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How to Get Downvoted on the Men’s Rights Subreddit, Sandra Fluke edition

If you ever have the desire to get yourself downvoted on the Men’s Rights subreddit, here’s one sure-fire strategy: Write a sensible comment suggesting that birth control benefits people with penises as much as people with vaginas.

Here are the two top replies to this comment:

I was going to point out some of the ironies inherent in Men’s Rightsers getting mad about women getting “free” birth control, but I suspect you can figure those out on your own.

This is why the so-called Men’s Rights movement is not so much a rights movement as a take-away-other-people’s-rights movement.

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Kakanian
Kakanian
8 years ago

Don’t they have those in Sweden already?

blitzgal
8 years ago

Haha, I see what you did there. But it’s a great point — just install urinals and say the toilets are for sitting. I always forget urinals, heh.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

I find upvotes and downvotes helpful for giving me an idea of how completely misguided the folks in r/mr are.

Hey jiggles, if you’re driving on a highway and freak out that everyone else is going the wrong way, there may be another explanation for your predicament.

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

@AIT: Um, when you promote hatespeech, I don’t care how many of you are saying it. Appeal to masses doesn’t make it right. Can’t make it right.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

The term “hatespeech” became irrelevant when its definition was expanded from “speech that incites violence” to “anything liberals find objectionable, including PUA blogs.”

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

Okay, dude, we’ll use your definition.

“Speech that incites violence.”

Yup, that’s the manosphere. As seen here many, many times.

It’s to your credit as an up-and-coming liar-of-note that you manage to ignore all that. Really. It’ll do your career good.

blitzgal
8 years ago

Rapey-Roissey claims that men should just keep sticking it in until she stops saying no. That is your PUA movement, bucko.

RubyHypatia
RubyHypatia
8 years ago

Men don’t have reproductive rights? Huh? Men can choose to wear a condom or get a vasectemy. Heck, some men soak their testicles in ice water to keep from impregnating a woman. So what if men don’t get to decide if the women they knock up get abortions or not? Women own their own bodies so it’s their decision.

Leely
Leely
8 years ago

The hormones in the Mirena are really low-dose and theoretically only have a topical effect in the uterus. This doesn’t always translate into the real world because some women are so sensitive to progestin that they’ll still get side effects even when it’s not in their bloodstream. I only had mild side effects in years of bc pill-taking (mostly decreased libido) and have none at all with the Mirena. I did have several weeks of bleeding when I first got it, but I haven’t had more than spotting in the 3 years since. Also, my gynecologist is of the opinion that monthly checking isn’t necessary because if it goes anywhere, I’ll notice.

I <3 my Mirena.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

Yup, that’s the manosphere.

What is it with you manginas and selective reading comprehension?

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

Wait, I’m sorry, did you move those goalposts? Yes, yes you did! And then you complain that I didn’t agree to that? Awww, you haz a sad because of all your hate!!!!

Hey, why are women’s IQs higher than men’s? Inconvenient Truth?

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

To recap the convo so far:

David: “….completely misguided the folks in r/mr are.”

AIT: “Hey jiggles, if you’re driving on a highway and freak out that everyone else is going the wrong way, there may be another explanation for your predicament.”

(appeal to masses)

Me: “@AIT: Um, when you promote hatespeech, I don’t care how many of you are saying it. Appeal to masses doesn’t make it right. Can’t make it right.”

AIT: The term “hatespeech” became irrelevant when its definition was expanded from “speech that incites violence” to “anything liberals find objectionable, including PUA blogs.”

RMR incites violence. (well, Redditors do. And get healthy upvotes. See David’s previous posts on this… the ones who tell men to ‘remove judges by any means necessary,’ etc.)

But it’s still so meaningless! EVEN WHEN WE USE YOUR OWN GODDAMN DEFINITION!!!

BECAUSE TELLING FOLKS TO RAPE ISN’T INCITING VIOLENCE IN YOUR WORLD!!!!

You are a sick, sick fuck.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

Dude, meds.

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

So, you maintain your position in the face of criticism.

How awesome that you think telling folks to rape and kill judges is super-cool awesome and you won’t be dissuaded from defending those guys!!!

Sharculese
8 years ago

Hey jiggles, if you’re driving on a highway and freak out that everyone else is going the wrong way, there may be another explanation for your predicament.

youve chosen to analogize a niche internet forum guided solely by cultural practice with highways, a public thing with explicitly set rules of operation because…

you’re dumb and don’t know how analogies work? idk help me out here.

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

*raping women and killing judges, that is.

