one and a-two.

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ideologuereview
9 years ago

Yes, question-dodging duly noted indeed. I’m not going to answer for what a MRA did not post about a certain issue, that’s just stupid. It’s even stupider to assume that there were some ulterior motives for what they did not do. It’s amazing that in this enlightened day and age people are called racists for what they don’t say, rather than what they do.

ideologuereview
9 years ago

You honestly don’t recognize when people are mocking your rhetorical style by imitating it? Oh dear.
Oh, so you were lying about your thoughts on the whole racism thing and just saying that because mockery. You never really, really meant that you thought all Men’s Rights Activists were racist, that was all a lie. But it wasn’t a lie because Elam used certain words.
Were you always this way, or did you get worse when you started getting into feminism?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

I wonder if he’ll make a game about me? It’s been a while since Preggo Punchout, surely it’s time for something new.

Still no attempt to explain why he should be considered a source of moral authority, I see.

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

(The idea that it’s impossible to be viciously polite is particularly amusing to those of us from cultures that excel at it, such as the UK and Japan.)

“With all due respect,” and “I’ll pray for you” are very American phrases IR/FF might be familiar with too. “With all due respect” in particular is for deliberate catiness what “I’m not racist, but” is for casual racism.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@lowquacks

I’ll grant you that part of the South deserve special mention for creative use of the phrase “bless your heart”.

MordsithJ
MordsithJ
9 years ago

hey look, here’s another unjustly imprisoned man who could really use some help:
http://www.freebyroncase.com/

This one seems custom-made for MRA’s looking for a cause. He’s white, and he was convicted with no evidence and only the testimony of a vengeful ex-girlfriend! Now I have to wonder, with guys like Byron Case sitting in prison for crimes they did not commit, why oh why are the FULLY EXONERATED Duke LaCrosse Players still held up as MRA martyrs?

Hint: It starts with an “r”, ends with an “e”, and rhymes with “ape.”

ideologuereview
9 years ago

So are Men’s Rights Activists still supposed to be racist, or did you lie about that to “mock” me? I mean, you pretty much disregard any evidence contrary to your preconceived notions, so I’m sure you are hard at work forgetting that black men can be MRAs too. It’s amazing how disingenuous someone who champions honesty can be, and the roundabout ways she rationalizes her lies. After all, when lies are mean-spirited, manipulative, and cruel in nature, they’re okay.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Oh, you’re still fixating on this? I believe that it’s possible for some black men to be MRAs. That does not in any way change the fact that the MRM as a whole is racist, as are most white MRAs.

Now are you going to answer any of the questions you’ve been asked?

captainbathrobe
captainbathrobe
9 years ago

IR, if you’re going to hang around here, at least try to be amusing. I don’t come here see boring trolls be boring, I come here to be entertained. Dance, monkey, dance!

ideologuereview
9 years ago

That does not in any way change the fact that the MRM as a whole is racist, as are most white MRAs.
That’s what you want to believe and you’ll just disregard any evidence to the contrary. It’s pathological for you, feminism is your religion and anyone who disagrees with it is an unenlightened sacrilege with [negative character traits].
Like I said, anyone who thinks that an organization with black members and capitalizes on the talents and contributions of those black members is racist is more worthy of pity than anything else. You are constantly reinventing the past to suit your own psychological constructs, and it’s a tedious and miserable cycle.
This is what a feminist looks like.

ideologuereview
9 years ago

captainbathrobe, I know you’re saying that to hurt me because modern feminism is a rotten and spiteful movement which attracts rotten and spiteful people. There could be no other reason for you to say that.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

It’s pathological for you, feminism is your religion and anyone who disagrees with it is an unenlightened sacrilege with [negative character traits].

Comical hyperbole aside, what is “an unenlightened sacrilege”? Acts can be sacrilegious, but people cannot be be described as a/an sacrilege.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

Not a racist movement? I just went through the comments here and haven’t seen a single person call out Elam’s blatant anti-black rhetoric:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/sycophants/ftb-and-the-uncletomosphere/

Nor have I seen anything calling him out over at r/mensrights.

Nurdy Dancing herself seems too interested in re-tooling the emotional charge of the N-word to serve her ideological agenda to even notice.

An actual social justice movement that was genuinely concerned about the enormous oppressions based on race would never stoop to bastardizing the N-word’s meaning like this. Paul Elam’s comments in that article, essentially a white man dismissing a black man as a fawning slave of another white man (not to mention completely ignoring his arguments), should be triggering a shit-storm right now.

