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New frontiers in victimology: Men are “intimidated” into buying women drinks in bars

Women intimidating a man in a bar.

MRAs, forever exploring new frontiers in victimology!  The latest revelation: Apparently men are being intimidated into hitting on women in bars due to the mysterious, malevolent power of their femaleness.

Here’s Howsmydirktaste, putting this theory before the good folks in the Men’s Rights subreddit for some “peer review.”

[S]eduction aims to use a man’s desire against him by giving him the possibly false impression that he may have sexual relations with the seducer. By doing so he may make decisions that he might not otherwise make (buying a drink at a bar, paying for a purse, etc.)

So women are engaged in some vast conspiracy to extort drinks and purses from men they don’t want to have sex with?

I’m pretty sure that unless a woman is holding a sign that reads “I’ll have sex with you for a drink,” that you really shouldn’t assume that she’ll have sex with you for a drink.

Intimidation does the same; the prospect of physical, monetary or emotional pain subjects the subordinate into doing things they might not otherwise do. Both of these options result in the same consequence of the dominant one convincing the subordinate that it is in their best interest to do something that is not in their best interest.

So a woman sitting in a bar looking pretty is the equivalent of a mob enforcer.

 Now morally: the main claim against male intimidation is that men, on average bigger and stronger, are being unjust by asserting a natural superiority. By doing so they have an unfair disadvantage.

Well, the claim is that when men act in an intimidating way towards women, they’re intimidating. Merely being larger than a woman isn’t a crime.

But sexually, don’t women have that same power? Men are genetically predisposed to look for mating opportunities in all women, and when a woman presents that opportunity, even the most iron-willed man could fall prey.

Apparently, we men are all at the mercy of our penises, and our penises are at the mercy of ladies looking sexy in our general vicinity.

Women don’t face that same situation; their requisite near-monogamy (because they can only have one child at a time, they are more selective in their sexual selections) means that male seduction does not hold the same sway.

Actually, the problem is that many traditional methods of “male seduction” actually involve real intimidation. And today there are a vast array of PUA sites out there offering updated versions of the old intimidating ways, teaching “pickup” techniques that are basically guides to date rape.

I think everyone here can identify a situation in which they or others have given undue attention or favor to a woman who seems a possible sexual partner. Doesn’t that result in the same affect as intimidation?

I’m going to step out on a limb here and say “no.”

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The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

And I suspect I’m not the only one who thinks that having sex with someone who doesn’t actually want to have sex must be a pretty unpleasant experience for both participants. After all, unless you’re some kind of sadist, or someone profoundly incapable of empathy, shouldn’t an unmistakable look of fear, hatred or revulsion on her part be a fairly massive turn-off?

But then again, my partner’s pleasure is an absolutely crucial ingredient for me, which puts me fundamentally at odds with most MRAs.

This. More and more, it seems to me that the MRM is just a bunch of sadistic men who want to hurt women, who want to abuse us sexually and emotionally, and whose only pleasure comes from this.

pecunium
8 years ago

NWO: Yep… that guy is suffering; his life has been ruined.

A former Xavier University basketball star, expelled for a student code violation but cleared of criminal charges, will be heading to the University of Maryland. Desmine Wells reportedly chose the Terps over Memphis, Oregon and Kentucky, according to CBS Sports.

Or maybe not, he had four schools recruiting him, even after Xavier expelled him.

Of course you want Xavier to be forced to not expel people; no matter what they think happened. The right of that institution to make its own decisions is null and void, so far as you are concerned, because a gov’t office disagreed with them.

Xavier has to listen to the gov’t, not their own conscience if they want to please you.

handtoes
8 years ago

PUA?
A good new danger to learn of.
And the dangers never end.
There is one saying doods should pick up chicks in least competitive social groups where “You get paired up with one of these girls and are forced into locking eyes with her” http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/kill-your-competition-with-this-obvious-tip-vt146782.html
“Forced into locking eyes”
These people are going to get friendzoned because they will not make the intention clear, and will become dangerous.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

Show us one PUA site that mentions LMR in a non-rapey way. Just one.

Easy.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

That’s not a site, it’s a post by Roosh, who is well known for advocating rape.

0/10

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I’m beginning to suspect that the inconvenient truth that our friend is hiding is that he doesn’t actually know what the word “rape” means. I also suspect that this is a deliberate choice on his part – if he learned what it meant he’d have to admit that he’s devoted his life to trying to make sure it happens as often as possible.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

@An Inconvenient Truth

You’ve taken her on a date or two, you’ve held long conversations with her, and you’ve plotted and strategized — imagine the frustration to have her within ejaculating distance of your bed only to see sex vanish with a poof as she grabs her purse and tells you what a nice time she had.

