Aside from Men Going Their Own Way and others who have sworn off women altogether, the almost-exclusively straight dudes of the manosphere devote an incredible amount of time trying to figure out how to get into the pants of young, hot, “fertile” women in their teens and twenties, and complain bitterly about the terrible injustice they suffer when these women refuse to have sex with them.
And then they turn around and attack women in their thirties for actually wanting to have sex with them – because these women have committed the dastardly crime of having sex with other men when they were younger. In the parlance of our times the manosphere, this is known as “riding the cock carousel.”
Today we have a lovely example of this latter phenomenon, from prolific manosphere commenter “Deti,” who attacked former “carousel riders” in this rant he left in the comments on The Woman and the Dragon. (There may be lots of equally horrible things in the comments there as well; I haven’t looked. I found Deti’s comment because it was highlighted as a piece of great wisdom on The Private Man, yet another terrible manosphere blog.)
Here’s Deti:
In light of the incalculable damage feminism has done, in light of our society being on the brink of irretrievable and total collapse, I think women need to ask themselves, individually and collectively:
Was it worth it?
Was the cock carousel worth it?
The sex, the occasional orgasms, the attention and validation, the rush, the feelings?
The drunk dancing on tables, the hangovers, the feelings of immediate regret, the knowledge that you’ve just been used as a semen receptacle (for the 14th time)?
We’re off to a rollicking start here. Apparently, table dancing and casual sex (with dudes who aren’t Deti) have brought civilization to its very knees.
Was it worth it?
The ridiculous thoughts to yourself that, no, THIS TIME it will be different. This time I won’t get f**ked over. This time I will get what I want. This time I will save it for a good man, a kind man, the right man — who never shows up.
Did you get what you wanted?
If what they wanted was casual sex with a guy they found attractive, then, uh, yes? (Whether it was good sex is another matter entirely.)
If they were looking for a longer-term relationship, and the guy did indeed turn out to be a jerk or otherwise incompatible, then, uh, no? I’m not quite sure why Deti assumes it’s the woman’s fault if the guy turns out to be Mr. Wrong. (Actually, scratch that: I do know why.)
Did the hot man, the rich man, the sexy man, the alpha, marry you? Did he give you the brass ring of commitment? Did he pledge his life to you? DId he promise to stay around for longer than just until he’s tired of f**king you and putting up with your bulls**t?
Or did you fall (again) for the player’s smooth line that “hey, I think it’s great that a woman like you can have sex with who she wants. That’s only fair. It’s a man’s world, and you should get to partake in it just like we do.”
Yep, that’s right, any man who thinks it’s ok for women to have casual sex with guys they find attractive is clearly an evil, manipulative player. And any woman who believes this is a sucker.
You get out of his bed. You’ve got to get to work this morning. You try to find your panties and put your miniskirt and 4 inch heels on to walk to your car and get an Egg McMuffin and some coffee.
Hey, come on man. Don’t bring the Egg McMuffin into this. Egg McMuffins are delicious.
You add another notch to your lipstick case (one you’ll have to come clean about someday to your therapist or drug counselor or ER doctor, if not your husband). He says “I had a great time. Let’s do it again. There’s some coffee downstairs. Help yourself. I’ve got a lot of things to do today so I need to get going. Sorry I can’t have you stay longer.” You reply weakly: “It’s OK. Call me, OK?” “Sure. You bet I will.”
Desi, worst slashfic writer ever.
LIttle do you know that he just infected you with genital herpes. You’ll find out in a week or so after the incubation period is up and you have festering blisters all over your pubic area. The pain is so excruciating you have to take the day off work, get some treatment at the ER, and stay in bed. You can’t wear panties because the weight of the fabric on the sores is too painful. You can’t walk because the skin on skin friction hurts. Oh well. I’m sure your future husband will understand.
I think we’ve just discovered a new kink: men turned on by the idea of women suffering herpes outbreaks so painful that they have to remove their panties.
In any case, herpes happens. Big deal. It’s a medical condition, not the act of an angry god. Nor is it spread primarily by sleazy players who don’t call women back. According to the CDC, roughly one in six Americans between the ages of 14 and 49 have genital herpes. And, as the CDC notes:
Most individuals infected with HSV-1 or HSV-2 experience either no symptoms or have very mild symptoms that go unnoticed or are mistaken for another skin condition. Because of this, most people infected with HSV-2 are not aware of their infection.
Back to Detiland:
Tell me: does it occur to you that you did it again? Does it occur to you that you’ve f**ked up yet again? Are you getting it yet that the guy who blasted another load on your chest or in your hair last night has no intention of returning the texts you send him, unless it involves an encore performance?