You all make me sick. Your excuses for them, especially, FactFailer. You’re a pathetic fucking toady for bigotry and violence.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

lol at the guy excusing violent sadism and racism saying feminism attracts rotten and spiteful people. This is what an MRA looks like.

katz
9 years ago

Question-dodging is a particularly odd point for IR/FF to be harping on.

When is Preggo Punchout coming out, champ?

katz
9 years ago

TULGEY HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU HE IS NOT RACIST HE SAID HE WASN’T RIGHT AT THE TOP JEEZ WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM HIM

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

Good point, katz! I hadn’t even considered that. In fact, now that I think about it, for the past 40 years or so, no white feminist has ever been racist or done/said something racially problematic. Ideologuereview should really share this insight with black feminists and see what happens. I suspect he will really enlighten them!

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

I mean, there have been lots and lots of African-Americans in the feminist movement, so, you know, it’s practically like a racism vaccine!

I know you’re saying that to hurt me because modern feminism is a rotten and spiteful movement which attracts rotten and spiteful people. There could be no other reason for you to say that.

Speaking of things FactFailer should do, why don’t you go over this article with that logic and see what comes up, champ?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Indeed. Audre Lorde’s poetry was first published in the 60s, and unlike the few black MRAs who most other MRAs have never heard of almost all feminists know who she was – her poetry is even taught in women’s studies classes. This must mean that there were no race issues in the feminist community after about 1965 and every single white feminist stopped being racist, right?

(Writing that without breaking character was a challenge, you guys, I think I deserve a drink now.)

kiki
kiki
9 years ago

I bet FF is working on a new version of Preggo Punchout in which the characters say ‘I’m terribly sorry’ and ‘I respect your diversity of opinion’ and ‘I’m here to learn’ with every punch.

kiki
kiki
9 years ago

Defending people’s jobs is a ‘political action’.

Oh, right-wing jackoffs of the internet. Don’t ever change.

Kakanian
Kakanian
9 years ago

>Reverse the genders and you have a made-for-TV-movie. And feminism says that men and women are equal, so you feminists should not be so offended.

I’m pretty certain even feminist made-for-TV-classics such as “Ilsa, she-wolf of the SS” and “I spit on your grave” do not feature anything approaching that level of violence against men by women.

>Actually, I have a link to the article right here: Have You Ever Beat Up A Boyfriend? Cause, Uh, We Have

I miss the part where they admit that the violence made them moist and they suggest that their readers should try to hit their partners too in similar situations. Guess I’ll have to read between the lines or something.

heidihi
heidihi
9 years ago

“That’s what you want to believe and you’ll just disregard any evidence to the contrary. ”

I love how when Cassandra explains how MRAs are racist he just is all like “that’s just like, your OPINION, man,” waves away all of Elam’s racist articles, and gives NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY 😀

Indeed, this is what an MRA looks like. This and Preggo Punchout.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Actually to be fair Preggo Punchout was a bit weird even for an MRA.

somemensch bored with this schmuck

I like how FF thinks it’s a tremendous gotcha victory to crow over when he fails to demonstrate that white MRAs took up the cause of a black man, and Cassandra starts asking him to prove that white MRAs aren’t racist.

I mean, c’mon, he showed you a BLACK MRA, what more do you want?

Falconer
9 years ago

Whoops, left my other hat on….

inurashii
inurashii
9 years ago

Dear Mr. Idealogue Review, I appreciate your dedication to the MRM cause in the face of overwhelming evidence of its problematic nature and disconnect from reality. As always, I deeply respect your right to express yourself through sneering condescension and hypocrisy.

With that in mind, I have provided the following review of your recent efforts as evidence of said deep and abiding respect.

Put forth:
Your response to the claim that the MRM is racist is that it contains people of color.
Reviewed:
Does this mean that Dave Futrelle’s (and my) existence in feminism prove that feminism is not misandristic? Because otherwise it would appear that your argument follows an invisible exception with which you have not yet graced us. Please provide.

Put forth:
On several occasions you suggest that members of the “man boobs” community of dodging questions.
Reviewed:
It would appear that your question backlog is not yet cleared. Please review and clear out.

Put forth:
You state several times that you ‘respect’ those who express themselves through foul language. Moreover, you use overtly flowery positive language to describe those with whom you virulently disagree.
Reviewed:
While I am impressed that you see fit to reassert your respect for blue language at literally every turn in which it is used, your respect might be made clearer if you acknowledged once and then let your argument speak for itself (to whatever extent it does). Moreover, questioning the genuine nature of other commenters’ expressions of respect is somewhat strange.