Women want to be led by men, and never is this more apparent, and more true, than two steps from your bedroom. Women particularly love when men tell them what to do sexually. It hits all the female buttons that crave submission to a dominant man. She will love you for making her a follower, and resent you for allowing her to lead.
Ordering a girl to change positions — note, I said *ordering*, not politely asking — is one of the hottest things you can do for a woman in bed.

Make your move sooner rather than later, but always make it on your terms, never hers.

You really don’t understand what non-rapey means, do you?

cloudiah
8 years ago

Cassandra and Myoo, I think he knows exactly what rape is, and has a positive view of it.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

That’s not a site, it’s a post by Roosh, who is well known for advocating rape.

That’s not a post by Roosh, sweetie.

You really don’t understand what non-rapey means, do you?

You really don’t understand what consensual dominance means, do you?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

You really don’t understand what consensual dominance means, do you?

Yeah, we do. But true to your unrelenting quest to further your exquisite fucknuttery, you and your PUA cohort don’t seem to know jack shit about consensual ANYTHING.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

That’s not a post by Roosh, sweetie.

Sorry douchecanoe honeybunch, they all blur into one big rape-advocating mass to me. Hmm, I wonder why that is…

She will love you for making her a follower, and resent you for allowing her to lead.
Ordering a girl to change positions — note, I said *ordering*, not politely asking

Sure sounds consensual to me!

Truthy, dear, ‘consensual dominance’ means ‘both/all partners have mutually and openly discussed and agreed on paramaters of dominance in specific and exclusive scenarios with safewords, and an understanding of what will happen’ not ‘BUTBUTBUT SOME RAPIST PUA TOTALLY SAID SHE’D BE INTO ME FORCING HER TO DO SHIT!!!’.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

I mean, if your definition of consent is ‘an implicit assumption that chicks totally want this’, no fucking wonder you’re a movement of rapists.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

You really don’t understand what consensual dominance means, do you?

Actually I do you sack of shit. And neither terms like “barebacking persistence” nor the tacit approval/support of stories that involve forcefully removing the clothes of and penetrating an unwilling partner have any legitimate place next to the word “consensual.”

Look, fuckwit, we’re all well aware of the studies that show that many men will admit to behavior that is legally (not to mention morally) rape/sexual assault as long as it isn’t called rape. Your bullshit, cutesy euphemisms aren’t fooling anybody.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

‘consensual dominance’ means ‘both/all partners have mutually and openly discussed and agreed on paramaters of dominance in specific and exclusive scenarios with safewords, and an understanding of what will happen’

Sex with you sounds almost as fun as filing taxes.

And you people call PUA approaches to seduction “transactional?”

Historophilia
Historophilia
8 years ago

Truthy, that’s how intelligent, well informed adults have sex yeah.

Intelligent adults know that communication is the single most important factor in having good sex.

So if forcing a woman to do things in bed without discussing that they are okay with her beforehand is your idea of “fun” then I expect that the plod will come knocking on your dorr before all too long.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

OH NOES, A RAPIST THINKS IT WOULD BE BORING TO HAVE SEX WITH ME BECAUSE IT WOULD JUST BE TOO DARN DIFFICULT TO DO SOMETHING LIKE MAKE SURE I WAS INTO IT!

Woe is me. WOE.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Oh, no, a rapist doesn’t think sex with me sounds like fun!!! THE HORROR. I mean, HALLEFUCKINGLUJAH.

Historophilia
Historophilia
8 years ago

Would anyone else rather have nothing but “boring” sex for the rest of their lives rather than have sex with a PUA?

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

This is not difficult.

Person 1: “So, I’m really into tying people up, how does that sound to you?”
2: “Yeah, I’m way into that. Just make sure my wrists are in front of me otherwise it gets uncomfortable. Oh, and you can spank me if you want, but don’t pull my hair.”
1: “Awesome. If you want to stop, say ‘jellyfish’. So, shall we do this?”
2: “Hell yeah!”*

Or we could go with your scenario of “assumed submission” and just have Person 1 rape someone.

Yeah… so I know which one sounds more fun. (pssst, it’s not the rape)

(*Am I missing something when I do my taxes?)

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

Also note how in my hypothetical scenario above, it applied to one specific scenario (i.e. that sex right there) not ‘just treat a person like shit whenever you see them, it will totally make them want to get in your pants’.

Seriously. Consent. Truthy, can you please provide your definition of ‘consent’ for the class?

