So I’ve been mostly avoiding writing about the whole Men’s Rights postering controversy in Vancouver, because it’s such a tempest in a teapot. The tl;dr: Some posters got torn down, and some of the people tearing them down yelled at the blabby MRA videoblogger and A Voice for Men second fiddle known as JohnTheOther.
MRAs: Given that virtually none of you have any experience as actual real world activists, you may not be aware of this, but POSTERS GET TORN DOWN. It’s annoying, and I don’t support it myself, but it happens all the time. Sometimes, you may actually run across people tearing down your posters, at which point there is usually some sort of awkward confrontation that may include yelling.
You know what you do when this happens? You put your posters up again. You know what you don’t do? Compare the experience to rape. Because, on the list of the grand injustices of the world, having posters torn down is pretty far down the list, somewhere around “stubbing your toe” and “kitten farts on you.”
That said, here are a few new “developments” in this ongoing epic.
1) Jezebel has posted a piece about the controversy. The most interesting thing about it is the following quote from, you guessed it, JohnTheOther, who apparently had this to say to someone from a local “community-driven news” website. The topic? False accusations of rape.
Maybe it’s a mistaken accusation, she doesn’t remember who she had sex with because she was drunk at the party or whatever. Some make accusations that have nothing to do with being raped; they’re angry, or they got stood up, they wanted to have sex with a guy but he said no. The fact that our society doesn’t have a balance for this is a major problem. I’m not suggesting every woman you meet is a loose cannon, but every woman you meet has the potential to be one, because for those few who are nutty, there’s no disincentive for them to go, oh, I was late for work. I know, I’ll just say I got raped.
Now, if the Men’s Rights movement were an actual civil rights movement trying to better the lives of men, this quote would be a public relations disaster. What real civil rights movement would want to have itself associated with someone who seems to think that women make up rape accusations willy nilly, when a date stands them up or when they need an excuse for being late to work?
Of course, the Men’s Rights “movement” isn’t an actual civil rights movement at all; it’s more like a collective tantrum. While MRAs are eager to “spread the word,” the more spreading they do, the more damage they do to themselves. No one is better at making MRAs look bad than MRAs themselves, which is why on this blog I spend so much of the time letting these (mostly) dudes make themselves look ridiculous with their own words. So, JtO, thanks?
2) And speaking of Mr. TheOther, we can now see video footage of the supposed dramatic confrontation that JohnTheOther had with what his AVFM boss Paul Elam called “a gang of 20-30 assholes on the street, some wielding box cutters.”
GirlWritesWhat, one of the Men’s Rights movement’s few non-dudes, has put up selections of video footage from Mr. TheOther in her video below.
As you’ll see – unless for some reason GWW has decided not to post the most incriminating parts of the video — there was no gang; it was a small group of people. No one was “wielding box cutters” in a threatening manner. The whole thing took place in broad daylight on a busy street.
Some posters were taken down. There were some raised voices. That’s it. That’s the sort of shit activists deal with every fucking day of their life.
Here’s the video:
Am I missing something here? This non-event is the alleged confrontation that AVFM has been hyperventilating about all this time? This is the evil anti-MRA harassment that Elam says “makes getting bestially raped by Richard Dawkins sound kinda funny.”
Leave it to Mr. Elam to add a rape-joke cherry to this bullshit sundae. Once again, MRAs are their own worst enemies.
@katz: from the full text cloudiah posted, it looks like they still want to have three speakers on each side: The debate format will be three speakers presenting arguments in favour of the debate proposition: “Has feminism gone too far?” and Three speakers presenting arguments against the proposition. It’s just a terribly formatted sentence.
Still, it’s being hosted by an MRA (how is a car dealership a good location to host a debate, anyway?) and doubtless being moderated by JtO or someone he picks, so it’s still pretty likely to be biased. But they’re not explicitly giving one side more time or speakers.
@MGTOWMRA
What you refer to as the MRM is not, and moderate minded men should steer clear of describing themselves as a part of it. The MRM has presented its face to the public, and it is hostile to women, feminism, and the majority of men as well.