Sharculese
8 years ago

What is it with you manginas and selective reading comprehension?

it’s probably more a function of your incompetent writing, hth

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Yeah, howard nailed it.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

I love how MRAs think they win when they get feminists angry.

Dudes. Any decent human being gets angry at rape advocacy. The fact that it doesn’t make you angry doesn’t make you the rational better man, it makes you almost pathologically self-centered.

pecunium
8 years ago

AIT: The term “hatespeech” became irrelevant when its definition was expanded from “speech that incites violence”

Which the MRM does (some even going to jail for it), so your little attempt to dodge the issue with a head bob and a pretense that it’s all “liberals gone mad with oversensistivity” is pointless.

On your terms, it’s still hate speech.

blitzgal
8 years ago

youve chosen to analogize a niche internet forum guided solely by cultural practice with highways, a public thing with explicitly set rules of operation because…

you’re dumb and don’t know how analogies work? idk help me out here.

🙂

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

I mean, his argument boils down to this:

BECAUSE you call incitement to rape incitement to violence–

THEREFORE when the RMR crowd incites other kinds of violence, it’s meaningless.

Bam. Boom. That’s his whole argument.

It starts from hating women enough to call inciting rape ‘non-violent’, and proceeds to protecting those who incite violence against, y’know, men of the wrong thinking persuasion.

Oh so eloquent and well reasoned.

drst
drst
8 years ago

I love how MRAs think they win when they get feminists angry.

To quote a certain summer movie, “I’m always angry.”

It’s kind of my default setting. So it’s not a particular victory to get me angry. Because, to employ another cliche, “if you ain’t angry, you ain’t payin attention”

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

But then condoms are also preventative care (both preventing pregnancy and STD with only minor annoyances). So why should they not be covered?

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

But then condoms are also preventative care (both preventing pregnancy and STD with only minor annoyances). So why should they not be covered?

It would be good if they were covered by insurance, because they are so cheap and prevent both STI’s and pregnancy. In some states, Medicaid pays for condoms, but not all. Planned Parenthood offices offer free condoms and so do some other organizations.

The trick is convincing more people to use them, but that’s hard with sex education teachers lying and saying they have giant holes in them. That’s what they taught in my sex ed, that condoms are useless in preventing STI transmission and pregnancy because they have huge holes. So if students believe they’re ineffective, why would they want to use them? So not only are schools lying to students, they are discouraging them from using condoms when they do decide to have sex.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

I actually pretty much ignore your gossipy complaining natterings and try to have an adult conversation with David.

LOLLERSKATES! How’s that working out for you?

As for birth control, I’m all for dudes having more options that are more akin to the options women have. I know morons like AntZ think Zombie Betty Fredain (and thus all current, non-zombie feminists) will fight to the death to limit men’s reproductive choices, but it’s just not true. Thinking we don’t want more birth control options for men is silly and seems like some pretty fierce projection. Not everyone is a small minded asshole who has “as long as it hurts THEM” cutting off the nose to spite the face logic. Even from a purely selfish perspective, it makes no sense for men to be against women getting better access to birth control unless they literally want to make babies every time they have sex. Seriously dudes, if you want to be having sex with women, but don’t want to be making babies, you should be clamoring just as hard for free birth control as feminists do. Otherwise it’s either not having any (waaahhhh! The poor incels!) or getting stuck with child support. And we all know how MRAs feel about those options. Not that better access to birth control is any guarantee they’d get laid anyway, considering the fact that being a blatant douchebag is generally unattractive, which I suspect is what pisses them off about trying to get better access to begin with. I suspect a lot of sour grapes in this, they’re pissed off that women can control their bodies AND get to decide if/when/who they fuck.

EEB
EEB
8 years ago

Chiming it on the IUD question:

I tried the Mirena. I have long, severely painful periods (PCOS and endometriosis) and after a couple of months with the IUD, I no longer had periods and I really didn’t have an side-effects, either. Loved it, figured I had finally found the solution to my problems–until it decided to go on a little trip and puncture my uterus. After nearly hemmoraging to death, I’m not allowed to have another one. 🙁

I was on Lupron for six months (you do not want to try that unless your only other solution is a hysterectomy…INSTANT menopause, with horrible night sweats, mood swings, hot flashes, yuck) and then my doc started pushing me to consider a hysterectomy because I was ending up in the ER once a month or so to deal with ruptured cysts and extreme pain from the endo (we think).

