Over on Married Man Sex Life, doucheblogger Athol Kay has provided the ladies with a helpful checklist of the things they need to do, or to be, or to do be do be do, to become the ultimate “red pill” girlfriend or wife. But the women he describes sound a lot less like Trinity from The Matrix than the robotified housewives from The Stepford Wives.
Mr. Kay’s list of demands is too long to quote in its entirety, but here are a few of the choicer items:
(4) Understands that there is a sexual marketplace, and that women have an earlier peak of sexual desirability than men do.
Presumably if she forgets this, her manospherian swain will happily neg her back to a properly less-positive assessment of her rapidly decaying beauty as a woman over the age of 14.
(13) Understands that divorce sucks and is more akin to getting treatment for cancer than having cosmetic surgery.
I sort of agree with this one, actually: for women married to Athol Kay’s followers, getting divorced would be a lot like removing a malignant tumor.
(14) Likes men in a general sense for who they are and what they do, rather than detesting all men in general and making an exception for the tiny few in her nuclear family.
(Huh. Project much?)
(15) Understands the risks both men and women take in having serious relationships, and is willing to negotiate ways to verify trustworthiness in each other. Sees doing this as evidence of true commitment rather than an insulting invasion of privacy.
I have no fucking idea what he’s talking about here. Lie detector tests? Waterboarding?
(20) Doesn’t keep the Red Pill a secret from those that need it.
That’s what we need, more women lecturing women on how terrible they are.
I’ve saved the best for last:
(3) Understands that what she does with her vagina always has some sort of consequence.
Seriously. Please think twice before tattooing Homer Simpson on you hoo-hah! (This has actually been done. You’ll have to look up the pictures yourself.)
In the comments, BlackCat adds a 21st item to the list:
(21) Understands that current society/public opinion, the vast majority of churches, and almost all laws, courts and government agencies dealing with families are all biased heavily against men, and that until the incentives and disincentives return to a more balanced state, men are completely justified in being gun-shy and avoiding commitment and other entanglements as much as possible.
Corollary to (21): Appreciates the men, especially informed (red pill) men, who are willing to take the chance at a relationship despite the above, and goes out of her way to prevent them from being taken advantage of, and to publicly denounce those who do take advantage of them.
So come on, gals, start lining up for your chance to jump through endless hoops for the chance to get with a dude who thinks he’s doing you a gigantic favor by even considering dating you in the first place!
While we’re at it, here’s my favorite scene from The Stepford Wives (the original 1975 version, of course), in which [SPOILER ALERT] Joanna, the new gal in Stepford, discovers that her friend Bobbie is no longer the free-spirited Women’s Libber she thought she knew.
If you’re speaking from firsthand experience, Unimaginative, then I am sorry you have experienced that injustice. However, it is delusional to assume this is the general rule when, during cases such as the Duke Lacrosse and the Strauss-Kahn scandals, politically motivated individuals actually stacked the burden of evidence against the accused rather than the accusers.
That being said, I think focusing your aggression and hatred against me serves more a therapeutic purpose than a political one. I suggest you remain mindful of this and take care to associate such statements with yourself rather than your cause next time.
In before IR mentions Assange.
However, it is delusional to assume this is the general rule when, during cases such as the Duke Lacrosse and the Strauss-Kahn scandals, politically motivated individuals actually stacked the burden of evidence against the accused rather than the accusers.
Um, the men in both of those cases were cleared before they were even brought to trial. Even though Strauss-Kahn was almost certainly guilty. I’m not seeing an epidemic of innocent men being thrown behind bars here.
Hmm. You have 2 cases that hit the news, only one of which appears to be clearly a false allegation, and both of which involved people in fairly extreme positions of power (athletes at a US university and the probably next head of the IMF).
On the other hand, only 6% of rapes are reported to police. http://www.sexassault.ca/statistics.htm
Yes, I’m sure I’m the one who’s delusional.
True, after evidence was presented that the rape did not occur. In both cases, the individuals’ reputations were tarnished by armchair activists and a sensationalist media.
