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How to Get Downvoted on the Men’s Rights Subreddit, Sandra Fluke edition

If you ever have the desire to get yourself downvoted on the Men’s Rights subreddit, here’s one sure-fire strategy: Write a sensible comment suggesting that birth control benefits people with penises as much as people with vaginas.

Here are the two top replies to this comment:

I was going to point out some of the ironies inherent in Men’s Rightsers getting mad about women getting “free” birth control, but I suspect you can figure those out on your own.

This is why the so-called Men’s Rights movement is not so much a rights movement as a take-away-other-people’s-rights movement.

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leftwingfox
8 years ago

Don’t forget the Hot Rods.

But yeah. All for free condom programs, but there’s a big difference between prescription medicine being covered like other prescription medicine, and non-prescription OTC products being made more freely available.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

“Hate speech is meaningless when it’s not applied to the incitement of violence! Now excuse me while I ignore the Thomas Ball section on AVoiceForMen.com, helpfully listed under “Activism” on the front page. I will also be pretending that the non-legal definition of hate speech, which is communication that vilifies a person or a group on the basis of color, disability, ethnicity, gender, nationality, race, religion, sexual orientation, or other characteristic, does not exist.”

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
8 years ago

Also, $60 for a yearly supply of b/c? Not likely in the US. I only pay a copay for mine, and get a generic, and it is still $10/mo or $120 a year. If you aren’t covered (and I don’t think I’d be covered except I have a documented medical need), then it is even more. Is that estimate based on birth control coverage in health insurance, or are b/c pills just that cheap in Sweden?

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

I didn’t even have to look for this bit of incitement to violence in Thomas Ball’s manifesto, I just scrolled down and stopped:

I only managed to get the main door of the Cheshire County Courthouse in Keene, NH. I would appreciate it if some of you boys would finish the job for me. They harmed my children. The place is evil. So take it out.

Somewhere along the line I picked up the crazy notion that it is better to be dead as a free man than to live as a serf. The government needs to be a little more careful about what they teach in our schools.

If they still do not get the message, then burn down the trailers.

And bring a can of spray paint to these fires. Paint the word COLLABORATORS ( two L’s with an S on the end) on the building before you burn it. Maybe we can shame them back to the rule of law. And we do want the police to know exactly who burned the building. Then the police can start interviewing the usually suspects, all 36 million of us.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“do you have any evidence-based justification for using for going with sex once per day as your baseline or did you just decide you were gonna baldly game the parameters and pray nobody called you on it?” the latter but it was just an example. I find that condoms are cheaper if having sex less than each fifth day, but if more often, the pill is cheaper.

So Polliwog, I don’t find your poor mailless person example appropriate.

Polliwog
8 years ago

Now I checked the prices.For adults a yearly pill subscribtion seems to cost around SEK 300- 400 ($45 -60) (source fass.se) while a yearly condom usage , calculated on 1 intercourse /day will cost around SEK 2000($ 300) (source rfsu.se, 60-pack). So I think economy is a barrier to condom usage.

Wait, when did we decide we were only talking about Sweden? Does Sweden even have health insurance per se? I thought it was a universal single-payer system, but I freely admit to not being some sort of expert on Swedish health care. If it is a single-payer country, though, it seems really silly to use it as your standard for what birth control costs under insurance plans.

Also, 365 fucks per year isn’t even close to average. 18-29 year olds have sex an average of 112 times per year, 30-39 year olds an average of 86 times per year, and 40-49 year olds an average of 69 times per year (Mosher, Chandra, Jones 2005). It took me literally about 6 seconds to Google that. Come on.

Sharculese
8 years ago

the latter but it was just an example. I find that condoms are cheaper if having sex less than each fifth day, but if more often, the pill is cheaper.

why are we supposed to set policy based on your lazy ad hoc speculation again? that sounds really dumb and irresponsible?

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

i have never seen one of you dudes just come out and admit you were a stupid child looking for attention before.

And yet you’re the one who replied to my posts several times even though I never addressed you. Quit tugging on daddy’s trousers, kid.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
8 years ago

Speaking of birth control costs, the first time I went on birth control (7-10th grades) my parents had to pay $25/mo, because evidently my insurance didn’t cover my birth control even though it was recommended by my doctor for medical issues. This meant that my sister delayed getting bc for her cysts because she didn’t want to cost the parents that much–I told her that we could afford it (because we could) but worry about the price cost my sister a few months of pain. However, they must have changed their policy, because by the time she went on the pills and I got back on them (12th grade, in my case) it was down to the $10 copay.