And Historophilia, I’d rather do nothing but filing taxes for the rest of my life than have sex with a PUA.

elodieunderglass
8 years ago

@thenatfantastic Sex with you sounds both safe and delightful! I would like to express my platonic admiration of your values!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I’d rather go to the dentist than fuck a PUA, and I really don’t like dentists at all.

Gametime
8 years ago

Shit, is filing taxes supposed to be like having fun and consensual sex? I must be missing a deduction or something.

inurashii
inurashii
8 years ago

Yeah I am definitely doing my taxes wrong.

inurashii
inurashii
8 years ago

It just struck me that what these motherfuckers are saying is basically heterosexual intercourse is not fun if the woman doesn’t seem like she is making a concession to do it.

BARF BARF BARF BARF

Historophilia
Historophilia
8 years ago

Also they clearly have no concept of that fact that women do not all have the same sexual preferences and do not all think the same.

For the last time we do not have a hive mind!

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

Setting aside thenatfantastic’s boner-killing hypothetical scenario, I invite you to kindly remove your rape-goggles and enjoy this hot-off-the-presses illustration of seduction done right.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

And there are a number of perfectly legal ways to convince fence-sitters to act,

That is not what ignoring someone’s consent is doing and you know it. Even the most skeesy salesperson knows that you can’t just fucking take the money out of the person’s wallet and hand them the merchandise and call it done. That person has to hand the money over themselves for it to be legal.

Persisting when you encounter “countless objections” is taking the money out of the person’s wallet and throwing the shitty used appliance at the customer after the customer has said “Uh, no, I want to shop around for a bit.”

As others have said, not that a woman’s body is property, but for fuck’s sake, if you view it as a sales pitch then this just shows that PUAs are also really shitty salespeople.

To put it another way, when I was a temp and applying for jobs left and right, I read an article by a former salesperson turned hiring manager who said that it’s not a bad idea to “close” your interview, the way a salesperson would try to close a sale and ask your interviewer what you need to to say to convince them that you’re the right person for the job. I by no means think this is a magical job password, but last year when I was interviewing for my current position, I figured they already knew me since I’d temped for them before and had nothing to lose. So I asked “what do I need to say to show you that I’m the right person for this job?” they replied that they couldn’t give me a solid answer since I wasn’t the only one interviewing, but the fact that I asked that showed I was really interested and they really liked that. I got the job. So yeah, I “closed” that sale, but I did in a totally non-douchebag way. The PUA way would be to just show up for work at that office the next day and refuse to leave until they hire you (or escort you off the premises). I mean, they’d already talked to me on the phone a few times and even invited me to their place! That’s practically like saying they wanted to make me boss of everything but weren’t going to say so because well, you know, they didn’t want to seem desperate. /sarcasm

One method implies that you are aware that the other person has needs too (which is good for sales since, duh, the other person is buying) the other shows you don’t give a shit about anyone else as long as you get what you want. Which if nothing else is a really terrible attitude to have (and probably a really good way to ensure that that company won’t consider you for another position ever again).

Legally closing a sale is convincing someone without the use of force, threats of violence, or blackmail. Ignoring someone’s protestations is using force, period, and often it’s an implied threat of violence.

All this talk about how “women love to be dominated” has the distinct air of douchebags who assumed that the women they raped “dominated” just wanted him to “take the lead” because coming to terms with the fact that they’ve probably raped someone (possibly multiple someones) is too difficult for their delicate sensibilities.

The account of the douchemover who hand penetrated his date without consent where he details her shock sounds a HELL of a lot more like an account of a woman who submitted because she was scared because the guy obviously would not stop, rather than the account of a woman who was just dying to be dominated by a manly dominant man. That is the real inconvenient truth for you, I suspect.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Oh, did Nat kill your boner? One can only hope that this will force you to think with your brain instead for a while.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

*sews boner-killing patch to feminazi boiler suit*

Can you tell the class why two people talking about sex and consent like grown-ups kills your boner Truthy? Enquiring minds wish to know.

inurashii
inurashii
8 years ago

Troof, please stop; I am starting to feel genuine pity that you think that being enthusiastically propositioned is unsexy.

Seriously, you really think communicating about sex is a turn-off? That’s … sad.

When you stop having to convince a partner that having sex is fun and they genuinely want to continue doing it, does that kill your boner too? Do you need to switch out partners before they get stale?

ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Anyone else finding Truthy’s insistance on hiding his links with tinyurl really fucking creepy? Why would I click on some creepy dude’s link when I don’t know where it goes?

I mean, chances are it just goes to some fucked up PUA shit (which is bad enough), but who knows?

cloudiah
8 years ago

Trutho Punchout just really, really wants to rape someone; that’s why consent is a boner-killer for him.

Also, not going to any of your tiny URLs, creep.

cloudiah
8 years ago

He he, ninja’d by ShadetheDruid!

