Complementarian Loners, a relationship blog of sorts run by two kinky but reactionary Catholics (and which I’ve written about before), describes itself as “primarily a blog of ideas.” The main idea seems to be that women are awful, worthless creatures. Surprisingly, it is CL, the female half of the blogging team, who is often the most vociferous on this point.
In a post unironically titled “Tits or GTFO (a.k.a. How Women Ruin Everything),” CL defends the regular harassment women face when entering – sorry, “invading” – “male spaces” online. As she writes:
Too many women will waltz in and expect to engage everyone, with no sense that perhaps they should just hang back once they’ve had their say if they even have it. They talk and talk and talk, derailing conversations, going off-topic usually to talk about themselves, until all that’s left is a room full of clucking hens and all the smart guys eventually get fed up and leave.
They want to be considered equals yet prove they do not deserve it both by showing that what they really want is to be up on that pedestal and that they are incapable of rational thought.
I have to confess that I have never actually seen this happening in any “male space” online, though I’ve seen numerous female spaces invaded and overrun by blabby mansplainy guys, often of the MRA persuasion. That’s certainly happened often enough on Reddit, where virtually every woman-centric subreddit from TwoXChromosome to Feminism has been rendered almost useless for discussion, a process depicted symbolically in the gif below.
Meanwhile, over at the “male spaces,” women are all too often shut down and/or run off by obnoxious dudes calling them bitches and worse and demanding nude pictures. CL, for her part, finds this all rather wonderful, and suggests puckishly that Complementarian Loners might well adopt a similar “policy” to deal with gals who won’t stop disagreeing with her shut up.
There’s a reason the only people we have banned on this blog are women and a couple of manginas. These people don’t know when to shut up and have no sense that they’re wearing out the welcome mat – also known as being entitled. … I’ve lost whatever patience I had for it and I don’t like to see insightful comments lost in the kerfuffle of women clamouring for validation.
So, perhaps a new policy for women should be, since they refuse to apologise or drop anything, tits or GTFO.
Sure, that might be seen as demeaning. But these women are asking for it through their behavior:
If a woman is making no sense and adding nothing to the discussion, while making it all about her, defending other women, being a special snowflake and NOT wanting to learn anything, she is a liability and worthless in that forum, so she has reduced her worth to only sexual. Therefore, she should just be sexual and show her tits to show she has something to offer.
Really? Because I’ve run across a lot of awful guys online who continually say things that make no sense, and I’ve never once thought that this “reduces their worth to only sexual.” I think it just means they are incoherent assholes with terrible, terrible ideas.
But no, in CL’s mind, women bring this sexual harassment onto themselves. Not only that, but the harassment is good for them:
Men do not do this to women; women do it to themselves. Due [to] their lame, banal talking, they show they are only good for sex. Showing her tits is a humbling and reminds her of her worth. With any hope, it makes her think and realise that in order to be more than a sexual object, she must STFU or prove herself able to be rational.
CL, your argument here isn’t exactly, you know, rational to begin with; you’re essentially demanding that the women you disagree with transform themselves into people who are irrational in the same way that you are.
I am embarrassed for my sex. It makes me cringe to see how they ruin everything once they get their claws in, and how little they really seem to care for men and male spaces. We all want our own spaces free of drama. Perhaps they don’t realise that it is they who create all the drama, but apparently this is what women seem to want.
Yeah, it’s not like angry dudes online are ever known to conjure drama out of thin air (*cough*avoiceformen*cough*).
Of course, when those poor MRAs start having fits over nothing, we need to remember that the poor babies have been treated so badly by the ladies of the world:
Women need to understand that MRAs and MGTOWs are disgruntled, angry, and frustrated with good reason … These are men who have loved, and their anger is proportional to the love of which they are capable.
Well, that’s your theory. My theory is that, by and large, they’re a bunch of entitled assholes.
In the end, CL brings it all back to one famous naughty lady and her love of apples:
If only women would stop this fight. If only women would submit to male leadership and stop this urge to control everything. Alas, it seems unlikely that most will ever be able to see, but it is sad how bad things have gotten, how cursed the world is, by dint of the daughters of Eve and our disobedience.
That’s right: Because Eve bit an apple, it’s fine to sexually harass women online when you don’t like what they say.
Of course, CL is perfectly fine with offline harassment as well. In the comments, she laments that fact that dudes can’t call a woman a “whore” in a bar these days without that woman getting mad, and suggests that women working in male arenas – sorry, women “playing at being construction workers or what have you” – just learn to appreciate this sort of “jocular speech” from the fellows.
Blessed are the sexual harassers, because women talk too much.
She’s an embarrassment to the female gender. – Ruby
*Cough*
She’s not the only embarrassment, Ruby. Looked in a mirror lately?
On the whole female misogynist thing: I grew up in a family that had a marked element of woman-hating, and I’d say that 90% of that came from the female members (myself included). It wasn’t based on penis envy, it was mostly a way of congratulating ourselves on how superior we were compared to rest of the female hoard. “She’s a bitch – I just speak my mind forcefully!” “That girl is a slut – I’m very selective about who sees me naked!” We had a lot of pride in our awesomeness. We assumed that men were also bowled over by how special we were. It was a satisfying mindset, but perplexing as well. Why, if I as so superior, did I attract boys who didn’t listen to me and expected constant attention and affirmation? Why was I getting used and dumped just like all the stupid girls?
I didn’t realize until I’d been out on my own for a while that being so critical of my gender didn’t make me some epitome of honest womanhood. It made me a jerk. And the constant lady misogyny seemed to stem from a deep lack of self-confidence, which in return attracted guys who wanted to exploit it. I’m glad I got that wake-up call. It’s obvious that CL never did (though I was never as derogatory or belittling as she is – ugh).