I wonder how many women and girls go without because they can’t manage to scrape up the cost. Sure, if it is for sex then condoms are an option, if one with pros and cons, but birth control is the best option for preventing me from ending up in excruciating, disabling pain every few months.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“Also, $60 for a yearly supply of b/c? Not likely in the US. I only pay a copay for mine, and get a generic, and it is still $10/mo or $120 a year. If you aren’t covered (and I don’t think I’d be covered except I have a documented medical need), then it is even more. Is that estimate based on birth control coverage in health insurance, or are b/c pills just that cheap in Sweden?”

It’s based on the state insurance. if you have other prescriptions, it will be even cheaper, and teens pay even less or free in most regions.

What does B/c cost uninsured in the US?

Gametime
8 years ago

And yet you’re the one who replied to my posts several times even though I never addressed you.

Hahahaha, this is fantastic.

“ONLY THE CHOSEN MAY ADDRESS ME! HOW DARE YOU RESPOND TO MY COMMENTS IN A PUBLIC SPACE?”

Sharculese
8 years ago

Also, $60 for a yearly supply of b/c? Not likely in the US. I only pay a copay for mine, and get a generic, and it is still $10/mo or $120 a year. If you aren’t covered (and I don’t think I’d be covered except I have a documented medical need), then it is even more. Is that estimate based on birth control coverage in health insurance, or are b/c pills just that cheap in Sweden?

This didn’t jump out at me the first time, but yeah, basing this comparison on bc with insurance vs. condoms w/o insurance is either deliberate dishonesty or just incompetence

Polliwog
8 years ago

Now, let me be clear – I totally support offering free condoms in schools, colleges, at PP clinics, etc. I am all in favor of finding ways to help people get condoms if they want them. But by and large, the barriers to buying condoms have very little to do with cost, and comparing them to the pill, which does have huge financial barriers in a whole lot of places (albeit possibly not Sweden! Which is pretty cool for Sweden!), is fairly nonsensical.

It also doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to single out condoms when talking about OTC products not covered by insurance. Why would insurance cover condoms and not Tylenol, or band-aids, or Neosporin, or heating pads, or toothpaste, or contact lens solution, or nasal spray, or friggin’ tampons, which I definitely use more of per year than condoms? And how would this coverage even work? I’d be happy to read and consider a real argument as to how insurance could practically fund OTC medical products, but that argument hasn’t been made yet.

Sharculese
8 years ago

And yet you’re the one who replied to my posts several times even though I never addressed you. Quit tugging on daddy’s trousers, kid.

yeah dude i replied to some comments on a public message board that sure is evidence of a thing?

do you think this weird faux-tough guy bullshit out before hand or is the plane always to just sort of stumble through here screaming about how much girls suck?

cloudiah
8 years ago

Our budget Al Gore kinda doesn’t understand the purpose of this site, does he?

Sharculese
8 years ago

It’s based on the state insurance. if you have other prescriptions, it will be even cheaper, and teens pay even less or free in most regions.

lol, of course.

this should have occurred to you already but the comparing subsidized and unsubsidized costs between two products is apple and oranges

if you have no problem with manipulating the numbers then yeah, there’s lots of things you can prove, but it doesn’t really prove anything except that your either a liar (and not a very clever one) or you honestly dont know what youre doing

Sharculese
8 years ago

Our budget Al Gore kinda doesn’t understand the purpose of this site, does he?

i dont think he really gets the internet. apparently he was under the impression that it’s a place where you don’t speak unless spoken too.

oh shit, cloudiah, did i have permission to reply to this. it’s important to know because otherwise im internetting wrong or something.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“this should have occurred to you already but the comparing subsidized and unsubsidized costs between two products is apple and oranges”

Why, if the point is that both products should be subsidized?

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

“ONLY THE CHOSEN MAY ADDRESS ME! HOW DARE YOU RESPOND TO MY COMMENTS IN A PUBLIC SPACE?”

But Dark Lord, there are so few of the Chosen left, I—*garglewheezespurgle*

/WoTnerding

I do like that we have two trolls in the same thread making hay of other people replying to their comments in a public forum. It’s almost like they’ve got jack shit to say otherwise.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

Our budget Al Gore kinda doesn’t understand the purpose of this site, does he?