The MRM has made the mistake of confusing women with feminism. They claim to hate feminists, yet feminists are the ones who more closely align with the tenets of true gender equality. Women who are gold diggers tend to not be feminists, yet the MRM continually confuses the two. It would be more accurate if the MRM would just admit that it is against women being on equal par with men, plain and simple. They believe women are inferior to men in every way, morally, physically, intellectually. They want women to be dependent on men and powerless, so men can do as they will without any repercussions. They seriously and regularly discuss stripping away women’s right to vote, women’s right to divorce, women being educated and owning property. They continually praise Muslim societies and Shariah Law for knowing how to handle women.
If you disagree with any of the above, you are not an MRA, and you are doing yourself a great disservice in calling yourself one. I am sick of being told over and over again that these just represent the “radical fringe” of the MRM, when time after time I am shown the opposite. Simply browsing through this site you can see the repeated insults against women made by MRAs such as JtO, WF Price, Paul Elam, Bernard Chapin, Barbarossa, Manwomanmyth, and Girl Writes What and their numerous commentors. The resounding theme when you read their works in an unwavering disdain for women.
It is very honorable for you to be concerned with helping men. Feminists would support you in those endeavors. It is important to raise awareness for male victims of DV, the abuses facing men in prison, male homelessness, and a myriad other issues that are often overlooked in the mainstream. But the MRM does nothing but give lip service to these issues, if acknowledging them at all. They are more concerned with taking rights from women rather than helping men. They would rather deride dissenting men as “manginas” and “white knights” than offer any sincere help to men in need. They are not compassionate. They are bitter, angry, and narcissistic.
IF you truly wish to help men, then I suggest you start a new movement. The MRM is a sinking ship. And whether you like it or not, A Voice for Men and The Spearhead, ARE the MRM. You may not agree with this choice. You may have had nothing to do with this choice. But the choice has been made.
Psychodan: Whoops, you’re right. In that case, that’s just a ton of speakers.
@Hellkell
how me the moderates, please. Also. if you’re going your own way, does your wife know? How does a man GHOW when married?
There are moderates. Paul Elam on a Voice for Men and Bill Price on The Spearhead,( 2 good websites which I like and endorse) have actually censored racists, anti semites, btter hateful people from their websites/blogs.
Also, Of Course, my wife does know about my MRA/MGTOW views. In fact my wife is a feminist and regularly reads websites such as Jezebel and Pandagon. We agree to disagree, and for us it is all about “opposites attract” in our relationship. We have a lot n common to talk about as far as gender issues.
You asked how does a man GHOW when married. Some MGTOW men do not marry or avoid women, some are married. It is all about “doing your own thing as a man” and having that freedom. I used to be an MGTOW that avoided women but met my wife on a gender blog (we actually bickered back and forth in initially), and decided to get in a relationship with a woman and get married. I did a 360, you never know in life. But I still am an MRA.
Neither AVFM nor The Spearhead could be considered moderate by anyone with a lick of common sense.
I WAS TOTALLY UP FOR THAT THREESOME BUT I MADE A LEFT TURN AT ALBUQUERQUE.
…dude, seriously? Paul “we should never convict rapists, ever, even if we know they’re guilty” Elam is a “moderate”?
I would HATE to see what you think a radical looks like.
All of which have hateful views of women…
I actually do not believe this, why did you decide to meet in real life after bickering on a blog?
That’s maybe doing a 15. 20 at the most.
Is that why our revolving door trolls won’t go away? They watched some old movie and came away with the impression that if you meet a woman and the two of you can’t stop arguing it’s destined to lead to Twu Luv one day?
Elam is the guy that said seeing feminists suffer gives him a boner… realll moderatee:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/the-fembots-are-already-bent-out-of-shape/
Your imaginary wife sounds awesome.
Oooh, a “look how reasonable I am” troll. I’ll put on the popcorn and wait for the inevitable meltdown.
Also he keeps using slurs like “whores” and “cunts” I am not seeing much that makes him look very moderate and more that shows he looks like a hateful bigot. I mean ffs just look at the elam tag on manboobz and you will see tons of examples of the hateful crap he has said:
http://manboobz.com/category/paul-elam/
@CWS: You mean the perfectly cylindrical pompadour thing?
