The so-called manosphere may be a tiny (if noisy) corner of the internet, but here’s yet another reminder that many of its, er, “values” are shared by people other than angry Spearhead commenters and NWOslave. Some of these people even have access to real power. At the Values Voters conference this week, at which Republican VP contender Paul Ryan gave a talk, a group called Modesty Matters distributed flyers whose text reads as if it had been cribbed from posts on The Thinking Housewife or the CoAlpha Brotherhood forum.
As ThinkProgress.org reports:
Modesty Matters criticized women for dressing “immodestly” at church, and blamed women for causing men to stare lustfully at them.
Women must “embrace MODESTY in dress and behavior,” one of the handouts read. Women dressed immodestly in church are “an insult to a holy God,” another said.
Some other choice bits highlighted by ThinkProgress:
From the “Modesty: It’s nothing to be ashamed of” pamphlet: “Since men are particularly visual, immodesty in church can trigger lustful thoughts.”
“My men’s bible study group talks frequently about controlling our lust, thoughts, and eyes. Yes the problem and responsibility are ours, but is it really reasonable for the women of the church to make it THIS difficult for us?”
From the “True Woman Manifesto”: “All women, whether married of single, are to model femininity in their various relationships, by exhibiting a distinctive modesty, responsiveness, and gentleness of spirit.”
Frankly, I don’t think women are completely responsible for all of this terrible immodesty.
Obviously, James Brown deserves part of the blame as well. Here’s footage of him lobbying congress on the controversial “hot pants” issue:
I guess we could just startdropping the babies in…
Oh, and he’s on the hook for scrubbing the toilet and the bath tub, vacumming the couch, picking toys off the floor…
Oh wait I know! Women can just kneel in long skirts! And that will work so well when wiping grape juice that babby just spilt on the floor. And just so we don’t forget ourselves, we can go back to wearing heavily boned corsets, carefully placing heavy padding over top so we look like cylinders and not the sinful hourglass shape.
I’m seriously amazed that it’s possible in the modern world to keep your children so sheltered that they honestly believe that the only women who wear high heeled black boots are sex workers. How do you manage that? Are these kids under the impression that the local Macy’s is den of iniquity that mostly exists to supply footwear to sex workers? Do they walk up to random women in the mall food court and start witnessing because the women are wearing skinny jeans?
What would Jesus do?
Why, walk up to a 17-year-old girl and say: “I want to bang you like a Salvation Army Drum, and afterwards, burn you at the stake for giving me a boner.” Naturally.
Are they dressing their daughters in bloomers and at least three layers of petticoates yet? Sinner men! Forcing their daughters to expose themselves in thin fabrics every time there’s a breeze!
FOR SHAME!!!
The funniest part is that what they probably consider the ultimate in modesty (bloomers, etc) I consider a type of fetishwear.
Cassandra, have you seen the frightened/wary looks on kids who are raised by fundementalists? They are actively taught that sin is contagious and their movements in the larger community are strictly curtailed and chaperoned. Also, homeschooling. The kids do not interact or participate with the larger community unless its grocery night. That’s why its so popular to homeschool, raise your own food, make your own clothes and have bible study three times a week.
I had a menonite family living in the building. Despite the fact that their mother and I had many common interests, that I offered to help her teach her older daughters to sew because she lacked time AND there were many kids in the building to play with, her children were NEVER allowed to interact outside of their own family.
Of course, I’m a single mother, and the day she discovered that, I could see the struggle to not judge and the horror she was trying to conceal. She’s a very kind woman and generally a happy if tired lady. But she couldn’t get over the unease.
I’ve never known any Christian fundamentalists, so this whole thing is very odd to me. Raising kids the way the kids answering that survey seem to have been raised seems like a recipe for lifelong unhappiness. I hope their religious beliefs at least allow therapy, because some of those kids are going to need it.
Oh, they’re aware. Our resident dipshit, NWO has said outright that women should dress like Mennonites.
Feature, not bug.
I’m pretty sure all the suggestions they’d have for women to “dress modestly” would be a preference or fetish for someone somewhere.
Yeah, bloomers as a fetish would blow their minds.
Strange fact… I have no problems with clothing that flaunts my chest. I WILL NOT wear shorts (they always ride up at the thighs)or skirts that aren’t at least ankle length. Fear of sudden breezes I suppose. Well, that and if I’m walking, I’d like to get to my destination in a reasonable time. Too many skirts require shortening my stride. I’m five feet tall, this would mean ambling along at a toddlers pace, minus all the stops to pick every dandilion God placed on earth.
Cassandra, many fundementalist groups do NOT permit therapy. If you’re unhappy, its because you haven’t gotten close enough to God yet. The men should pray on it. The women should ask their fathers or husbands to pray on it and accept with grace and humility whatever answer is told to them. Submitting to Gods will should be a joful experience.