Put forth:
You seem to posit that once someone (say, Paul Elam) has disavowed something (say, violence), any evidence of wrongdoing in that vein (say, talking about doing egregious violence to specific people or a class of them) is null and void.
Reviewed:
In a court of law, a ‘not guilty’ plea does not result in immediate acquittal. While the “man boobs” forum is not a court of law and operates differently, the necessity of backing up a claim is nonetheless still present here.

Put forth:
You seem to believe that others should be banned from commenting because they misrepresent your motivations and seem to imply hypocrisy on Mr. Futrelle’s part.
Reviewed:
You have repeatedly ascribed motivations to other forumgoers (whom you, no doubt, respect deeply), most of which have been directly refuted by them and which little evidence has been shown — sometimes in the exact same comment in which you complain about it having been done to you.

Put forth:
You claim to be ‘here to learn’. You also claim that level-headed, non-profane rhetoric will assist you and others in this goal.
Reviewed:
You don’t seem to have expressed any clearer understanding of the issues to which you have been repeatedly exposed, regardless of its form of delivery.

Put forth:
You seem to claim that the MRM is not a hate movement, and that feminism is.
Reviewed:
The MRM does not seem to champion a single cause that doesn’t involve hating someone. Feminism, while anti-patriarchy, is frequently a champion for positive action that assigns no enemies whatsoever.

Please address these outstanding issues at your earliest convenience.

ideologuereview
9 years ago

I love how when Cassandra explains how MRAs are racist he just is all like “that’s just like, your OPINION, man,” waves away all of Elam’s racist articles, and gives NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY
You are aware that the piece written by the black MRA is hosted on Elam’s site? I also mentioned that he chose a black woman to read out his site news. Obviously you white feminists know more about how the Men’s Rights Movement treats black people than the black people in the Men’s Rights Movement. Why don’t you go preach to those black people on how enlightened you are about their race and identity and see how they react?

Now, Cassandra, care to explain why you suddenly changed your statement from “all MRAs are racist” to “all white MRAs are racist”?
Defending people’s jobs is a ‘political action’.
Union work is political action.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Sorry, FF, but teaching you to read for comprehension would be far too time-consuming a task for me to be willing to take it on for free. Also, you appear to be under the impression that people here are required to answer your questions while you refuse to answer theirs, so as an object lesson in internet etiquette I’m not going to answer any questions at all from you until you answer all of the questions put to you in this thread so far.

Ugh
Ugh
9 years ago

Hold up team. Did you know about Herman Cain? We’ve been wrong all along, it’s LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for Republicans to be a racist party!

heidihi
heidihi
9 years ago

Also, Sarah Palin means the Republicans lurve having ladies in power!

heidihi
heidihi
9 years ago

wait wait…the existence of David Futrelle…means….means….feminists actually LOVE MEN???? MIND BLOWN.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Margaret Thatcher was a woman, therefore the British Conservative Party is a radical feminist organization.

Ugh
Ugh
9 years ago

Gyaincain Norbu has attended Communist Party conferences, and is a Tibetan.

Checkmate, Dalai Lama.

Historophilia
Historophilia
9 years ago

I’m a Feminist and a member of the British Conservative party!

We exist! I assure you!

Myoo
Myoo
9 years ago

The US military has had people of color as soldiers since pretty much its inception and it has never been racist. Disregard the existence of Executive Order 9981, issued by Harry Truman to abolish racial discrimination in the military, that was clearly just a formality.

captainbathrobe
captainbathrobe
9 years ago

@IR

captainbathrobe, I know you’re saying that to hurt me because modern feminism is a rotten and spiteful movement which attracts rotten and spiteful people. There could be no other reason for you to say that.

Eh, that’s mildly amusing, I suppose. I know you can do better.

drst
drst
9 years ago

I’m not going to answer for what a MRA did not post about a certain issue, that’s just stupid. It’s even stupider to assume that there were some ulterior motives for what they did not do.

Holy shit, I’m so bookmarking this for the next time any of these douchecanoes insist that every woman on earth answer for the thing that one feminist said once and/or demands to know why David/women/feminists refuse to discuss X issue and claims it proves misandry.

The lack of self awareness… it just has to be crippling. How can anyone operate with that level of cognitive dissonance?

