MRAs, forever exploring new frontiers in victimology! The latest revelation: Apparently men are being intimidated into hitting on women in bars due to the mysterious, malevolent power of their femaleness.
Here’s Howsmydirktaste, putting this theory before the good folks in the Men’s Rights subreddit for some “peer review.”
[S]eduction aims to use a man’s desire against him by giving him the possibly false impression that he may have sexual relations with the seducer. By doing so he may make decisions that he might not otherwise make (buying a drink at a bar, paying for a purse, etc.)
So women are engaged in some vast conspiracy to extort drinks and purses from men they don’t want to have sex with?
I’m pretty sure that unless a woman is holding a sign that reads “I’ll have sex with you for a drink,” that you really shouldn’t assume that she’ll have sex with you for a drink.
Intimidation does the same; the prospect of physical, monetary or emotional pain subjects the subordinate into doing things they might not otherwise do. Both of these options result in the same consequence of the dominant one convincing the subordinate that it is in their best interest to do something that is not in their best interest.
So a woman sitting in a bar looking pretty is the equivalent of a mob enforcer.
Now morally: the main claim against male intimidation is that men, on average bigger and stronger, are being unjust by asserting a natural superiority. By doing so they have an unfair disadvantage.
Well, the claim is that when men act in an intimidating way towards women, they’re intimidating. Merely being larger than a woman isn’t a crime.
But sexually, don’t women have that same power? Men are genetically predisposed to look for mating opportunities in all women, and when a woman presents that opportunity, even the most iron-willed man could fall prey.
Apparently, we men are all at the mercy of our penises, and our penises are at the mercy of ladies looking sexy in our general vicinity.
Women don’t face that same situation; their requisite near-monogamy (because they can only have one child at a time, they are more selective in their sexual selections) means that male seduction does not hold the same sway.
Actually, the problem is that many traditional methods of “male seduction” actually involve real intimidation. And today there are a vast array of PUA sites out there offering updated versions of the old intimidating ways, teaching “pickup” techniques that are basically guides to date rape.
I think everyone here can identify a situation in which they or others have given undue attention or favor to a woman who seems a possible sexual partner. Doesn’t that result in the same affect as intimidation?
I’m going to step out on a limb here and say “no.”
Shorter Truthster: “I find it hilarious when my confirmation bias enables me to read unsubstantiated details into stories!”
@Troof, I’m not gonna try to disprove your claim because I don’t feel like reading back through comments to find this shit out and everyone else will do it for me.
My point stands, though, that you got called out and your response was a derail.
But derailing’s all you’ve really got, so I guess I should be lenient.
OK, so this guy thinks he will end up getting used. Well, it happens, and users come in BOTH genders.
I love Troof so much right now.
“I didn’t call her a slut–I called her an alpha-fellater!! That’s totally different.”
Seriously. You said that. You… you had me at “I’m an unabashed PUA, and that’s totally not rape.”
Hee.
Sorry, guys, but this troll always gives me giggle attacks. He works so hard to defeat his own arguments in one post!!
To be clear, I’m apologizing because his views are so reprehensible nobody should ever laugh. They should gasp in horror, point, and shun him. Shun him hard.
Fight the urge to laugh. Fight it!!!
Here’s the deal.
Seduction: You will be rewarded if you act in a way you might not act otherwise, but will probably not harm you.
Intimidation: You will be actively harmed if you refuse to act in a way you probably would not act otherwise, and might also harm you.
Everybody sees the difference, right?
@moonz:
Come on, let’s be fair. Blue balls are pretty painful! So basically not being given sex is like physical harm.
Eh?
Ehhhhhh?
An Inconvenient TruthA Clichéd Fallacy.FTFY.
I don’t know, Truthy, this looks to me like a vast array of sites offering advice that looks an awful lot like date-rape how-tos.
https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=oyI&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&ei=Yx1iUPnGN8rfyAHJjYC4Cw&ved=0CB0QvwUoAQ&q=pua+%22last+minute+resistance%22&spell=1&biw=1429&bih=566
I’m coming to this thread late, but I want to assure NWO that this will definitely be going into the Book of Learnin’:
EDUCATION
In order to attend any college in the U.S., male students are required to watch a video about how men are evil and women are good. The student must then take a test about the video, and if he scores less than 100% he can’t go to college.
I lived in Ireland for a while (ooh, maybe I was that Canadian guy’s dream girl!), and if you were a regular at a pub, it was considered rude not to stand your round and buy drinks for everyone in the house once in a while. That must’ve gotten messy after hours.
That Last Minute Resistance and Freeze Outs Stuff is disturbing. Way to teach men how to be manipulative sociopaths. I had an ex who was extremely manipulative and seemed to play all sorts of passive aggressive head games. The more I learn about game, the more I think he was into it.
