So I’ve been mostly avoiding writing about the whole Men’s Rights postering controversy in Vancouver, because it’s such a tempest in a teapot. The tl;dr: Some posters got torn down, and some of the people tearing them down yelled at the blabby MRA videoblogger and A Voice for Men second fiddle known as JohnTheOther.
MRAs: Given that virtually none of you have any experience as actual real world activists, you may not be aware of this, but POSTERS GET TORN DOWN. It’s annoying, and I don’t support it myself, but it happens all the time. Sometimes, you may actually run across people tearing down your posters, at which point there is usually some sort of awkward confrontation that may include yelling.
You know what you do when this happens? You put your posters up again. You know what you don’t do? Compare the experience to rape. Because, on the list of the grand injustices of the world, having posters torn down is pretty far down the list, somewhere around “stubbing your toe” and “kitten farts on you.”
That said, here are a few new “developments” in this ongoing epic.
1) Jezebel has posted a piece about the controversy. The most interesting thing about it is the following quote from, you guessed it, JohnTheOther, who apparently had this to say to someone from a local “community-driven news” website. The topic? False accusations of rape.
Maybe it’s a mistaken accusation, she doesn’t remember who she had sex with because she was drunk at the party or whatever. Some make accusations that have nothing to do with being raped; they’re angry, or they got stood up, they wanted to have sex with a guy but he said no. The fact that our society doesn’t have a balance for this is a major problem. I’m not suggesting every woman you meet is a loose cannon, but every woman you meet has the potential to be one, because for those few who are nutty, there’s no disincentive for them to go, oh, I was late for work. I know, I’ll just say I got raped.
Now, if the Men’s Rights movement were an actual civil rights movement trying to better the lives of men, this quote would be a public relations disaster. What real civil rights movement would want to have itself associated with someone who seems to think that women make up rape accusations willy nilly, when a date stands them up or when they need an excuse for being late to work?
Of course, the Men’s Rights “movement” isn’t an actual civil rights movement at all; it’s more like a collective tantrum. While MRAs are eager to “spread the word,” the more spreading they do, the more damage they do to themselves. No one is better at making MRAs look bad than MRAs themselves, which is why on this blog I spend so much of the time letting these (mostly) dudes make themselves look ridiculous with their own words. So, JtO, thanks?
2) And speaking of Mr. TheOther, we can now see video footage of the supposed dramatic confrontation that JohnTheOther had with what his AVFM boss Paul Elam called “a gang of 20-30 assholes on the street, some wielding box cutters.”
GirlWritesWhat, one of the Men’s Rights movement’s few non-dudes, has put up selections of video footage from Mr. TheOther in her video below.
As you’ll see – unless for some reason GWW has decided not to post the most incriminating parts of the video — there was no gang; it was a small group of people. No one was “wielding box cutters” in a threatening manner. The whole thing took place in broad daylight on a busy street.
Some posters were taken down. There were some raised voices. That’s it. That’s the sort of shit activists deal with every fucking day of their life.
Here’s the video:
Am I missing something here? This non-event is the alleged confrontation that AVFM has been hyperventilating about all this time? This is the evil anti-MRA harassment that Elam says “makes getting bestially raped by Richard Dawkins sound kinda funny.”
Leave it to Mr. Elam to add a rape-joke cherry to this bullshit sundae. Once again, MRAs are their own worst enemies.
Polliwog, I don’t remember! Wouldn’t surprise me at all, though.
My favourite shop sign, seen in Brighton, England, in 1989: a shoe shop with the banner, “Slip into R Soles.”
@lordsetar, thanks for facing up to the anti-choicers too — two good deeds in one day! In general, I like to counter hate speech with more speech, so may I suggest some posters that could be put up to counter any AVfM posters? See: http://manboobz.com/2012/08/26/man-boobzers-join-the-poster-revolution-against-misandry-and-mean-ladies/
😉
Anyone notice that he had the same speaking tone and mannerism as Tom Martin and even Peter Nolan? That weird faux-polite way in which they expel sound-bites while addressing the othe person as “sir” or “ma’am”? It’s like these guys get a ton of practice having to explain themselves to authority figures (like police or judges)… I dunno… It’s weird.