He’s like an evil clone of Al Gore. However, in order to install the evil, they had to suck out the intelligence, common sense, and netiquette.

I’m not even sure if ‘netiquette’ is a word any more, but pants that, I’m using it. 😛

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“It also doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to single out condoms when talking about OTC products not covered by insurance.”

Yes,to stop the spread of STDs, which is good for the society

cloudiah
8 years ago

Sharculese, I will forgive you this once.

By the way, I have now copyrighted my name, (c)laudia-H and anyone who uses it owes me 40 oz of really good beer.

Sharculese
8 years ago

Why, if the point is that both products should be subsidized?

well yes, if the point is to reinforce what you already wanted to believe and not to find out whether the comparison is actually valid, then yes, you should use the comparison that shows what you want to see

that’s not the same thing as making an argument though. that’s telling yourself a fairy story.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

Is that weight ounces or fluid ounces?

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Is that weight ounces or fluid ounces?

I figured it was Troy ounces.

Sharculese
8 years ago

“why should i have to make sure my comparisons involves similar situations, if doing that doesnt prove exactly what i want to prove”

a question that should not be asked by anyone who know anything at all about what theyre doing

cloudiah
8 years ago

Can you have troy ounces of beer? I am too lazy to Google that. That is seriously lazy.

Sharculese
8 years ago

Can you have troy ounces of beer? I am too lazy to Google that. That is seriously lazy.

it’s only used in weighing metals, but yeah, 1 troy ounce is about 1.1 normal ounces

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

I don’t understand why it is so wierd an idea to think that condoms should be subsidized, they are really godd for the population health. A start could be that they are VAT-free goods, then perhaps some more state subsidies so that they will cost 50 % of the current price.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

So we should work out what a floz of Cloudiah’s favoured beer weighs, and then the heaviest is the one that should be given in glorious boozy tribute.

Or we should work out which one has the most liquid. And then with the glorious boozy tribute.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Really, I just want a good beer right now. Even a 12 oz bottle would do. But then I’d need a nap.

Sharculese
8 years ago

I don’t understand why it is so wierd an idea to think that condoms should be subsidized, they are really godd for the population health. A start could be that they are VAT-free goods, then perhaps some more state subsidies so that they will cost 50 % of the current price.

it isn’t a bad idea and nobody said it’s a bad idea. everyone here has been consistently saying make condoms available. i work for an organization that hands out shit tons of free condoms.

you just can’t compare the access issue to birth control in any meaningful way.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

It amuses me that if you weren’t to shorten “ounces” to “oz”, that the abbreviation for fluid ounces would be “flounce”. I imagine a “flounce of beer” would be the average amount of beer consumed between trolls saying they’re leaving and them actually leaving.

*Easily amused*

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Talacaris, you are beyond dense. Why subsidize something that’s really cheap and/or free? And don’t say because you’ll have sex everyday, that’s the biggest fairy tale of all.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

it’s only used in weighing metals, but yeah, 1 troy ounce is about 1.1 normal ounces

I say we split the difference and give [name redacted for financial and copyright concerns] some of that beer that has the little gold flakes in it.

Xtra
Xtra
8 years ago

“Also, $60 for a yearly supply of b/c? Not likely in the US. I only pay a copay for mine, and get a generic, and it is still $10/mo or $120 a year. If you aren’t covered (and I don’t think I’d be covered except I have a documented medical need), then it is even more. Is that estimate based on birth control coverage in health insurance, or are b/c pills just that cheap in Sweden?”

BC cost me $65 a month when I had no insurance. Plus the $250 it cost to see the doctor to get the prescription. There is also a cost for medicine to treat me when I have side effects of headaches and nausea.

Back when state governments were funding public clinics women could see the doctor there and get a years supply birth control on a sliding scale—NOT FREE. At those same clinics you could get a bag of condoms TOTALLY FREE. Why is it not on the MRA agenda to reopen these clinics and give them funding again?

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

Good grief, nobody here has ever said free condoms are bad. If you want to have condoms covered, go for it. Fight for it. Seriously, I won’t stop you. Free condoms everywhere isn’t a bad idea. This isn’t a case of the meanie feminists trying to keep the rubbers away. Most (if not all, I’d say) of the people involved in running and giving care at Planned Parenthood clinics and others like it are feminists and in my experience, those people, aside from college and high school nurses, are the most inclined to give out free condoms.