Got a second opinion, because I was 25 and haven’t had a kid yet so I didn’t want to have the hysterectomy unless there was no other option. The new doc was a young woman from Philidelphia (I’m in San Francisco) and she recommended Implanon, says everyone uses it on the East Coast, but no one has even heard of it out here. I certainly had never heard of it. Five minutes to insert it in the office (and while there was a little pinch, it was NOTHING compared to how painful the IUD insertion was), and it’s been pretty great. I did bleed for about four months off and on, but I haven’t had a period in a while, now, and the pain is gone. Again, no real side effects that I can tell, maybe a little grumpiness. Oh, and I have heard people say it kills their sex drive, but I was functionally asexual before I got the Implanon, so I can’t really speak to that,

Sharculese
8 years ago

But then condoms are also preventative care (both preventing pregnancy and STD with only minor annoyances). So why should they not be covered?

because nobody wants to move to a system where you fill out an insurance claim every time you buy a pack of condoms.

Major Kong
Major Kong
8 years ago

“Don’t they have those in Sweden already?”

It’s Europe. No two toilets work the same way over there.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

“because nobody wants to move to a system where you fill out an insurance claim every time you buy a pack of condoms.”

Why not just sending in the receipts, or sending a claim once a year and then you can pick up your condoms when you like.

“Don’t they have those in Sweden already?”

It’s Europe. No two toilets work the same way over there.

Yes of course there are functioning urinals. Personally I think it is bad manners to stand up at other people’s home toilets if you are not sure it won’t spray.

Sharculese
8 years ago

Why not just sending in the receipts, or sending a claim once a year and then you can pick up your condoms when you like.

yeah and we can do the same for toothpaste, because that’s preventative care, right?

barriers to condom access are real and they are a problem, but theyre not symmetrical with barriers to birth control access in a way that makes what youre proposing an effective or necessary solution

Polliwog
8 years ago

But then condoms are also preventative care (both preventing pregnancy and STD with only minor annoyances). So why should they not be covered?

Because they are OTC, and insurance doesn’t cover OTC items. Very few people find “I don’t have to take off work and go to the doctor and pay a co-pay and endure a really embarrassing and sometimes painful physical examination in order to use these, I can just go to a gas station or a drugstore and buy them whenever I feel like it” to be a downside, y’know?

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

because nobody wants to move to a system where you fill out an insurance claim every time you buy a pack of condoms.

What about a system where you pay insurance through your taxes and get both preventative and curative health services free at point of use without having to fill in claims forms – oh, and it is possible for teens to get condoms on the NHS if they wish?
They’re just not very nice condoms.

*smug British*

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

So why should hormonal methods be covered but not condoms, and why don’t you think the barriers are symmetrical. Don’t you think economy is not a factor in condom use? Maybe some people would prefer to use condoms but have to go with hormonal methods because of economical reasons ( with resulting increased,risks of STDs hormonal side effects)

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

If you have insurance and enroll in a flex account, you can use your flex account money to buy condoms and spermicides. At least then you are using pre-tax money for your purchase. So if your deadline is almost up and you have some money left, go stock up on condoms and whatever other drugstore items you need, like sunscreen or OTC drugs. You can also use flexible account money for copays and deductibles.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
8 years ago

I actually wouldn’t mind it if condoms were covered, or at least subsidized, by health insurance. But thins you can get at the grocery store != medication that requires a prescription and which my doctor is telling me I need to come in and get a pap smear before they’ll give me more of. (For reference, I’m away at college until Thanksgiving weekend.) Also, condoms are something where the more sex you have the more you use, unlike bc pills, so you might run into problems about how many you are allowed to use.

Speaking of colleges and condoms, the one I attend has condom bowls in the bathrooms of all the dorms along with instructions for how to make a dental dam, but you aren’t supposed to take more than 1 or 2. My cousin attends a college where you get in trouble if they catch you having sex (it is Pepperdine College, for reference).

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

I have no problem with people having easier access to free condoms. Planned Parenthood offices provide them already, so the best way to help people get condoms is to support PP either financially or politically. It also helps to speak up to our elected officials and school boards and demand that schools use evidence based, comprehensive sex education rather than the abstinence only sex ed propaganda. But as far as access to birth control goes, it is already much easier to get condoms. The bigger battle here is making sure people can get the pill, IUDs, or any other type of prescription only contraception.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
8 years ago

Although it might actually be better to say that condoms vs the pill and other methods of birth control are kind of like aspirin vs. prescription pain killers–nobody says that since asprin and tylenol aren’t covered by insurance that vicodin shouldn’t be, either.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

bionicmommy:

If you have insurance and enroll in a flex account, you can use your flex account money to buy condoms and spermicides. At least then you are using pre-tax money for your purchase. So if your deadline is almost up and you have some money left, go stock up on condoms and whatever other drugstore items you need, like sunscreen or OTC drugs. You can also use flexible account money for copays and deductibles.