Gametime
8 years ago

I wonder if this “talking ruins everything, sex is only good if you make broad assumptions about what your partner wants and do it without their consent” rule carries over into other areas of life, too. Like, does Inconvenient Douche just inform his friends that they’re going to see a movie tonight and they better show up? Does he get mad when they talk about making plans and doing something that everyone would enjoy? The mind boggles.

Fitzy
Fitzy
8 years ago

I actually bit on the tiny url’s. They all lead to Heartiste. Almost every link AIT has posted on this site goes to Heartiste. It’s almost like he’s trying to tell us something…

Polliwog
8 years ago

thenatfantastic’s boner-killing hypothetical scenario

Wow. Usually little rape apologist shits like you don’t come right out and say that women actually wanting to fuck them is a turn-off.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Troof, NO ONE here (or probably elsewhere) gives a good goddamn about your boner.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

I read Truthy’s link (Heartiste AGAIN!). It’s discussing a half-hour long video in which a PUA ‘seduces’ a woman from Eastern Europe.

Here’s some choice quotes:

“At 9:24, she tries to disengage

At 10:02, the girl is suspicious of his age and demands his ID. This rarely happens, but in those rare times it does, if you are concerned about your privacy, you should carry a fake ID. Anyhow, “logical” demands like these are mostly an Eastern Euro girl phenomenon. Wayne deflects superbly by offering a quid pro quo hug in exchange for the ID. She drops the subject. Shit test passed.

At 19:20, she demurs rather coldly. Most beta males would have crumbled into dust after hearing this.

20:53, kiss compliance test passed.

That’s totally not creepy at all. The video apparently ends the date with her going back to his apartment. Heartiste says of this:

“Outside of actually standing there watching him slip the chocobar into her snatch, I don’t think you could ask for better evidence of the effectiveness of game”

Nope, not sleazy or rapey to say that any woman going to a man’s apartment WILL be having sex.

Note that in this video the PUA is a MoC, and the woman is Eastern European (Heartiste says at one point “she’s confessing her (rational) fear of ghetto black guys to… a black guy.”). Ever mindful of the reciprocal disgustingness of his audience, Heartiste puts the anal fissure on top of this shit-sundae of a post by finishing with this gem:

“PS In order to avert a predictable and repetitive shitstorm, you will be limited to one race comment. Make it count!”

Charming.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Like, does Inconvenient Douche just inform his friends that they’re going to see a movie tonight and they better show up?

Assuming he has friends, which if he’s at all like he is here, is assuming a lot.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

@Gametime

does Inconvenient Douche just inform his friends that they’re going to see a movie tonight and they better show up

No, he just accosts people on the street, pushes them into his car and drives them there. Silly.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

“Chocobar?” NO ROISSY, YOU DON’T GET TO SKEEVE ME OUT USING CHOCOLATE, YOU FUCKER.

cloudiah
8 years ago

No, he just accosts people on the street, pushes them into his car and drives them there. Silly.

And then negs them until they pay for his ticket, as well as theirs. And popcorn.

thenatfantastic
8 years ago

And then negs them until they pay for his ticket, as well as theirs. And popcorn.

That’s consensual cinema-going, they’re totally into it. Some rapist dude on the internet told me so.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

He has to use a false name and set up a safehouse, though. It was totally consensual but these precautions are just in case his cinema ‘companions’ think otherwise.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

I watched some of the video Truthie linked to so I’ll comment on a few things.

Heartiste’s over-analyzing makes it sound skeezier than it is, which is bad, since it is already skeezy in and of itself.

The guy apparently got someone else to film the street shots and the woman is clearly unaware that she’s being filmed. Then they go back to the guy’s room(I assume) and there is still filming going on. No mention of she having agreed to being recorded. Add to that the fact that he is constantly trying to push her boundaries and that it is an advertisement video, so he is just using the woman as a prop to sell his PUA scheme. It is extremely creepy.

XTra
8 years ago

[quote]I’d rather go to the dentist than fuck a PUA, and I really don’t like dentists at all.[/quote]

I don’t like dentists either but if it was that or fuck a PUA

nerdypants
nerdypants
8 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen: I totally want to move to Sweden now.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

I’d rather walk on a high windy bridge with inadequate railings than fuck a PUA. And I’m terrified of heights.

Hey, this could be like the list of Things That Should Happen to Elam that was going a little while back. 🙂

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

@Nerdypants: Well, remember that I wrote that I was so happy about the reaction of my colleague’s, simply because so many other guys were like “It’s next to impossible to know if a woman consents to sex or not!” when the matter was heavily debated in media…