@aworldanonymous- Here’s another introvert-y, not really interested in drinking-y kid who had a marvelous time in college, even as the “square one” in a group of rather libertine friends. I don’t have much to add in advice beyond what the other commenters have already said, I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus. You are not alone in your introversion. You are not alone in your desire to not get shitfaced.
It is sooooooo hard when you are in a new place, by yourself, trying to meet new people and navigate living on your own for the first time. It’s really scary; I remember. Especially if you are more introverted/quiet/were not popular in high school and you are worried that you will not make any friends. But this is part of becoming an adult. You will find your tribe of IRL friends. And your internet friends will be here cheering you on.
You can totally do it! I have faith in you and your abilities!
Also, @ideologuereview, I’d be more inclined to believe your story if you could clearly demonstrate how the members of the Duke Lacrosse team are now having difficulty finding paid work as a result of their “tarnished reputations.”
The site also mentions the debunked “1 in 4” myth. According to the survey, 4 in 10 so-called rape victims stayed with the partner, which is not unreasonable when you consider that the survey considered a couple drinking wine and then having sex a “rape”.
Okay, reeeeeally long post, mostly talking to Aworldanonymous about college and stuff:
@Shaenon – “My favorite is #18, “Has a sense of humor.”
Because you’d need one.”
But remember, you don’t get to make any jokes. Because we all know women aren’t funny.
@Nepenthe – “Like MRA and PUA (always try to type “pus” instead) forums?”
Pus would be the most appropriate name for this lot!
@Aworldanonymous – I’m putting my hand up as another person who doesn’t like drinking. I used to have the odd glass of Spatlese Lexia at parties twenty years ago (and we’re talking two or three a year, at most, among thirty-somethinngs), but I’ve never been drunk and these days I’ve no taste for alcohol, much less its effects, at all. Hang in there. You’re not weird or unusual or anything of the sort. I’ve never lived in dorms and as another introverted person I shudder at the thought of doing so, but take courage from everyone here who has and stick to the idea that it will get better.
And echoing what ShadetheDruid said about the Internet – yeah, not the same as face to face interaction but it can lead to it. I’m on a writing site and met my three dearest friends there. Unfortunately they’re in the US and I’m in Australia so we only get to meet up every few years, but my feeling on this is that you might find friends the same way – via sites you’re interested in, and maybe in your area. I don’t mean deliberately looking for friends that way – I get the heebiejeebies thinking about trying that, and it smacks of desperate dating – just through the serendipity of doing stuff you enjoy. Same for physical-space clubs or societies – does your college have groups for stuff you might like to do?
Anyway, take heart. It will get better, just getting older makes it better. (Whoever dubbed childhood/teens the best years of our lives must have had a really sucky adulthood, that’s all I can say)
Cyber hugs if you’d like ’em … complete with cyber kitty furs. ::brushes ineffectively at top::
Didn’t one troll say that people with good senses of humor don’t make jokes?
I didn’t see it, Katz, but that wouldn’t surprise me at ALL.
Funny, there was an article interviewing several women comedians in the paper today, and I kept thinking about all the MRM maroons and sundry idiots (a la Maher and Hitchens*) who do the “only doodz are funny” crap.
*idiots on this topic at least
@Twomoogles: This is something that really bugs me about this culture’s view on women. The ideal woman is supposed to be
a) conventionally super hot
b) have no clue whatsoever that she is conventionally super hot, and be honestly surprised and find it hard to believe every time a man tells her that she’s beautiful
c) put no effort whatsoever into being conventionally super hot. She should eat whatever she likes, not exercise (at least not a lot), absolutely NOT use plastic surgery, little to no make-up etc, and STILL be conventionally super hot.
We see this ideal perpetrated over and over again in movies, magazines, books etc. It would be bad enough if women were merely told how important it is to look conventionally hot, but in addition, we’re shamed if we try too hard to achieve this state, and shamed if we reach the goal and realises that we have done so.