If you’re pissed about less access to free condoms, you should be pissed at lawmakers trying to make budget cuts against Planned Parenthood. You should be mad at Sex Ed teachers who misinform students about condoms or don’t teach them how to use condoms properly. You should be pissed at check out clerks who give people the stink-eye for buying condoms.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“BC cost me $65 a month when I had no insurance. Plus the $250 it cost to see the doctor to get the prescription” That’s freaking expensive.

cloudiah
8 years ago

All that talk (which I started) about beer made me think about peeing:

Freitag
Freitag
8 years ago

Manly men smoke and drink and piss at the same time.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“If you’re pissed about less access to free condoms, you should be pissed at lawmakers trying to make budget cuts against Planned Parenthood”
It’s not so much about free condoms. I was just thinking that maybe it could be better with a general subsidy on all purchases, instead of either free if you happen to be in the right time and place or paying the full price.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

I found a website where you can buy condoms in bulk, costing $150 for 1000 condoms. If you’re having sex once a day, it works out to about $54 a year, which is much cheaper than the pill. They’re latex, though, so it could be more expensive if you have an allergy and have to buy another type. But I’m still in favor of helping more people get them at free or reduced costs to prevent STI transmission and pregnancy. Talacaris, you are preaching to the choir here, unless your real agenda is to complain about people with uteruses having access to affordable contraception.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I was just thinking that maybe it could be better with a general subsidy on all purchases, instead of either free if you happen to be in the right time and place or paying the full price.

The full price for a box of condoms still isn’t comparable to bc. Nice try. Funny how you’re not suggesting hormonal bc go over the counter and cheaper.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

NHS, people. All the cheap BC, other medications/equipment, and gauze you could ever want. It’s about £7.something per item and free under certain circumstances like chronic conditions, low income, children, old age, pregnancy, and you don’t have to pay for doctor’s appointments.

The only major problem we’ve run into is now we have to pay a lot for the care of old people with chronic conditions + complications. And Margaret Thatcher.

(And yes, I am biased towards the NHS. I like being alive.)

drst
drst
8 years ago

Also, $60 for a yearly supply of b/c?

Yeah where is this mythical place? I paid a $60 COPAY last week for one month’s supply. Jesus wept.

Also, talacaris, you’re ignoring rather blatantly that birth control used by women has multiple uses while condoms don’t. Condoms don’t treat endometriosis or PCOS. There are a ton of significant complications women live with that are addressed by using the various types of birth control available to them that have nothing to do with preventing pregnancy (the Pill is necessary for a lot of women with PCOS to ensure we might some day be able to get pregnant). A drug that lets me keep my ovaries intact? Should be fucking covered.

drst
drst
8 years ago

Best OKCupid profile ever.

*headtilt*

Was that some sort of neg? I’m assuming there’s some sort of implied “you’re a failure as a woman because you could never get a man because you’re such an angry feminist” in there, right?

Except, my quote would probably appeal to some other feminist Whedonites, which kind of invalidates the insult?

I’m confused.

Naira
Naira
8 years ago

Yeah…$60 for a year is way too low for hormonal BC. I buy one of the cheapest pills on the market at $9/month (full price, no applicable insurance to cover it). That works out to $108 a year.

At Planned Parenthood, my yearly check-up to get the prescription in the first place was about $150 (again, no applicable insurance). I was getting a DEAL, as far as I’ve seen.

So, that’s about $258 per year, or $21.50 a month.

I’d love to pay only $5 a month for the ‘script.

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

>>>If you’re having sex once a day

Oh Non-Existent Deity, I don’t think I could get anything done if I did that!

Naira
Naira
8 years ago

Also, I forgot to mention: I count myself fuckin’ lucky that I don’t react badly to the cheap stuff. I’m also glad that, in the end, I don’t need it for some serious medical issue. Were I to go off BC, my periods would probably just get a lot more erratic, probably heavier, and a good chance of some really sucky cramps.

It’s about as fun as chewing broken glass, but my life/fertility/long-term health are not threatened.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“Also, talacaris, you’re ignoring rather blatantly that birth control used by women has multiple uses while condoms don’t. Condoms don’t treat endometriosis or PCOS. There are a ton of significant complications women live with that are addressed by using the various types of birth control available to them that have nothing to do with preventing pregnancy (the Pill is necessary for a lot of women with PCOS to ensure we might some day be able to get pregnant). A drug that lets me keep my ovaries intact? Should be fucking covered.”

Of course. I haven’t said anything to the contrary, and of course hormonal b/c should be covered too.