I’m guessing that most women probably aren’t that interested in having any sort of ongoing relationship with a dude who “blasted a load” in their hair on the first date.
Does it dawn on you that maybe what you’re doing isn’t working and maybe you need to try something else? Does it dawn on you that the only things you really got out of last night were a couple of bottles of beer and bragging rights?
And sex, which may have been good or bad. Which is pretty much what the guy got.
It’s 6:45 am on a Sunday morning. You stumble through yet another Walk of Shame across the quad back to your apartment, with your hair and clothes reeking of Aqua Net and stale cigarettes and Old Style and semen.
Like I said: Worst slashfic writer ever.
You pray to God above that you don’t see any of your friends. He smiles on you and today, you are spared the agony of your good friends observing you in all your disheveled, deflowered ignominy. But you see mirror images. You pass by other girls in miniskirts and heels, some of whom lost their bras last night and couldn’t find them. You see other men on their way home, some of whom are hungover, some of whom have little smiles on their faces. You exchange knowing glances with both the men and the women, some of whom you kind of know, others you don’t — but the looks are the same.
“I know what you did last night”.
“I know WHO you did last night.”
Um, no, I’m thinking that most of those who see women walking across the quad on a Sunday don’t actually know who they had sex with, if anyone.
“That sex sucked. But he was hot.”
So again, if a man is crap in bed, women are to blame for not guessing this beforehand?
“I’m never doing this again.”
So as you get home, exhale a breath, disrobe and try to wash the stench from the oddly arousing yet horribly convicting things you did and you allowed another human being to do to you, on you and in you, do you ask:
Is this worth it?
I have a question of my own here: WTF is a “horribly convicting thing?”
Do you have anything more to show for your life than N>10, an STD, recurrent UTIs and probably an abortion in there somewhere?
If you assume that women are defined entirely by the bad casual sex they’ve had, then I guess the answer is “not much.” If you assume that women are actual human beings, like men, free to live the sexual life they want but not defined entirely by it, then I’m guessing the answer is yes.
Manosphere dudes complain (bitterly) when their critics describe them as dudes bitter because they can’t get sex. It’s hard not to describe them as such when they talk about this shit endlessly, and bitterly, on their blogs.
So, who wants to spam Mary with really explicit femdom porn?
Oh dear, he’s having one of those moments again. I hope he has a hankie handy to wipe all the spittle off his keyboard.
NWO, you can be jailed for murder without a body or your “proof.” How do you feel about the fact that most men in jail right now are there for non-violent drug offenses (NOT false rape or any rape accusations)? Oh, right, because they’re men of color, you could give a shit, spare me your bullshit about growing up in the “ghetto.”
everything you write is a lie.
Cassandra, that same idea occured to me as well. It could only be made better if we got to watch the look of horror on her face.
The shock and outrage is funnier than any potential horror. Women screwing men? NO, THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE, IT CANNOT HAPPEN OR MY WHOLE LIFE WILL STOP MAKING SENSE.
Maybe she and Slavey can share their smelling salts with each other. They can bond.
(Could that pun be any more obvious?)
Revenge, Torchwood style. Write a virus that crams their computers full of femdom porn.
Really? I’d have thought that the icon with the begging man in wrist restraints would have clued you in much earlier. Every time he comments I want to say “look, I’m sorry, but I’m not going to cane you no matter how many times you ask, because you’re horrible”.
@ nwoslave- My good god, what strange land is it that you live in where women need only but say the word ‘rape’ and their attacker is immediately thrown in jail for the maximum sentence? Christ, there need to be evidence in sexual assault cases. Where there is no physical evidence, there is testimony. And I have no idea what on earth you think you mean when you call rape a woman’s swiss army knife? If I lost my cork screw, do I just say ‘rape’ at the wine bottle and it opens? Or is this like the old MRA myth of the woman coming in late for work ‘Oops, sorry I’m late you manly bunch of go getters, but I ran into a little bit of rape on my way to work, teehee’.
Ok, I’m going to go out on a limb here and just assume that you’re basing the assumption there are far more men falsely accused of rape than murder entirely on your own prejudices and some shady blog post by some shady dude who shares your prejudices. Because of the 6% of sexual assaults actually reported to the police, about 2% of those are false accusations, according to the Sexual Assault Support |Center in Ottawa. Compare that to the 2.66% rate of false accusations for all other crimes, according to the Ottawa Police. Ottawa and BC are two of the few places who have actually done studies to determine the number of unfounded sexual assault accusations, and they did so mainly because front line sexual assault crisis center workers are having a shitstorm of a time advocating for victims in the current legal system.