You forgot shamed if she’s hot and doesn’t acknowledge that it makes her the most privileged person in the entire world and render any of the ways in which women might normally be considered not-privileged null and void.
(I still remember during one of the last gamer dude freakouts when one of them angrily proclaimed that the most privileged person in the world is a hot Asian girl. I loled.)
@Fembot: “Relationships are not supposed to be work. You shouldn’t have to start drinking at noon in order to be able to cope with your spouse (I have a friend who does this). The people who say “marriage is hard work” or “marriage is a struggle” probably married the wrong person. You wouldn’t keep hanging out with your friends if they made you miserable every day. And your spouse should also be your friend, not just the person you sleep with.”
THIS. SO. MUCH:
I think that when a relationship requires lots of work and compromise, you’re probably with the wrong person and would be happier without zir. It’s happened some times over the years that when I have expressed that attitude over the internet somebody goes “Oh, so you’re single then? That’s an impossible attitude if you want a long-term committed relationship!”.
Er, no. I’m not single. I’m happily married since eleven years. I just married the right person. We’re two people who really understand each other, love each other and are happy being together. That’s it.
@Cassandrasays: Well, this seems to be one point where the MRA sort of diverge from mainstream sexism, rather than just exaggerating it. I think that mainstream society rather values hot girls who have no idea that they’re hot. In movies, books etc a hot girl who KNOWS she’s hot is always an evil bitch, while the heroine or good girl is super hot but honestly thinks she’s nothing special. This often gets hilarious if somebody writes a text in the first person… The author must let the heroine explain what she looks like in a way that simultaneously makes it clear to the audience that she’s super hot while conveying insecurity about her own looks.
Many MRA on the other hand seem to think that hot women should rather go “The world worships me for my hotness and I’M SO SORRY FOR THAT”.
It’s not just MRAs, though. A lot of male geeks seem to share that idea that hot women who are the most privileged people alive. And yeah, super hot women are in some ways privileged in comparison to other women, but that doesn’t make sexism or racism just magically vanish.
Basically the thought process seems to be I want to fuck her and she’s allowed to say no therefore obviously she has more privilege than me, which is unfair.
@Dvarghunspossen – the irony of the heroine-who’s-hot-but-doesn’t-know-it is that it is so reflective of what happens to so many women, the whole “you’re not good enough/pretty enough/hot enough” message. And that’s before we get to the vast majority of us who aren’t supermodels (and they’re far from immune, of course).
Personal tale: I am not conventionally pretty, never was, and it wasn’t until my forties and the Very. Clear. Message. from my beloved, by word and deed, that I am beautiful to him, that I learned to be happy with my body, my middle aged, caving-in-to-gravity, not-thin body. Yes, it’s still forming an opinion based on someone else’s, but internalising the “you are beautiful because you are YOU” message is a hell of a lot better than taking on most of the ones society sends to women of any age.
@aworldanon
Seconding everyone else’s suggestion that you look into clubs and such. And this is a bit specific to my own social quirks, so it may or may not be helpful advice for you, but what really helped my immensely when I was in a lousy place socially was my university’s board gaming club. I tried out a handful of geeky sorts of clubs at the time, and while I enjoyed them, I found for the most part I wasn’t really making friends. A combination of being really introverted, shy, and not being able to read social cues well meant that in big groups I’d tend to just stay quiet and fade into the background. The big difference the board gaming made is that the socializing was more structured; you’d sit down with somewhere around 2-5 other people for an hour or two, and you have to interact to some degree to play, which makes it easier to break further out of your shell.
Again, this doesn’t help that much unless you’ve got similar hurdles to socializing, but I thought I’d share just in case it does. A roleplaying group is good in much the same ways too, but it can be trickier to find one that wants new players at the time and is willing to walk someone through the basics.
@Cassandrasays: Maybe it’s because they believe that those beautiful but insecure-about-their-looks women we see in literature and on movies don’t exist in real life? So the next best thing would be a woman who knows she’s beautiful but keeps apologising for it?
