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a voice for men antifeminism antifeminst women cuteness drama kings evil women false accusations FemRAs grandiosity johntheother kitties men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA narcissism paranoia paul elam rape rape jokes shit that never happened the poster revolution has begun

Posters getting torn down: A crime against humanity? (Includes video footage of JohnTheOther’s epic confrontation with alleged box-cutter wielding gang.)

Farting kittens: The real oppressors?

So I’ve been mostly avoiding writing about the whole Men’s Rights postering controversy in Vancouver, because it’s such a tempest in a teapot. The tl;dr: Some posters got torn down, and some of the people tearing them down yelled at the blabby MRA videoblogger and A Voice for Men second fiddle known as JohnTheOther.

MRAs: Given that virtually none of you have any experience as actual real world activists, you may not be aware of this, but POSTERS GET TORN DOWN. It’s annoying, and I don’t support it myself, but it happens all the time. Sometimes, you may actually run across people tearing down your posters, at which point there is usually some sort of awkward confrontation that may include yelling.

You know what you do when this happens? You put your posters up again. You know what you don’t do? Compare the experience to rape. Because, on the list of the grand injustices of the world, having posters torn down is pretty far down the list, somewhere around “stubbing your toe” and “kitten farts on you.”

That said, here are a few new “developments” in this ongoing epic.

1) Jezebel has posted a piece about the controversy. The most interesting thing about it is the following quote from, you guessed it, JohnTheOther, who apparently had this to say to someone from a local “community-driven news” website. The topic? False accusations of rape.

Maybe it’s a mistaken accusation, she doesn’t remember who she had sex with because she was drunk at the party or whatever. Some make accusations that have nothing to do with being raped; they’re angry, or they got stood up, they wanted to have sex with a guy but he said no. The fact that our society doesn’t have a balance for this is a major problem. I’m not suggesting every woman you meet is a loose cannon, but every woman you meet has the potential to be one, because for those few who are nutty, there’s no disincentive for them to go, oh, I was late for work. I know, I’ll just say I got raped.

Now, if the Men’s Rights movement were an actual civil rights movement trying to better the lives of men, this quote would be a public relations disaster. What real civil rights movement would want to have itself associated with someone who seems to think that women make up rape accusations willy nilly, when a date stands them up or when they need an excuse for being late to work?

Of course, the Men’s Rights “movement” isn’t an actual civil rights movement at all; it’s more like a collective tantrum. While MRAs are eager to “spread the word,” the more spreading they do, the more damage they do to themselves. No one is better at making MRAs look bad than MRAs themselves, which is why on this blog I spend so much of the time letting these (mostly) dudes make themselves look ridiculous with their own words. So, JtO, thanks?

2) And speaking of Mr. TheOther, we can now see video footage of the supposed dramatic confrontation that JohnTheOther had with what his AVFM boss Paul Elam called “a gang of 20-30 assholes on the street, some wielding box cutters.”

GirlWritesWhat, one of the Men’s Rights movement’s few non-dudes, has put up selections of video footage from Mr. TheOther in her video below.

As you’ll see – unless for some reason GWW has decided not to post the most incriminating parts of the video — there was no gang; it was a small group of people. No one was “wielding box cutters” in a threatening manner. The whole thing took place in broad daylight on a busy street.

Some posters were taken down. There were some raised voices. That’s it. That’s the sort of shit activists deal with every fucking day of their life.

Here’s the video:

Am I missing something here? This non-event is the alleged confrontation that AVFM has been hyperventilating about all this time? This is the evil anti-MRA harassment that Elam says “makes getting bestially raped by Richard Dawkins sound kinda funny.”

Leave it to Mr. Elam to add a rape-joke cherry to this bullshit sundae. Once again, MRAs are their own worst enemies.

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Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Well, I stand corrected.

Now, apart from helping to deny DV protections to gay men, what has the ncfm actually done?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago
Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

It would appear that Doyle has started numerous groups in various media so like minded people can have space to agree with each other on certain issues, OK. I don’t see the actual activism, though. He wants men to be fairly represented in court — OK. But what did he do, aside from complain about it openly?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

They also criticized Rihanna for talking to the police. And their only successful court case to date was the sueing of a strip club for offering free cover to women on ladies’ night. http://ncfm.org/2011/01/uncategorized/ncfms-huge-landmark-sex-discrimination-case-now-final/

Truly they are addressing the issues of our times,

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

http://standyourground.com/forums/index.php?topic=16635.0 – this, for a good keeping-going. How found: NCFM website -> about -> advisors, picked a name (Marc Angelucci), googled for MRA Marc Angelucci. There.