Co-pay and deductibles are still covered with flex pay, but OTC anything isn’t unless you get a script for it. That’s a new rule, and it blows.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Talacaris, you’re just being cute, but you don’t have to go to the doctor’s to get condoms, that’s why the barriers aren’t symmetrical. Jesus.

Sharculese
8 years ago

and why don’t you think the barriers are symmetrical

as has already been pointed out, because condoms don’t require a prescription, are vastly cheaper, can be and are literally given away for free, and are available from the same store that will sell you beef jerky by the pound.

Don’t you think economy is not a factor in condom use?

i don’t think i ever said it wasn’t? are you sure you read what i wrote?

Maybe some people would prefer to use condoms but have to go with hormonal methods because of economical reasons

i guess it’s poooooosssssible that somebody somewhere is forced for economic reasons to use birth control instead of condoms (maybe the nearest place that sells condoms is like way far away?) but i don’t tend to set policy based on remote and unprovable speculation.

Sharculese
8 years ago

also a lot of barriers to condom access involve social stigma that you can’t really fix by subsidizing them, only by changing people’s attitudes about sex and condoms

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

condoms … are available from the same store that will sell you beef jerky by the pound.

I feel like these are concepts that need to be merged (in the unlikely event they haven’t already).

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

Now I checked the prices.For adults a yearly pill subscribtion seems to cost around SEK 300- 400 ($45 -60) (source fass.se) while a yearly condom usage , calculated on 1 intercourse /day will cost around SEK 2000($ 300) (source rfsu.se, 60-pack). So I think economy is a barrier to condom usage.

An Inconvenient Truth
An Inconvenient Truth
8 years ago

I love how MRAs think they win when they get feminists angry.

Winning is secondary to the entertainment value of a feminist tantrum. This is especially true with manginas whose spastic, caps locked nerd rage is a delight to behold. Sadly, despite all their white knighting efforts, these chumps couldn’t get laid in a women’s prison with a fistful of pardons.

To quote a certain summer movie, “I’m always angry.”

It’s kind of my default setting. So it’s not a particular victory to get me angry. Because, to employ another cliche, “if you ain’t angry, you ain’t payin attention”

Best OKCupid profile ever.

Polliwog
8 years ago

i guess it’s poooooosssssible that somebody somewhere is forced for economic reasons to use birth control instead of condoms (maybe the nearest place that sells condoms is like way far away?) but i don’t tend to set policy based on remote and unprovable speculation.

Given that Amazon sells condoms (and at rather good prices, too), it’d have to be somebody who does not have access to any form of postal service. So, I guess if you do not have access to mail, but DO have health insurance and access to gynecologists and pharmacies (special condom-free pharmacies, obviously), that could totally be a relevant problem!

Sharculese
8 years ago

Now I checked the prices.For adults a yearly pill subscribtion seems to cost around SEK 300- 400 ($45 -60) (source fass.se) while a yearly condom usage , calculated on 1 intercourse /day will cost around SEK 2000($ 300) (source rfsu.se, 60-pack). So I think economy is a barrier to condom usage.

do you have any evidence-based justification for using for going with sex once per day as your baseline or did you just decide you were gonna baldly game the parameters and pray nobody called you on it?

Sharculese
8 years ago

Winning is secondary to the entertainment value of a feminist tantrum. This is especially true with manginas whose spastic, caps locked nerd rage is a delight to behold. Sadly, despite all their white knighting efforts, these chumps couldn’t get laid in a women’s prison with a fistful of pardons.

i have never seen one of you dudes just come out and admit you were a stupid child looking for attention before.

the honesty is kind of refreshing.

Gametime
8 years ago

Winning is secondary to the entertainment value of a feminist tantrum. This is especially true with manginas whose spastic, caps locked nerd rage is a delight to behold. Sadly, despite all their white knighting efforts, these chumps couldn’t get laid in a women’s prison with a fistful of pardons.

“I’m better than you because I hate women and also you probably don’t have sex!”

Yeah, bro, you’re a shining example of the staggering intellects the MRM has to offer.

Sharculese
8 years ago

Yeah, bro, you’re a shining example of the staggering intellects the MRM has to offer.

it’s also kind of funny coming from the dude who shows up just to remind us he’s still furious about puas getting made fun of.