Speaking of the word joy…fundementalists have made a horrible travesty of the word for women. JOY: jesus, others,yourself. JOY has now become synonymous with unending servitude to everyone but yourself. By the time your done meeting the demands of Jesus, your father, your husband, your children, your housework, your community where are you supposed to find a moment for yourself?
It just seems terribly cruel to set these kids up to fail. And unless they happen to be asexual, they will fail. The girls will fail too, because nobody is that self-effacing.
Jayem Griffin: @clairedammit: Is Mexican oregano different than regular oregano? I’ve never heard of it.
Yes, it’s a differet plant species entirely. It’s (quelle surprise) native to Mexico. It’s sharper, a bit more earthy and astringent. It can get fairly bitter, esp. if used too early. It goes well with beans.
CWS: For self-rising flour you need a counterbalancing acid, the most common is cream of tartar. The other option is to use something like buttermilk, and yes, that is a poor ratio.
lowquacks: Marlborough’s actually in NZ! I’ve never heard California wine but I’ve heard it’s much like the stuff here in the climate’s very similar and has the same cheap-but-wonderful thing going on.
Having spent 35 years in Calif., and being fond of wine, I’ve either developed some strong opinions, or the affordable (and good) Australian stuff isn’t making it here. I have the same problems with Chilean wine. I’ve had good stuff, but never for less than $35 a bottle, retail. South African has never managed to impress me.
It’s not that all Calif. wines are good (oh my god, some of the swill I’ve had), but the price/quality ratio is more favorable.
Now that I’m near NYC… wine is all a lot pricier, and the Calif. stuff costs almost what French does, so I’m looking for decent bottles from Spain, and Germany.
I find Washington has some very nice whites, and pretty good sweets, but the reds are a bit on the flabby side.
bionicmommy: If you can find a copy of Kevin Zraley’s “Windows on the World Wine Course” (which may have had the title changed) it’s a great primer on how wines work/are categorised. It helped me immensely when I was learning to drink wine.
It’s all about shaming female sexuality, always has been.
Oh, so you’re comments about poor womens “broods” are complety free of elements shaming women for their sexuality now are they Ruby?
Please explain how that works.
Roscoe: how about this- wtf is the state doing parroting the views of the church? Concerning individual liberty no less? On the subject of personal expression? if that doesn’t strike you as odd, you have an agenda to push.
Lowquacks: There’s something similar in US Army guidelines for soldiers carrying messenger-type bags (possibly even in civilian life). Why it’s considered less appropriate I’m not sure – the US Army guidelines I remember were gender-neutral and probably mostly for men, so there’s not even the boob thing to fall back on.
That’s AR 670-1
If by “witnessing,” he means masturbating.
I’m sorry, but I REMEMBER being 17 and at that age, everything is a temptation. What a horribly fucked up thing to do to take a perfectly natural instinct toward pair bonding and turn it into such loathing of self and others. It’s just sick.
And what soldiers wear off-duty, off-post, is their own affair. On post there is some leeway on the part of a commander to limit it, but in practical terms, off-duty is one’s own time, and (mostly) one can do what one likes, certainly in regards to clothing.
@Roscoe:
Is such the fast that I have chosen? the day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? Wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the fetters of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
In other words, God has higher priorities than your sanctimonious bullshit, and so do I.
You know Ruby, people (or at least I) would stop calling bullshit every time you opened your mouth if you ever actually showed that you were at least THINKING about why we consider your oneliners problematic.
I just logged on to talk about the book cover. Do you think she looks so horrified because that bull is actually snorting a whole carrot out of its nostril? Because that kind of freaked ME out.
I remember many years ago when I was a teenager, I was at a summer church retreat. I was already an atheist at that point; my fairly liberal church didn’t seem to care, but the retreat consisted of groups of kids from a bunch of different churches with fairly different attitudes. There was a very attractive girl from another church there. I don’t recall if she dressed particularly modestly (probably not; it was summer), but I do recall that she touched me constantly while talking to me. She also said at one point that she would only ever date a Christian. I think she may have been the greatest challenge my lack of faith ever confronted.
@M Dubz
In the wise words of Xander Harris: “I’m seventeen. Looking at linoleum makes me think about sex.”
So about that book cover, what did the Castilian matador do that was so immodest?
I’ve heard this line of reasoning from Christian fundamentalists before, in my teen years in Arizona. I won’t just point at them – since moving back to NYC I’ve occasionally heard similar things from members of Hasidic or Muslim communities.
But I don’t feel beholden to dress for any organized religion, particularly since I’m not in any of those. I’m mainly here for the James Brown.