Those posts were terrible, although some of the comments were not so much rape-y as just kind of sad…
So this is the modern day equivalent of “Would you like to come up and see my etchings?”
I’m picturing something like this. And the discussion is probably along the lines of “The blue represents my sufferings and tribulations. The mauve bits are reflective of the lessons I’ve learned during my great trials (see how the mauve sort of ‘takes over’ that happy face in the upper left? That symbolizes my ‘don’t worry, be happy’ philosophy), and the white background is a reminder that hope springs eternal.” That dialog totally screams sex, and no woman can resist a man who screams about sex. Do not worry if the woman collapses in hysterical laughter at this point; that’s just another kind of LMR! Keep kinoing her, and don’t forget to LIHGOD:EKNG, since that is what really closes the deal.
From one of those awful LMR sites:
What a catch.
BTW, if any men out there would like to know what LIHGOD:EKNG stands for, please send me $29.95 and I will send you my FREE e-book: How to Have Lots of Passionless, Machine-Like Sex with Insecure & Vulnerable Ladies. Manly orgasms are guaranteed!*
*Orgasms for any gender are not actually guaranteed. E-book is not actually free. Product may contain peanuts, so if you have nut allergies proceed with caution. Pregnant women, the elderly and women who are conscious should avoid prolonged exposure to PUAs, as they have been known to cause irreversible vomiting laughter, which is dangerous for all in the vicinity. Please do not kino anyone without their express permission, as that can lead to assault charges. Do not read e-book in the shower or bathtub, or during thunderstorms. Please keep e-book refrigerated, and use before the expiration date on the package. Do not operate heavy machinery while under the influence of PUAs, unless you are chasing them down in an armored tank.
Here’s a PUA bragging about how he totally scored with a HB! And by “scored,” he apparently meant “date raped.” [TRIGGER WARNING]
This PUA post is discussed in detail here:
http://972mag.com/guys-i-just-totally-raped-this-student-chick/6803/
From David’s link:
They have LAWYERS present at their classes? Holy crap.
Wow. [shudder] It looks like this was actually reported to the police as “incitement to rape” since he also encourages other men to use the same techniques. I couldn’t find any story that said what, if anything, happened, although the police were able to discover his real identity.
Also what the hell was this magical “safety rule” that allowed her to make him stop?
She told him no and refused to take her clothes and underwear off, repeatedly objected to what he was doing and he just kept going? What the hell else was she supposed to do?
She clearly was not being allowed to “stop at any moment” IF THE GUY IGNORED HER EVERY TIME SHE TOLD HIM SHE DID NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX!
What is this special password that will prevent PUA dudes from date raping me? Because I think we should all be informed as a matter of public safety.
Also, when will these people understand, that if you do not allow someone to say no or withdraw consent, that if you repeatedly ignore their no’s, verbal or non-verbal and they eventually give up and lie there in the hope that it may be over sooner…. THEN YOU HAVE FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE ARGELHJBZDSKFYHZKDFJHVXKDFBKHFGB
@inurashii
The good news for him is that he’ll definitely succeed in giving the women in his life a real mad
Holy shit. Jesus H. Christ, if she says “no” repeatedly is it so damn difficult to say “OK, I’ll stop” and THEN STOP?? I’ve been in situations like that and damn. There comes a point where you realize “he’s going to rape me no matter what I say or do.” Stunned doesn’t begin to describe my reaction.
There’s a famous rape case where a guy took a woman’s car keys away after she had driven him to his apartment after their date. Guy took the keys, wouldn’t give them back until she had come up to his place. Once up there, he took her clothes off and penetrated her as she lay there frozen and crying. After he was done she asked him, “Are you going to kill me now? Please don’t kill me.” Appallingly, at least four guys in my law school class said it WASN’T rape because “she never said no.”
Those two weeks of Criminal class were the worst of my first year in law school. Triggers galore.
Also, just to stay on topic, I’ve bought other women drinks before as a sign of interest. Somehow, I managed to refrain from raping them after they either declined the drink, or accepted it but didn’t reciprocate interest. Fancy that.
@Historophilia
It’s not that they don’t understand that, it’s just that they don’t give a shit as long as they don’t get caught.
@shadow
You are of course right, I am still naively functioning under the belief that most people are decent at heart.
Well I still believe this but I’ll go so far as to say that anyone who subscribes to PUA beliefs automatically does not.
Possibly this one: “I just dialed 911 so they can record me screaming NO STOP RAPING ME as you rape me to make it easier for the prosecutor during the trial. so NO STOP RAPING ME” and yell that last over and over until he stops.
(I know this is very unlikely and not at all the secret password. Because there is no secret password since they have no intention of ever stopping. 🙁 )