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

I see IR is still confused as to what this site is about. FactFail, read the header until you get it, although I am aware that reading for comprehension is not exactly your forte.

cloudiah
9 years ago

He’s still going? Good morning everyone, or good whatever time it is where you are!

Ponkz
Ponkz
9 years ago

As a Scot, specifically a west coast Glaswegian Scot from a working class background, I find the pearl clutching certain trolls like to engage in over the idea of…(gulp)…swearing incredibly amusing. Seriously guys, don’t fucking bother setting foot in Glasgow if you’re ever in Scotland – where the F-word is used every second word – or you’ll choke!

Kakanian
Kakanian
9 years ago

> Obviously you white feminists know more about how the Men’s Rights Movement treats black people than the black people in the Men’s Rights Movement. Why don’t you go preach to those black people on how enlightened you are about their race and identity and see how they react?

You know… the problem that white women face very different issues from black women and generally stand in a different relation to the men of their own race gets discussed in feminist literature not unfrequently. In general, white feminist females will agree that they can’t really represent black women’s issues as well as they should per their movement’s claim. It’s mostly because it’s impossible to actually neatly seperate the social and class issues from issues of race in common language use in the USA… at least according to what they believe. The result of that is that there are a plethora of black feminist blogs which offer them a space to discuss their troubles on their own terms as they righfully assume that lots of their specific issues would get drowned out in white feminist spaces.

That level of awareness of how problematic race still is stands in a bit of a contrast to: “We ain’t racists, we got black people here!”

In a way the whole matter is sort of similar to how the third gen integrated the fact that the majority of their number will never ever be lesbian into the movement. Cause, you know, gay men’s issues? Are those even men’s issues already these days?

Ugh
Ugh
9 years ago

The most hilarious thing is that the guy defending rape apologists, who wanted to make a game about beating up preganant women, thinks that swearing lowers the level of discourse.

Hint to IR: the discourse is already at as low a level as it possibly can be, and you have yourself and your fellow abuser lobbyists to thank for that.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

In a court of law, a ‘not guilty’ plea does not result in immediate acquittal. While the “man boobs” forum is not a court of law and operates differently, the necessity of backing up a claim is nonetheless still present here.

If it was, it would certainly make my life easier and the judge at the court I work at would stop having defendants argue with her over the fact that they have to come back to talk to the state. “How come I have to come back when I plead not guilty? It is obvious I am not!”

Also IR: Please answer the question I posed earlier about abusive relationship.

Where in this:

They don’t have to dream about it, there have been a number of articles on Elam’s site written by men who have been victims of physical abuse and false accusations.

does it give the men the right to do this:

I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

Because if you fail to answer, then I am going to have to go with the realization that you are not only stupid, but a complete coward. Although I knew that one already but as someone already said “hope springs eternal” and you might surprise me!

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

The IR portion of this thread has been an excellent demonstration of why the abusers rhetorical devices simply do not work as well in writing as they do in person. This is the reason we recommend that people who have to communicate with their abuser do it in writing only.
Fascinating, but creepy.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
9 years ago

How can someone be “viciously polite”?

Someone has never been to the Upper Midwest (the Dakotas, Minnesota, and Northern Wisconsin, for those not in the know). “Viciously polite” is perhaps the best encapsulation of our culture I’ve ever heard.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

Here in the People’s Republic of the Puget Sound we totally do viciously polite. Not as well as our friends from the South, of course, bless their hearts.

XTra
9 years ago

[quote=”IR”]I love how when Cassandra explains how MRAs are racist he just is all like “that’s just like, your OPINION, man,” waves away all of Elam’s racist articles, and gives NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY
You are aware that the piece written by the black MRA is hosted on Elam’s site? I also mentioned that he chose a black woman to read out his site news. Obviously you white feminists know more about how the Men’s Rights Movement treats black people than the black people in the Men’s Rights Movement. Why don’t you go preach to those black people on how enlightened you are about their race and identity and see how they react[/quote]

Just because one is black does not men they care about the rights of blacks. The article IR linked to did not even have a black MRA writing about black issues. But hey what do I know, perhaps slave owners in the south were not racist at all because they even let black women breast feed their babies. How could you possibly be racist if you do that?

XTra
9 years ago

damn block quote fail

XCT
XCT
9 years ago

There are also female MRAs, which totally proves that the MRM isn’t a misogynyfest. I defeated you with my divine MAN LOGEEK.