@Kitten: Well… I get that many conventionally attractive people are insecure. I find that a bit odd though. Like, you know roughly what society’s ideal is, and you know what you look like. If these pictures match up, shouldn’t you be able to SEE that?
I’m pretty conventionally attractive, but I always knew that was the case (which doesn’t mean I haven’t been terribly insecure – but that was due to my mental illness, not my looks). Doesn’t mean I go around bragging about my looks either, I just don’t participate in any “Oh I’m so fat”, “no you’re fine, but I’m fat and have a huge nose” etc interactions with other women.
Well, with my husband I have this in-joke that if I mess up at something or say something stupid, he’ll go “Well, thank God that at least you’re hot!”, or I’ll go “Well, I was a bit unlucky with my thinking today, but at least I’m hot!”. But in public I just don’t say anything at all about what I look like.
When I was younger however, I WOULD chime in if I was in a group of women who complained about their looks, just to feel normal and feel like I belonged… And I would feign total and utter surprise if some guy gave me a compliment. Then I grew older and realised that this pretence was stupid. Better to just not discuss one’s own looks at all with other people, and just go “thanks!” for a compliment. But I wonder if my case is unique? Or if there are other women who know perfectly well that they’re conventionally attractive but just feel pressured to SAY that they feel oh-so-ugly?
I’ve observed that if you don’t join in the “oh I’m so ugly, here is a list of my flaws” talk then people often assume that you’re hugely conceited. I’ve participated in the putting yourself down as bonding crap in the past, and I really try not to do it any more, but there’s a lot of social pressure to do it because if you don’t people often take it as arrogance, and if you try to just ignore people’s statements when they put themselves down and not get drawn into those conversations then sometimes they interpret silence as you agreeing that they really are ugly.
And then I’ve known a few people who like to talk about how hot they are who I don’t actually consider particularly attractive. Given that none of the super conventionally attractive women who I’ve known have ever done that, I think that there is a pretty strong social mechanism in place stating that if you’re a woman and you know you’re attractive you better not ever say so.
Re “hot privilege”: There are psychological studies that show that if people perceive somebody as beautiful, they also tend to perceive them as being intelligent and having loads of other positive qualities. So in that way, people of BOTH genders who are deemed beautiful by lots of other people would be privileged in many types of situations. But yeah, that’s not what idiots mean when they go “hot Asian girls are the mots privileged group!”.
Yeah, and in a way the whole “alpha” thing is an acknowledgement of the fact that hot men have social privilege as a result of being hot the same way hot women do, but if you’ve ever tried to point out that attractiveness is a privilege for men just like it is for women, or that it’s perfectly natural and not a sign of women’s innate evil for most women to go for men who are fairly conventionally attractive, in a (virtual) room full of angry dudes, then you know how well that tends to go. All of the “no, women don’t care about looks, they care about some undefined other thing that makes men alpha and so I can make myself alpha by following this script” is basically magical thinking designed to try to get around the acknowledgement that beauty gives men social power just like it gives women social power.
@Cassandra: I think that if a woman who’s, say, obese, or in some other way don’t conform to society’s standards, says she’s hot or beautiful, then she’ll be hated on by lots of people but also cheered on by many. There are quite a lot of people who’ll think she’s cool and tough for standing up against society’s narrow ideals, by claiming herself to be hot. If a super model would say that she thought she was oh so hot, she would probably face a more universal “stuck up bitch!” reaction.
Just watch what happens any time, say, an actress acknowledges that she knows she’s attractive.
But yeah, the politics of the way people talk about beauty annoys me from pretty much every angle. The system is designed to pit women against each other.
This is so fucking true. I (cis female) have never had very many female friends because there’s always this social undercurrent and competition that I don’t understand, like, or have time for. I’ve always liked situations where I can just be one of the guys. The few female friends I’ve had were also of this mindset. It’s sad that I don’t want to be friends with a large portion of my gender, but the silent politicking and pecking order crap is way more energy than I’m willing to invest.