Gametime
8 years ago

“Because a single terrible person retaining their job is definitely an example of systemic injustice.”

No, the *system* patting her on the shoulder for that is.

“I don’t know anything about the Sharon Osbourne thing…”

That is very consistent with systemic misandry being real.

Oh word, you can tell that systemic misandry is a thing because everyone congratulated Sharon Osbourne and also because no one has ever heard of Sharon Osbourne. That definitely makes sense and isn’t at all contradictory.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Haha you might want to look into that court case a little bit.

Here are some highlights:
http://www.futureswithoutviolence.org/content/features/detail/897/

“The Justices noted that they have no evidence that any state programs do not currently offer services to men”

“It says in a statement: “Since the majority of domestic violence victims seeking services are women who have been abused by men, the presence of men in shelter facilities could pose yet another barrier to victims obtaining the help they need. CPEDV is pleased that the Court chose to uphold shelters’ rights to protect the privacy and safety of their residents.”

“In many ways, this ruling is an affirmation of what violence prevention and victim services programs in California and across the country already do,” said Family Violence Prevention Fund President Esta Soler. “We work to stop domestic and sexual violence in all its forms, and serve all the victims who need help. But there is no question that women are the majority of victims who need services.”

Essentially, what happened was the ncfm launched a court case arguing that men should also receive domestic violence services. The justices agreed. Because men already received domestic violence services, no policy changes were made.

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

A quick walk over to NCFM’s site shows them…engaging in shitty rapist apologetics for Akin. And a bunch of other supremely offensive stuff.

Still a hate group, Basta.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Also, how do you feel about the NCFM explicitly supporting the GOP’s decision to deny domestic violence services to gay men?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Also, if the only productive thing you can dig up about your entire movement was a lawsuit that resulted in no policy changes whatsoever 4 years ago, and everything else is just hateful bullshit, you might want to re-evaluate some life choices.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Yeah, NCFM is fucked. They’re in love with all the misogynist hits; women are responsible for breaking up the fabric of scociety because they’re allowed to divorce. They seem to think women have complete reproductive freedom without any interference from state laws…and of course, the rights of men have been downgraded, making them second class citizens. And blah blah blah……whiney whine, legalize rape so there are zero incidents of false accusations. Blargitty blah. Shit. Bored now.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

this, for a good keeping-going. How found: NCFM website -> about -> advisors, picked a name (Marc Angelucci), googled for MRA Marc Angelucci. There.

I love how BASTA thinks we have some kind of an obligation to do Google research to find out more about his hate group. Like, the second a group starts defending child abusers, I feel pretty okay about writing them off as hateful idiots.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

Quibble, because I’m a bit anal about this sort of crap.

Summers still lost his job

Summers probably resigned because he lost Harvard a billion (with a b!) dollars in an investment gamble. It had nothing to do with his sexist (and racist) comments. Harvard still paid him for doing nothing for another year (he went on “sabbatical”) and was subsequently made a professor.

Men being barely held responsible for their actions? Misandry!

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Oh goody, another round of MRA Show & Tell: Horrible Things People Say About Men, Edition #4235266.

You know, we’d probably listen to you more if your “movement” didn’t say worse things about men on a daily basis (and that’s not even getting into the things they say about everyone else).

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

Things I’m not anal about: closing blockquote tags.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

Speaking of people who didn’t lose their jobs, did you know that Mike Tyson has gone on to have a successful career in film after being convicted, not merely accused, of rape? As in, he actually served time. In prison. For raping someone. And public opinion still finds him a funny guy and not a pariah.

But your “civil rights” organization officially believes that the victims of crimes should be the ones put on trial, lest the people who violated them be inconvenienced. Compassion: yer doin it rong.

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

> Oh word, you can tell that systemic misandry is a thing
> because everyone congratulated Sharon Osbourne
> and also because no one has ever heard of Sharon
> Osbourne. That definitely makes sense and isn’t at all
> contradictory.

I said “system”, not “everyone” – a vast difference. And I said “patted her on the shoulder”, not “congratulated” – a more subtle difference but still. The system quietly patted Osbourne on the shoulder and did its best to keep the shit under the rug, which is why it is possible for Shiraz to not have even heard about the whole thing.

> Like, the second a group starts defending child abusers,
> I feel pretty okay about writing them off as hateful idiots.