Oh-ho-ho, I see what you did there, Warp! Pretty much par for the course when it comes to the lying, disingenuous scum that infest Boobzland. A hint there, an implication there, a wink there…. and suddenly John the Other becomes a monstrous boogeyman. All without a single pointed accusation. Never let it be said that the Boobz King and his minions weren’t clever troglodytes.
You’re one of the clumsier ones, I have to say – your hint was more a statement. You’ve got work to do if you want to be in the upper echelon of this vile group. Chop chop!
(/sarcasm)
Oooh, look everyone, rustbucket’s here! Pass the popcorn!
And still just as fond of hilarious projection and NO U arguments, I see.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/troglodyte
But look at that example of troglodytes being those in the military who didn’t want women except as nurses, maybe! MERRIAM WEBSTER IS A FEMINAZI ORGANISATION! MISANDRY!
Life is like a horror movie where all the major civil rights movements of the 60s almost kind of won!
(If you’re an MRA)
Butthorn, it is not unreasonable to suggest that most MRAs have had experience speaking with the police and judges. Many of them even talk of the experience (Tom Martin, Girl Writes What, Peter Nolan, etc.) And we all know how much MRAs like to complain about their unfair divorce and child custody hearings.
We have a laminator at work that totally sounds like the Twilight Zone sound effects … I keep expecting to hear Rod Serling doing a voiceover.
Well, nearly time to head home … will there be a puddle of melted Steele when I next check in? Will I miss a truly popcorn-worthy session from the steel wool soap pad? Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of Man Boooooobz!
How the deuce are men’s rights activists going to fill the three seats for “No, feminism has not gone too far” in this debate?
Is suggesting that JohnTheOther probably has a lot of experience dealing with authority figures more or less disingenuous than creating a sockpuppet to generate the illusion of support for your incredibly stupid ideas? What about claiming that you’d been dox’d when all David did was point out said sockpuppeting, where does that rank on the disingenu-meter?
@cloudiah
lordsetar was not at those demonstrations at first, because he was busy writing me an essay-length “fuck you” when I posted the first call for action in a predominantly male group of 500 people.
lordsetar also isn’t attending those demonstrations, motivated by a sense of justice, or he wouldn’t have trashed me again twice recently, out of a need to be right and recognized as a White Knight.
It’s unfortunate he continues to pat himself on the back for the handful of times he showed up there, while he makes no mention whatsoever of other people, such as myself, who have been there every weekend for four months (with few absences), and who have put their own safety at risk (i.e., speaking of myself here) to deflect an antagonizer’s attention away from him even though he continued to escalate the situation until the effort to deflect was finally successful (i.e., signified by said antagonizer threatening physical violence against me).
I’m delighted that you are a supporter. Just sad that your gratitude went to the person who has contributed to a shared feeling among a number of our regulars, that they aren’t safe at the demonstrations any more (he also violated the safe space rules for a men’s group).
Hey Steele. I’m new to this whole gender studies thing, and I’ve got a few questions for you, if you’re willing to actually answer.
First section, why are you an MRA? What is it about the movement that attracts you? Did you have a particular experience that led you to it? How did you find out about it?
Second section, do you truly believe that all women are whores/sluts/other derogatory gendered slur? What actions could a woman take to not be one of these, in your estimation? Is a woman who works or a woman who stays at home with the kids worse, to you?
Like I said, I’m new and this is my first time interacting with an MRA “in the wild.” Who knows, if you’re persuasive enough, you might just change my mind.
You are correct, they are garden-variety hateful sites in the MRM
@HaifischGeweint, I acknowledge I am not a participant in Vancouver activities. Thanks for providing more information, but understand that since I am not a participant in other arenas I cannot speak to them and just respond based on what gets posted here.
Best wishes for any work organizing against anti-choicers.
I’m disappointed, but not surprised, that MGTOWMRA never came back after David pointed out his inconsistencies. I wanted to see what he would come up with to explain it. ‘That wasn’t me! Someone got onto my computer and emulated my writing voice!’ ‘I had amnesia and forgot about my amazing feminist wife and then two weeks ago the MRAs brought my memories back!’
@cloudia
I’m aware. I just thought that with some background, you might suddenly notice that lordsetar appears to be more interested in a photo op coming out of his “activism”, than he is interested in actual results, such as social justice.