That reminds me, a friend told me a couple months ago that they saw the movie on TV, and that almost all the scenes with Ruby Rhod had been removed. My first thought was “how?” He’s in so much of the movie I can’t imagine it making any sense without him. My second thought was “why?”, but sadly that’s much easier to answer.
I’m curious what would a moderate MRA site even be?
If it’s all about helping men break out of traditional gender roles, then is there an MRA site where you can start up a conversation about doing something traditionally “girly” without getting shouted down? Something like… being a stay-at-home dad, while the wife brings home the bacon, or cross-dressing?* I highly doubt anyone can do this at AVfM or the Spearhead.
Is there even an MRA site where one can get shouted down by starting up a conversation about repealing women’s suffrage?
*I… suppose some have started doll collections.
Also Jezebel and Pandagon are such bland typical feminist sites to use for your imaginary feminist wife…. XD
Come on dude you could at least list more specific sites rather than the main sites all mras think feminists read. Hell I could think up a better imaginary mra husband than your imaginary feminist wife. XD
@Fembot
The MRM has made the mistake of confusing women with feminism. They claim to hate feminists, yet feminists are the ones who more closely align with the tenets of true gender equality. Women who are gold diggers tend to not be feminists, yet the MRM continually confuses the two. It would be more accurate if the MRM would just admit that it is against women being on equal par with men, plain and simple. They believe women are inferior to men in every way, morally, physically, intellectually. They want women to be dependent on men and powerless, so men can do as they will without any repercussions. They seriously and regularly discuss stripping away women’s right to vote, women’s right to divorce, women being educated and owning property. They continually praise Muslim societies and Shariah Law for knowing how to handle women.”
Fembot, show me examples of this? Both A Voice for Men and The Spearhead delve into Mens issues such as Fathers rights or custody issues and issues such as Male suicide rates. In fact there are some women who regularly comment on The Spearhead and A Voice for men. Bill Price the Moderator/Owner of The Spearhead has a girlfriend and does not hate women. I believe The Spearhead and A Voice for men are excellent MRM sites along with The National Coalition For Men, The Mankind Project and Warren Farrell’s site.
Fembot you may have experienced some bitter, woman hating men on the internet but these may have been men who have been hurt by some women in their lives and have not gotten over and are bitter MRA’s. I know I was a bitter MRA/MGTOW for a while until I worked on my issues and past hurts by women to me and am now a happily married MRA. It takes time for some men to heal.
To be fair the RockinMr.E on youtube is a stay at home dad. He cares for his daughter and works part time as a (guess what) rock musician. However, he is sure to emphasize that his wife leaves her career hat at the door, and behaves like a proper wife at home, and she agrees with him that feminists are bad. How he does not recognize the irony in this is beyond me.
MGTOWMRAL: We have tags for both A Voice for Men and The Spearhead. Peruse at your pleasure.
Here is a comment from the Spearhead made by Daryl X. The fact that Price allows this to be posted and upvoted does not make him look very moderate. And this is by no means atypical. I have read similar tirades from many an MRA.
The last paragraph should not be in block quotes.
Uhoh where have I heard this narrative before…Women just need to put up with men treating them like shit because poor men have been hurt by women… Bull Fucking Crap. I have had a lot of issues with women (and men too) in my life but I have never turned hateful to either because I know people are individuals and one or a few bad people does not mean the entire group is hateful. I have no sympathy to the racist who hates black people because he got mugged by one likewise I have no sympathy for the misogynist who hates women because of his dating issues with women.
Here is another gem. Be sure to read the comments.
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/08/04/what-will-future-america-be-like-for-women/
And I really don’t care if MRAs have been hurt by women. Everyone is hurt in the game of love sooner or later. It doesn’t give you the right to become a hateful bigot.
So, I have this one ex who was a complete asshole – he stalked me after we broke up. Does that mean that I can post a gender switched version of the rant Fembot posted above, and it’s OK because after all there was a man who really treated me badly once and that hurt?
Consider your answer and what it says about your prejudices carefully, Mr Moderate.