The so-called manosphere may be a tiny (if noisy) corner of the internet, but here’s yet another reminder that many of its, er, “values” are shared by people other than angry Spearhead commenters and NWOslave. Some of these people even have access to real power. At the Values Voters conference this week, at which Republican VP contender Paul Ryan gave a talk, a group called Modesty Matters distributed flyers whose text reads as if it had been cribbed from posts on The Thinking Housewife or the CoAlpha Brotherhood forum.
As ThinkProgress.org reports:
Modesty Matters criticized women for dressing “immodestly” at church, and blamed women for causing men to stare lustfully at them.
Women must “embrace MODESTY in dress and behavior,” one of the handouts read. Women dressed immodestly in church are “an insult to a holy God,” another said.
Some other choice bits highlighted by ThinkProgress:
From the “Modesty: It’s nothing to be ashamed of” pamphlet: “Since men are particularly visual, immodesty in church can trigger lustful thoughts.”
“My men’s bible study group talks frequently about controlling our lust, thoughts, and eyes. Yes the problem and responsibility are ours, but is it really reasonable for the women of the church to make it THIS difficult for us?”
From the “True Woman Manifesto”: “All women, whether married of single, are to model femininity in their various relationships, by exhibiting a distinctive modesty, responsiveness, and gentleness of spirit.”
Frankly, I don’t think women are completely responsible for all of this terrible immodesty.
Obviously, James Brown deserves part of the blame as well. Here’s footage of him lobbying congress on the controversial “hot pants” issue:
It says halter-top bras are a stumbling block. But what if you’re wearing a halter bra under a halter top, so nothing shows? I suppose it’s moot, as no doubt halter tops are also a stumbling block.
In other news I poured myself far too large a glass of wine and now I am going to pour out half of it because I’m sleepy and it is ridiculous to stay up in order to drink only-ok wine.
Yeah, like, why don’t they just cut to the chase and say that women merely existing leads men to stumble?
I loved this one too.
Ballet is super immodest.
Also…
If women don’t have the decency to be invisible can’t they at least be completely silent?
I always think of the modesty survey as “The survey that proved that many teenage boys are attracted to teenage girls.”
Write-in question: “How do you feel about girls who purposely flaunt their bodies?”
Answer from a 23 year old*: “It is hard for me to respect them. I love them, and pray that God might save them, if they are lost, and sanctify those whom He has called, but I do have a sense of dislike toward them because of how hard they make life for me. Our lives are to be lived in a way that glorifies God, that is in no way glorifying Him or making me better able to glorify Him.”
Translation: Um, I kind of hate them a little bit? They’re not helping me be a better Christian, and I’m pretty sure women I’ve never met before are supposed to be devoted to helping me.
*I am sad that he was the same age I am now
@Jayem
Thanks! I’d been looking for that for a while.
My sister and I had great fun brainstorming a list of ways in which men could be stumbling blocks when we first found this. No rolled-up sleeves for a start, draws attention to your forearms. No chinos, because dick bulge, but no tight jeans either, because butt. T-shirts are right out, so it’s buttoned shirts only, but no ties, ’cause that’s just showing off. Jackets should not have shoulder padding, and knitwear should avoid v-necks which empathise the male form. No sitting in seductive confident poses. We came up with loads, but those were the first that came to mind
I just keep imagining the poor girls who have to be around these guys being terrified to move, or even breathe, because apparently movement is a stumbling block. Only statues are modest (as long as they’re wearing a loose gown that covers them to the wrists, neck, and ankles).
Apparently sports bras should be worn at all times.
@ lowquacks
The thing is, if you happen to be a guy who’s my type, seeing you is a “stumbling block” for me regardless of how you’re dressed, how you move, etc. So basically I guess attractive people should remain in fully screened isolation tanks at all times? They can’t talk either, because sexy voices are a stumbling block.
(This whole problem could easily be solved by accepting the fact that most people have sexual feelings and are attracted to people and that’s OK, but I guess that would be too easy.)
Obviously these young women are deliberately wobbling their boobs as they walk to tempt young Christians. You know, with their boob muscles.
@CassandraSays
Well, yeah, basically. But it was enlightening to think of men in the way we’re taught to think about women.
Actually this is the most depressing write-in answer.
You can be a Godly thing, or an ungodly, thing, but never forget that you are a thing, not a person.
About the only way I can make my chest not bounce when walking is to full-out bind. So I’m not a stumbling block when I do that, but I’m probably still hell-bound.
Also:
This one has some priceless responses, including
from a man in his early thirties. Anyone else catch a hint of something a bit off about the adults’ responses (in general)?
@Jayem
There’s something similar in US Army guidelines for soldiers carrying messenger-type bags (possibly even in civilian life). Why it’s considered less appropriate I’m not sure – the US Army guidelines I remember were gender-neutral and probably mostly for men, so there’s not even the boob thing to fall back on.
The thing is, re:bags, that cleavage is also out. Ditto not wearing a bra, and probably binding. So: don’t separate your breasts, don’t push them together, don’t push them up, certainly don’t let them hang free, don’t wrap them down.
It’s times like this when you begin to think it’s not the boobs that are the problem.
And that’s the same sort of reasoning that some have for thinking that jeans….. well, pants of any kind, actually…… are immodest. They separate the legs and draw attention to that — **gasp!** — “V area”
I just keep wanting to point out to these guys that self-control is not something that can be outsourced.
The one that weirded me out the most was how many guys said that removing a pullover is a stumbling block.
Jareth would totally fail your test.
Favorite typo.
“Please be modest as best as you can. Sexual purity is so very important to me and a lot of other guys. It helps to not be tempted with lustful thoughts if girls wear cloths that cover their body appropriately. I respect and love girls that are modest so much more than those who do not.”
Ladies, please be sure to cover your bodies in many cloths. Just don’t make any rapid movements, in case some of the cloths fall off.
@katz
I don’t think that would be his only failure there.
What if a guy jacked off thinking about a girl’s face? WHAT IF HE THOUGHT ABOUT GIVING HER A FACIAL!?
@wordsp1nner
Is getting all hot and sweaty a stumbling block too, though? Surely it is.
Clearly, the modest woman takes out a pair of scissors and cuts off any pullover jumpers.