Pfft. The latest buzz is how the Kenyan Usurper used Hurricane Isaac to make Clint Eastwood yell at a chair. You know, they actually got President Barack HUSSAR Obama to sit in that chair, and he was looking mighty sheepish, but the LIEberal Media edited him out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussar
Barack Obama is cavalry?
Dvärghundspossen | September 7, 2012 at 2:29 am
@Linds. Thanks! Maybe I read sloppily, because I just saw some people writing that the teachings their church gave them were “Lilith-free”, and I was like “well, that’s not surprising”. I missed out that there was a Jewish person in the discussion.
Since I made that comment, I’ll clarify – I was first taught about Adam & Eve in Catholic school, where no mention of Lilith was made. And when I was six. Since then I’ve read other takes on this story and it’s symbology, including the Nag Hamadi gospels,in which Eve have a more active role and in some passages an almost Trickster-like personality, never mind the serpent!
It really reflects so greatly on our species when in 2012 a story in a more that likely fictional book is still used to justify hating women.
I really dont like to talk religion, I understand people have their beliefs and if women like CL want to believe their role is to be submissive to men is their own choice. But fucking keep it to yourself. Women are not obliged to do the same, nor will we revoke our rights or keep our mouths shut when MRAs call for this shit that sound creepily similar to segregation. Believe what you want, defer to the men in your life, and leave the rest of us out of it.
I dont label myself an athiest because there is no way of knowing, but I’m 99% sure the story of Eve is just that and the misogyny in religion and women’s special sin is one of the main reasons I’m not religious and don’t let it dictate my life. Nor should it be forced to dictate other people’s lives against their will. This is why the Christian manosphere is more disturbing then the rest of it.
Dude. NO.
Please please do not compare hating your assigned gender to being trans, they are NOT the same. If you have a problem with your gender being the opposite gender will SOLVE NOTHING.
Undergoing transition is a long and draining process, there is no reason cis people who have issue with their gender should do so when they do not even identify as that gender. It will NOT make her happy, no one should be forced to live as a gender they do not identify as. Misogynist are misogynists whatever gender they ID as, undergoing transition will not sure that or make them hate women less.
You are misunderstanding and minimizing the struggles of trans people so please take what you said back.
*will not make them hate women ess
@Rutee: Some people certainly treat him like he’s the First Horseman.
But no, not a typo. I was mocking how people tend to hit his middle name like it’s a big indictment or a gotcha or something (He says he’s Christian! But his middle name is Hussein! Wake up, sheeple!), and Hussar was the thing that sounded best.
@Fitzy, that seems pretty common. I’ve met many women over the years who go on and on about how terrible women are – although they obviously make an exception of themselves. I’ve also thought that hating on your own gender is a way to feel a little bit better about yourself, paradoxically enough – NOT being terrible DESPITE being a member of a generally terrible gender makes you SO awesome!
I’ve not encountered this phenomenon in the specifically religious variety – few people in Sweden identify as christians, so you don’t bump into them very often. I was active in a baptist church as a teen, but they weren’t misogynistic. They would talk about how HUMANITY chose sin and to turn away from God rather than pointing out women specifically. However, there’s this really common secular version of being a misogynistic woman, where you go on and on about how women
– always trash talk each other, unlike men, who are open and friendly to each other
– are hypocritical and dishonest, unlike men, who are honest and say what they mean
– are jealous and competitive, unlike men, who support each other
– can’t stand the awesomeness of the speaker, and don’t want to be friends with her (how come? It’s as incomprehensible as black people who don’t want to hang out with KKK members), unlike men, who loves her company.
I hate this and always call such people out on their bullshit.
Falconer: I originally read what you typed as “huzzah” (not sure if that’s what you meant originally 😛 ), like Barack Huzzah! Obama. Like he’s some sort of wizard or something.
Barack Obama casts Mindless Rage on Republican. Republican fails will save, is enraged.
ftfy
Calm Emotions! Calm Emotions! Oh gawd, I’m casting Calm Emotions!! It’s that or Plane Shift!
My goodness I hate catholics. “acts of the apostasy” is another ignorant but hysterical misogynist catholic blog that could use a take-down.
All catholics? There are lots of asshat catholics, There are lots of non-asshat catholics. The former tend to get more airplay.
I’d say this one wasn’t an asshat, but he got ignored.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cardinal-carlo-maria-martini-his-final-interview-and-a-damning-critique-that-has-rocked-the–catholic-church-8101498.html
@ Dvärghundspossen – The end of your comment sounds like the shit I used to spout before I got my big, fat, fresh awakening. How on earth did you get into my house in1996? 🙂
@Sharculese
Yoink!
I agree with pecunium (and RIP, Cardinal Martini).
Ayla, my in-laws are Catholic. My MIL grew up in Yugoslavia with old-school, mortification of the flesh style Catholicism. She is one of the most kick-ass women you will ever meet. She left an abusive husband, immigrated to the U.S. with three kids and not a word of English, bought a house, and has worked every day of her life. She is kind and generous, and even when she’s driving me crazy I still want to give her a hug. She’s a daily communicant. She says her rosary every night. She argues with priests and tells my daughter to never take any crap from anyone, male or female.
If I’d left out all the stuff about her devotion to the church, you’d probably think she was a right-on kind of gal. But she’s definitely Catholic.
Just something to think about.
Where is this and how do I join????
Anyone who issues a damning indictment from the grave is clearly a stone-cold badass.
There is no excuse for voluntarily being a member of what is essentially a child rape gang. None. Zero. Zilch.
Ok ayla. Fuck off. Because I was being polite before. