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a voice for men antifeminism antifeminst women cuteness drama kings evil women false accusations FemRAs grandiosity johntheother kitties men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA narcissism paranoia paul elam rape rape jokes shit that never happened the poster revolution has begun

Posters getting torn down: A crime against humanity? (Includes video footage of JohnTheOther’s epic confrontation with alleged box-cutter wielding gang.)

Farting kittens: The real oppressors?

So I’ve been mostly avoiding writing about the whole Men’s Rights postering controversy in Vancouver, because it’s such a tempest in a teapot. The tl;dr: Some posters got torn down, and some of the people tearing them down yelled at the blabby MRA videoblogger and A Voice for Men second fiddle known as JohnTheOther.

MRAs: Given that virtually none of you have any experience as actual real world activists, you may not be aware of this, but POSTERS GET TORN DOWN. It’s annoying, and I don’t support it myself, but it happens all the time. Sometimes, you may actually run across people tearing down your posters, at which point there is usually some sort of awkward confrontation that may include yelling.

You know what you do when this happens? You put your posters up again. You know what you don’t do? Compare the experience to rape. Because, on the list of the grand injustices of the world, having posters torn down is pretty far down the list, somewhere around “stubbing your toe” and “kitten farts on you.”

That said, here are a few new “developments” in this ongoing epic.

1) Jezebel has posted a piece about the controversy. The most interesting thing about it is the following quote from, you guessed it, JohnTheOther, who apparently had this to say to someone from a local “community-driven news” website. The topic? False accusations of rape.

Maybe it’s a mistaken accusation, she doesn’t remember who she had sex with because she was drunk at the party or whatever. Some make accusations that have nothing to do with being raped; they’re angry, or they got stood up, they wanted to have sex with a guy but he said no. The fact that our society doesn’t have a balance for this is a major problem. I’m not suggesting every woman you meet is a loose cannon, but every woman you meet has the potential to be one, because for those few who are nutty, there’s no disincentive for them to go, oh, I was late for work. I know, I’ll just say I got raped.

Now, if the Men’s Rights movement were an actual civil rights movement trying to better the lives of men, this quote would be a public relations disaster. What real civil rights movement would want to have itself associated with someone who seems to think that women make up rape accusations willy nilly, when a date stands them up or when they need an excuse for being late to work?

Of course, the Men’s Rights “movement” isn’t an actual civil rights movement at all; it’s more like a collective tantrum. While MRAs are eager to “spread the word,” the more spreading they do, the more damage they do to themselves. No one is better at making MRAs look bad than MRAs themselves, which is why on this blog I spend so much of the time letting these (mostly) dudes make themselves look ridiculous with their own words. So, JtO, thanks?

2) And speaking of Mr. TheOther, we can now see video footage of the supposed dramatic confrontation that JohnTheOther had with what his AVFM boss Paul Elam called “a gang of 20-30 assholes on the street, some wielding box cutters.”

GirlWritesWhat, one of the Men’s Rights movement’s few non-dudes, has put up selections of video footage from Mr. TheOther in her video below.

As you’ll see – unless for some reason GWW has decided not to post the most incriminating parts of the video — there was no gang; it was a small group of people. No one was “wielding box cutters” in a threatening manner. The whole thing took place in broad daylight on a busy street.

Some posters were taken down. There were some raised voices. That’s it. That’s the sort of shit activists deal with every fucking day of their life.

Here’s the video:

Am I missing something here? This non-event is the alleged confrontation that AVFM has been hyperventilating about all this time? This is the evil anti-MRA harassment that Elam says “makes getting bestially raped by Richard Dawkins sound kinda funny.”

Leave it to Mr. Elam to add a rape-joke cherry to this bullshit sundae. Once again, MRAs are their own worst enemies.

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Missy M.
12 years ago

Yes, “collective tantrum” is the most apt description on MRA’s that I’ve heard yet.

Shaenon
12 years ago

I have to admit, I’ve been curious for a while now about John’s tragic assault by a gang of 20 boxcutter-weilding thugs and his heroic battle for his very life, as described by John himself and many other passing MRAs.

I can’t believe he actually posted the video, revealing that what actually happened was pretty much what I figured it was: getting into an incoherent argument about feminism with two angry hipsters.

Howard Bannister
Howard Bannister
12 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen: Yeah, that is one more piece of wood for the fire. The one where we’re burning the idea that the MRM has every done anything to actually help men. See also: totally a hate movement.

drst
drst
12 years ago

I’ve had more dramatic confrontations while waiting in line to go to the bathroom. Jesus wept.

freitag235
freitag235
12 years ago

Late to the party.

That was the epic confrontation between JtO and the box-cutter-wielding mob of feminist activists who menaced his very life?

Really?

Um, I am less than awestricken. Nice choice of kitten to illustrate the drama.

Sheesh. Angry mobs just aren’t what they used to be.

hellkell
hellkell
12 years ago

OFCOURSE it was a couple pissed hipsters. I didn’t believe for a second that JtO was met by a box-cutter wielding mob. HA.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
12 years ago

There must be some way to watch that without GWW’s stupid smirk showing up. I love how she’s all “AH HA! I caught you in the imputation of malice, evul feminist” because omg what a surprise that people contradict themselves in emotional situations. Anyway, I didn’t watch the whole thing, but without a doubt the very best part is when John the Other has Chuck Norris paradropped in to break that alien’s leg, and then they all escape Los Angeles while the whole city and the earth beneath it somehow fall into a vast abyss.

cloudiah
12 years ago

Here’s the Jezebel story and the debate organizer’s description of what happened:

Oh Hi! I’m the woman in the article who was organizing the debate. I
have a few things to clarify.

1. I am a feminist. I have been since I was raped in high school and
my English teacher gave me the Female Eunuch to read. I have been
working for years to create safer spaces, restorative justice models
for sexual Perpetrators, inclusivity in hiring and training, promoting
women in technology and counter protesting Prolifers. I’ve made a lot
of friends and way more enemies doing all this, because the world is
pretty misogynistic. I fuck up all the time and try to learn from my
mistakes.

2.I had contacted over twenty people on either side of the debate to
speak and announced that I would post who was speaking as they
confirmed. Unsurprisingly the men from the MRA got back to me first
and I felt it only honest to post that they were speaking. In
hindsight lying would have made my life easier and not fucked up my
names google search. I still would have been honest if I could do it
all again.

3. I took the event down because of threats I had received from MRA
members when I told them I was thinking of cancelling the
event/changing the question. Having my Facebook account linked to here
has reduced my safety from these men, who didn’t have my personal
information as I was speaking with them over email. I have now had to
cancel my FB profile which impacts my job seriously. Luckily I am in
England right now so am safe.

I didn’t take the event down straight away when this happened because
I wanted to honor the community who were having some very heated
debate on the topic on the events wall. Ironically if I had just been
selfish and deleted it like nothing had happened and not apologised I
wouldn’t be name as a misogynist on one of my favorite Feminist
Websites.

4. In the article it is said that the debate was biased from the
outset because of the name of it. Debates are classically run with a
biased statement which you then have a Yes side and a No side to. The
topic “has feminism gone too far” is offensive to me too. It hurts
that this is a legitimate question in our society, but sadly I know
all too well that there are waaaaaay too many people who think this is
true. I wanted to address that.

5. I really do understand why people don’t think the fucktards from
the MRA deserved to speak in a public forum. I grew up watching and
attending many public debates where all sorts of outrageous topics
were discussed and every single time I learnt something. If, as
Feminists we think we know everything there is to know we’re gonna
fall on our faces. We have to be willing to learn, fuck up, forgive
and get better, because otherwise how are we going to expect any
Misogynists who see the light to learn and be forgiven? I know it’s
deluded to think the MRA’s have anything to teach us, but what if?
What if they learned something from us, what if someone in the
audience sees there are fucked up men in the world and decide to
dedicate their lives to fixing it? Yeah maybe it would have been a
cluster fuck, but I just wanted to give it go. Anyone who didn’t want
to go, didn’t have to go.

I was willing to change the name of the debate and even the speakers,
but never got a chance to consult the community, for whom I was
putting this debate on for.

6. The things I have learned from this include:
a) When you are organizing an event which could be contentious make up
a fake name/organization. People are cruel when you fuckup and it gets
personal.
b) Organize your shit better because people will assume the worst about you.
c) Keep trying new things. A diversity of tactics is the only way we
can improve the lives of women all over the world.

In conclusion, I am genuinely sorry. I fucked up.

red_locker
12 years ago

You know how superheroes and supervillains have epic clashes that shatter entire cities, nations, worlds and even universes?

This is not one of those times. This is more like one guy trying to document their Totally Awesome Skateboarding Trick, only to fall into a pile of manure.

Ayla
Ayla
12 years ago

God damnit, I wanted a bloody fucking boxcutter fight. Ripped off!

cloudiah
12 years ago

Oops, I forgot to include the link.

And here is JtO claiming that the debate was cancelled because of “feminist harassment. The lying douchecanoe.

And now he is saying that the debate is back on. Format: 3 speakers, two of whom are the two original MRA speakers talked about in the Jezebel article. Well, that certainly seems fair! MRAs pick the venue, the format, and get to be the majority (if not the totality) of the speakers.

Gee, I wonder who GWW will declare the winner of that “debate?” The suspense is killing me.

freitag235
freitag235
12 years ago

Angry mob: This is more like it.

cloudiah
12 years ago

For “angry mob,” I would also have accepted something like this.

blitzgal
12 years ago

@cloudiah — The venue is at the car dealership owned by one of the speakers. Oh yeah, this event is going to be about as fair and balanced as Fox News is.

red_locker
12 years ago

@ cloudiah and blitzgal: Wow, that is fucked. MRAs digging their own hole by the day, it seems.

Feel sorry for the organizer.

freitag235
freitag235
12 years ago

Oh no, red_locker. This will give the MRAs a chance to show off their mad debating skillz, y’see. They’ll fuck up the shit of the feminazi opponents who dare defy the mighty MRM!

Yah, right. I hope somebody tapes it for posterity.

Fembot
Fembot
12 years ago

What a bunch of losers. I’m sorry, but I feel a bout of shaming language coming on. What a bunch of neck bearded basement dwelling tin foil hat wearing drama queen LOSERS!!!!

ShadetheDruid
12 years ago

I hope somebody tapes it for posterity. – Freitag

I misread that as “I hope somebody tapes it for posterior”.

Cliff Pervocracy (@pervocracy)

Is it just me, or does this debate format make no sense:

“Has feminism gone too far?” and Three speakers presenting arguments against the proposition. Each speaker will have 5 minutes to present an opening argument, alternating between for- and against postions. Following opening arguments, each speaker will have 5 minutes to address presented arguments. A third round of discussion will allow 3 minutes to address counter arguments, and final statements will be formatted within 3 minutes per speaker, for a total of four rounds of discussion for all speakers.

So… every speaker is going to argue against the proposition?
Or each speaker is going to argue both for and against the proposition?

I think what he means is that it’s going to be a 2-on-1 debate, which still makes little sense–giving one side twice the people and twice the time is going to make the organizers’ bias pretty damn obvious.

The only question now is whether they get an MRA to present a deliberately strawmanny and weaksauce “pro-feminist” viewpoint, or if they cancel the event again when they realize no feminist speaker is going to take that bait.

freitag235
freitag235
12 years ago

IF, and I emphasize IF, it’s going to be a proper debate, then each side needs to cite their sources. I would dearly love to see/hear/read one defend the “90% of rape allegations are false” bullshit.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
12 years ago

The only question now is whether they get an MRA to present a deliberately strawmanny and weaksauce “pro-feminist” viewpoint, or if they cancel the event again when they realize no feminist speaker is going to take that bait.

Yeah, I think they would run their debate like how Bill O’ Reilly does his show, shout down anyone who disagrees and then declare themselves the winner. Not to mention I think it’s very dangerous to interact with MRA’s in person.

Ayla
Ayla
12 years ago

Oh somebody please post the name of the dealership where this farce will be held. I’ll bet it could use some yelp reviews.

cloudiah
12 years ago

The MRA blitz attack on the original debate organizer remind me a bit of the conservative response to that guy who bear-hugged Obama: flooding his restaurant’s Yelp page with fake negative reviews. Because there’s no better way to show your side supports freedom and small businesses than destroying the business of someone who disagrees with you!

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
12 years ago

I want to know how an MRA has enough money to own a car dealership. I thought they all had to pay 95% of their income to child support, according to all of the tales they tell at reddit: men’s rights.

ostara321
ostara321
12 years ago

Their poster feels sort of like a thinly veiled threat. “Do you hate and fear men? DO YOU?” feels like a Dirty Harry rip off of “Well? Do ya punk?”