Well I am not going to lie and say that the American legal system isn’t a backwards piece of shit when it comes to defining sexual assault, because it is. Though you are definitely misinformed if you believe a woman cannot legally sexually assault a man. What is different is the US makes the distinction between rape and other forms of sexual assault (because in their heteronormative brains the only real sex is penetrative sex?). And as bullshit as that definitely is, you know as well as I do the CDC collects statistics of females sexually assaulting males, and even without controlling for age or under reporting (women tend to under report, men tend to over report), women are still make up the vast majority of victims.
‘The fact is all women are liars’. See, thing about facts is they are, in some way, verifiable. That is just mouth foaming bullshit. You have a hate-on for women. It makes you completely irrational and has probably resulted in innumerable bad life choices on your part. And I hate to psych 101 you here, because it’s kind of like poking through a turd, but I strongly suspect you like to believe all women lie about rape because you haven’t come to terms with your own culpability in a past situation. So, gross, sort that shit out, and fuck right off while you’re at it. Cool? Cool.
@ nepenthe- I think you just made slavey’s brain explode.
NWO wrote: “Yes, but, for other crimes, say murder, there must be a body, proof, ect.”
Oh dear. NWO is not only paranoid, delusional, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and anti-semitic, I think I may now have to add stupid to that list.
Some mrmreddit thread:
You really should warn people before you post things that might cause spits-drink-all-over-keyboard moments.
😀
@timetravelingfool
Score one more point for Epimenides!
Ooooo, NWOSLAVE. I’m going to try an experiment. This will be fun!!
(ahem, cough, cough, clearing throat and conspiratorial wink at David and all others here…)
R. A. P. E. ————-> NWO SLAVE. (that’s me pointing at you.
There! Your life is now totally ruined. The police will show up in seconds to arrest you, no trial will be necessary of course, since I’m a female (yay for femimism!), and you will be thrown in jail FOREVER!!!!
(Oh, btw, in jail you won’t be allowed to use the internet, so I’m afraid you made your last comment here or anywhere.)
BWAHAHAHA¡!!!
Now, let’s see if you’re right. (The suspense is killing me.) (Not really.)
Dude. I don’t want to hurt my girlfriend. When I had a wife, I didn’t want to hurt my wife, and when I had casual sex partners or brief flings, I didn’t want to hurt them, either. A simple “Like that, baby?” every so often did the job just fine. Why do you find it such a bloody imposition to avoid hurting your sex partners?
As long as you’re here, NWO, I’ve been meaning to ask for a while: just what is your story? When you told us about your sister and your niece, some genuine warmth actually shone through. But unless I’ve missed an important thread somewhere, those are the only two relationships with women that we’ve heard about from you. Every other MRA or MGTOW is glad to tell us just when and why they started hating women. What’s your story?
You know how a lot of MRAs/MRA sympathizers don’t value the concept of consent? NWO doesn’t believe in consent. I’m not being hyperbolic; do a search on his comments. NWO truly does not believe in consent and truly does not believe that women have an independent sexuality.
You know how a lot of men fantasize about a woman who loves sex and wants nothing more than to tear their clothes off? His fantasies involve sex slaves who are unwilling.
NWO doesn’t believe in consent. He believes in obligation… maybe acquiescence. But not consent.
This too. ALL the trigger warnings for molestation – I’ve not been raped, but I was coerced into touching someone’s privates for years when I was a little girl. Even at my angriest and most disgusted – when I’d have the most violent thoughts of horrible things happening to my abuser, I didn’t even want to spend time thinking about exacting any sort of revenge (which was very unlike me, as I was a kid with a pretty terribad temper) because it meant having to prolong my thoughts about the abuse, which meant acknowledging that the abuse was real. And my abuser knew how to exploit that as well. Each time, my abuser would promise me that it was the last time, they wouldn’t make me again, they’d leave me alone. And desperate to have them leave me alone, I’d do what they wanted because I didn’t think I could tell anyone – I thought I would get in trouble (which might not have been far from the truth, all things considered) and I just wanted it to STOP already.
They KNEW what they were doing was wrong, that the only reason I let them do it is because they wouldn’t leave me alone, I thought I would get in trouble, etc. Most rapists and molesters know what they are doing is wrong, the problem is when other people call them out on it. They know what they do is wrong, but you can’t call them out on it because then they might look like bad people and that would be terrible!