I’m still going through the links you guys provided for actual evidence that everything the individual named Tom Martin writes is automatically NCFM’s position. Is Tom Martin apparently a malicious idiot? Yes, based on just one quote, no need for Manboobz filter to say that. Should NCFM throw him out, repudiate him, and expunge all his writings from their website? That depends, among other things, on whether academic feminists are ready to expunge all of Solanas, Daly, etc. from gender studies curricula.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Oh, PASTA!, do you not understand the difference between studying something and endorsing it? Like, if I am interested in studying 20th Century German history, the curricula is for shit sure going to include stuff about actual Nazis. In fact, I am right now involved in preserving some primary source materials generated by Nazis before and during WW2. Does that make me a Nazi?

You are really an idiot if you don’t understand the difference between academia and advocacy organizations. Just amazingly dumb.

MertvayaRuka
8 years ago

“@DeadHand: thanks for Godwinning yourself to the gutter.”

You do realize that Godwin’s law does not state “First person to bring up the Nazis loses the argument” right? I stand by the comparison. The entire reasoning behind the MRA movement echoes the Dolchstoßlegende. There’s this pervasive myth that men didn’t *lose* their rightful status as the rulers and directors of society but rather they were cheated out of it, betrayed by “manginas” and “white knights”, victimized by conniving and evil women out to humiliate and debase them. You talk about traitors who need to be rooted out and dealt with. You praise acts of violence and hint that it’s only the beginning if you don’t get your way. You speak of working to improve the lot of your fellows but the only work you excel at is spreading fear, hatred and lies. You speak of a future when you’re once again ascendant, in charge, as it was before and as it was meant to be. It’s the same shit in a different bag. You authoritarian-minded folks are pretty much constitutionally incapable of coming up with an original idea for your movements because it always comes back to the same themes: we’ve been betrayed, our birthright was stolen and anyone who disagrees with us is not just wrong but evil and they must be dealt with as harshly as possible. Now I’m sure that you’re going to take that and try to twist it around like you did with the whole “you don’t get to define what a civil rights movement is, we do” bullshit but anyone who’s taken a good long look at authoritarian groups will see both the parallels and the usual attempts at projecting their worst behaviors onto others.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Err, Solans never called herself a feminist.

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

> Speaking of people who didn’t lose their jobs, did you
> know that Mike Tyson has gone on to have a successful
> career in film after being convicted, not merely accused,
> of rape? As in, he actually served time.

Ah shit. I hoped you would omit that last tiny detail and make a complete idiot of yourself. Instead you only reached the level of imbecile by completely overlooking the importance of that fact. Yes, in Mike Tyson’s case the punishment was actually dealt, and we seem to have this philosophy that when you serve your term, you are clear and deserve a new start as much as anyone else. Or do we not? Is the judge only kidding when (s)he says “6 years incarceration”, and what (s)he really means is “6 years incarceration and lifetime of ostracism”?

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Oh by the by, I don’t watch shows where people try to out sing one another, or talk shows. Also, I don’t read tabloids. I’m thinking I didn’t know about Sharon-gate *snicker* because my TV watching habits lead me to premium cable on most days…not a massive conspiracy or cover-up.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Should NCFM throw him out, repudiate him, and expunge all his writings from their website?

I’d take them saying “he was wrong.” That’s what most feminists say about nonfeminist crazy people like Solanas.

However, that’s not the only child abuse ncfm glorify: http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fncfm.org%2F2012%2F09%2Factivities%2Fncfm-member-elijah-ward-on-family-court-corruption-thomas-ball-the-committee-on-redress-of-grievances-a-serial-how-we-began%2F&ei=Y2xTUO28AYjYywH_zIHgDw&usg=AFQjCNH4tS-eOn4gJAxDtVdWtuvjS7fz0A

A defense of admitted child abuser Thomas Ball.

I’m still waiting on your thoughts about the NCFM supporting the removal of gay men’s domestic violence protections.

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

> You are really an idiot if you don’t understand the
> difference between academia and advocacy organizations.

I understand exactly where that difference is present within the academia and where it is not. In particular, academic feminism *is* pure advocacy.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

PASTA, are your noodly arms tired from all the goalpost moving you’re doing?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

I understand exactly where that difference is present within the academia and where it is not. In particular, academic feminism *is* pure advocacy.

Haha find me a curriculum where solanas is advocated.

Still waiting on why you think denying DV services to gay men is part of MRA.

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

> I’m thinking I didn’t know about Sharon-gate *snicker*
> because my TV watching habits lead me to premium
> cable on most days…not a massive conspiracy or cover-up.