Err… My apologies for misspelling your handle, cloudiah.
One of my job duties at my work is to take care of the employee bulletin board. Now, this is a bulletin board that, contrary to the name, is in a public place in the basement of our government building. So this means that every activist and their puppy-dog wants to put up shit that doesn’t belong. There are clearly marked rules on the board-
No profit making
No religious stuff (of any sort)
No political stuff
No offensive/riot-inciting stuff
No undated material
What do I constantly have to keep tearing down? Mostly stuff that violates at least three or four of the above rules.
Sometimes the real estate shitheads have a field day and clog up the board with their overpriced Mc-Mansions. I tear them right the hell down. Sometimes church groups post their “gays going to hell” propaganda on the board. Once again, it gets torn down. And since I seem to live in the liberal activist town from hell (we have activists who generally actually are trying to get shit done, but the ones I encounter are mostly basically just really loud yelly people with megaphones and a messiah complex!), I get a ton of political flyers- everything from the conservative side (Obama is a goat! Who shoots lasers from his teats!) to the anarchist/super liberal side (Sugar is made of capitalist evil and ground up babies- but mostly babies! Clothing, working for a wage and living indoors is a symbol of your oppression-pachouli oil and good vibes totally hide any smells!). All get torn down.
Do you know what they do? They either come up and shout at me for doing it, at which point I point to the sign of the rules of the bulletin board and say that even if it was [insert opposite cause here], I would have to tear it down just to be fair or they put it up a few times and I tear it down a few times and then they get the message. Then I suggest other places where they can legally post such materials (there are public bulletin boards as well as posting boards in local businesses that allow such things), and most are happy to listen to me (or at least they go off in a huff).
Having a shitfit because someone took down your poster is pretty much the epitome of entitled douchebaggery.
That reminds me of this guy who came into my office this morning with a parking ticket. He was ranting and raving about how it was “oppression” that he had gotten his ticket. He railed against the parking attendant and went on at length about how he had been “forced” to come to the building to pay over $1800 in planning fees for his project and that just because he was parked in the 1 hour zone, he should not have had to pay for parking at ALL because goddammit he HAD to be there and therefore he should have a magic exception for him, even though he parked in front of that one hour sign and made his choice when he came to park in that spot.
He went on and on about how there were “plenty of spaces” (perhaps that is because our parking attendant does his job and doesn’t allow douchey assholes to sit around in the 1 hour parking zone all day long?), and I just looked at him until he was done, told him that he could attempt to protest the ticket, and sent him on his way.
This is not even the most ridiculous response to a ticket I’ve encountered. There was one guy, maybe in his late 50’s early 60’s who seriously came in with a ticket (they’re 25 bucks) and FELL ON THE FLOOR CRYING AND SCREAMING LIKE A TODDLER when talking reasonably to the manager didn’t automatically get his ticket taken back. I am not even kidding here. ENTITLEMENT. He had it baaaaaaad.
And yet these guys show off blatantly horrible and nasty behavior and then expect everyone to see them as victims? PSHAW.
Oh, and on a related note- I thought this was an interesting blog post about the “distress of the privileged.”
http://weeklysift.com/2012/09/10/the-distress-of-the-privileged/
“As the culture evolves, people who benefitted from the old ways invariably see themselves as victims of change. The world used to fit them like a glove, but it no longer does. Increasingly, they find themselves in unfamiliar situations that feel unfair or even unsafe. Their concerns used to take center stage, but now they must compete with the formerly invisible concerns of others.
If you are one of the newly-visible others, this all sounds whiny compared to the problems you face every day. It’s tempting to blast through such privileged resistance with anger and insult.
Tempting, but also, I think, a mistake. The privileged are still privileged enough to foment a counter-revolution, if their frustrated sense of entitlement hardens.”
Which is where I think that the whole MRM stems from- the idea of entitlement hardening….becoming twisted and horrible.
@ Nanasha
So you’re in Santa Cruz, then.
(Going by the description)
@Cassandra- Lol- It’s the smallest little open air insane asylum you’ll ever visit thinking it’s a vacation town!
It looks so idyllic! And then you look more closely.