Given that even years later my abuser (who I do still see, given our relation) has voiced opinions that certain types of people “ask for it” a la short skirts, etc, I’m of a very firm mind that yeah, at least a good portion of the most vehement of apologists are probably apologists because they don’t want to have to accept that they have done horrible things to other people.
Regarding sexual socialism – ick, that’s a horrifying idea. Do the fools who think up these ideas not realize that this means that even if they can get teh secks under the sexual socialism rule, the likelihood that they’ll be able to get to bone the supermodels they think they deserve is STILL very unlikely? Even if the people who think sexual socialism is a good idea don’t give a shit that it means that women will be forced to have sex with men they find unpleasant (gross) it also means that men will probably be paired with women they find less than desirable as well. Can the men then turn them down? Is it that women can’t turn men they are paired up with but men can? Or do both parties have to participate, no matter what? All options are disgusting to even ponder, but I often feel a lot of MRAs don’t seem to understand that not every guy can always be screwing a woman with a supermodel body because that body-type is very rare. I’m not suggesting that they have to lower their standards per se, but I am pretty sure that given that people’s attractions and preferences are so varied, the sexual socialism isn’t such a great idea for them either.
Even assuming the bogus 80/20 theory isn’t just that, bogus, I’m pretty sure mandating that people have sex with people not of their choosing is a recipe for fail.
@ostara321
At the very least, what if people with incompatible sexuality got put together?
“Where’s the penis?” “WHY ARE THERE SO MANY PENISES?!” “You look pretty girly, wear the fake bra and I’ll pretend that you’re actually wearing a strap-on…”
@Creative Writing Student
But gay people don’t have any problem having sex, doncha know? So if you’re gay you become exempt from the system if you present two forms of valid gay picture ID.
Have you read “we”? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_%28novel%29 It was a big inspiration for George Orwell when he wrote 1984, but I like “we” better. In this dystopian future there’s a law that if a person requests that you come to zir apartment and have sex, you must oblige. The purpose of this law is to prevent sexual frustration. And it goes for men and women alike. Everybody just accepts this as they accept everything else in their society.
Anyway, as the story starts our hero has a steady girlfriend, whose simultaneously the girlfriend of his best friend, and they’re all pretty… content with the way things are. It’s very undramatic. And then this dominant revolutionary woman whom he’s simultaneously attracted to, repelled by and scared of drags him into a relationship with her.
“The purpose of this law is to prevent sexual frustration. And it goes for men and women alike. Everybody just accepts this as they accept everything else in their society.”
That’s horrible. Why can’t we just have safe, legal, consenting sex workers take care of frustration? Maybe MRAs should be working to REMOVE the stigma against paying for sex, since it only contributes to their sexual frustration.
Right – that’s not even figuring that duh, there a lots of people out there who aren’t straight. Would the government control for them as well or do they figure gay men or gay women can have as much sex as they want all the time because there isn’t an 80/20 rule?
I’m pretty sure my single gay friends would also be pretty horrified at the idea of being issued a government sex partner.
I’m all for socialization of essentials like food, water, and electricity but even if you think sex is essential to survival (it’s not) the government cannot provide you with OTHER PEOPLE. They’re basically proposing we enact state sanctioned slavery.
@Fembot: Well, if you’re sexually frustrated it WOULD make sense to work against the stigma of sex work, and God forbid that they’d do something that MADE SENSE.
Although I do wonder how big the supply of happy sex workers hypothetically is. I mean, imagine a situation where sex work is legal and there’s no stigma at all. But also imagine that nobody is forced to do it, the way people can be forced to do other jobs. Like, if you’re on unemployment insurance you won’t get your money if you turn down jobs that you’re qualified for but don’t really wanna do. And everyone who wants to legalise sex work seems to agree that you SHOULDN’T be forced to prostitute yourself or else lose your unemployment insurance, the way you can be forced to work at McDonalds or else lose your unemployment insurance – we ought to retain this difference between sex work and other jobs that require no education. So in our imagined utopia, all sex workers do this because they are really perfectly okay with having sex with anyone who asks (well, as long as the person doesn’t seem dangerous), even when they’re totally not attracted to that person.
Now in this happy situation, how many people would be sex workers? I don’t know, maybe there would be a lot, people are different. It’s just that, I used to be a total slut, and I still wouldn’t have sex with people whom I was totally not attracted to. And it seems like most sluts are like that. Maybe there would be enough people willing to do this if it was legal and no stigma attached to satisfy the demand, and maybe there wouldn’t. One can’t just assume that supply would match demand in this imagined utopia.