If the sexes were reversed, it would be all over the fucking ether (and rightly so), and it would be impossible for you to avoid learning about it.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I was wondering how long it would take him to raise Solanas from the dead after whining about Sharon Osbourne.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

@BASTA

Even if your weird fantasy of what gender studies is were true, it still wouldn’t make NCFM any less of an advocate for child abusers. No amount of “I know you are but what am I” is going to change the fact that you are in a movement about allowing child abusers to continue to abuse.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

“Reality TV star says offensive thing about women” – yeah I’ll bet that would be worldwide front page news.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Um, Tyson was convicted but still works in film and whatever else his agent can get him. You’re worried about him being ostracised? He’s fine. And he actually did what he was prosecuted for. The ear biting thing was nasty too, ergh.

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

> A defense of admitted child abuser Thomas Ball.

Thomas Ball is a martyr, and you are an asshole.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Shorter BASTA: “The fact that some people expect the entertainment industry to employ people who are not convicted rapists instead of people who are convicted rapists is evidence of misandry.”

How’s that abuser lobbying working out for you?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Thomas Ball is a martyr

You certainly seem to think so, but he also is an admitted child abuser. As in, he admitted in court that he abused his child. That’s just a statement of fact.

As an interesting point of fact as well, Ball was originally offered visitation rights and was offered eventual partial custody upon his completion of anger management therapy and a psychiatric evaluation.

So, I suppose he was “martyred” by the expectation that a child abuser should not have custody of children until they have undergone the minimum possible amount of personal growth.

Big hero you’ve got there.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Thomas Ball is a martyr, and you are an asshole.

HAHAHA, only an abuse apologist fucknut would honestly think Ball’s a martyr. Guess we know exactly what you are now.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

Is the judge only kidding when (s)he says “6 years incarceration”, and what (s)he really means is “6 years incarceration and lifetime of ostracism”?

No, the lifetime of ostracism should come from society, which, in my fantasy land, would recognize that rapists are bad people. Much like murderers, who are not known for getting movie gigs and being cultural icons. We are not talking tax frauds here.

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

@DeadHand:

[truckload of Godwin idiocy redacted]

> we’ve been betrayed, our birthright was stolen and anyone
> who disagrees with us is not just wrong but evil and they must
> be dealt with as harshly as possible

Funny, I would be tricked if somebody told me that the words above were penned by a Goddess-feminist or a gyn-eco-feminist.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Also, BASTA, I’m finding it pretty hilarious how you keep ignoring my question about how the ncfm’s advocacy of removing dv protections for gay men fits into your philosophy.

Can’t find a way to rationalize that?

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

OK, this is a classical gang up, boosted by your obvious timezone advantage. I quit, this stays.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Shorter BASTA: “I can’t think of a single good reason why the NCFM defends child abusers but attacks gay men.”

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

You come to a blog specifically devoted to mocking shitstains like yourself and you’re shocked that there’s more than one of us mocking you?

And you call me an imbecile.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

classical gang up

Lol, oh MRAs, why do you try to invent your own meanings for words?

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Based on this:

we’ve been betrayed, our birthright was stolen and anyone
> who disagrees with us is not just wrong but evil and they must
> be dealt with as harshly as possible

“Funny, I would be tricked if somebody told me that the words above were penned by a Goddess-feminist or a gyn-eco-feminist.”

I can tell you have a fear of being treated like a woman. On some level you acknowledge that women had some of their rights messed with — and some women might be pissed off because of it. You’re afraid of revenge, aren’t you?

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

OK. Your “proof” that NCFM defends child abusers was examined and deemed streeetchch-kkk-POING!-ed. Now, can I see a proof that NCFM attacks gay men?

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Some porn specializes in “classical gang up.”

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Your “proof” that NCFM defends child abusers was examined and deemed streeetchch-kkk-POING!-ed

Are you denying that the NCFM defends Thomas Ball? Or are you denying that Thomas Ball admitted he abused his child?

Now, can I see a proof that NCFM attacks gay men?

You sure can: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/16/national-coalition-for-men-backs-gop-version-of-violence-against-women-act/

Highlights: “But the House version of the reauthorization — which the White House has threatened to veto — omits provisions related to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered, immigrant and Native women and men that were included in the Senate version.”

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

blockquote fail, but you get the idea.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

So really, the NCFM has advocated against not only gay men, but also trans men, immigrant men, and Amerindian men.

BASTA!
BASTA!
8 years ago

@Ugh: English is my fucking 4th language learned later in life, you privileged native-speaker-of-world-dominant-language asshole, and yes, I did just confirm on dictionary.com that I got “gang up” wrong, and you won the debate. Triumph and rejoice.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

“we’ve been betrayed, our birthright was stolen and anyone
who disagrees with us is not just wrong but evil and they must
be dealt with as harshly as possible”

Funny, I would be tricked if somebody told me that the words above were penned by a Goddess-feminist or a gyn-eco-feminist.

lol dude

Work on your English reading comprehension.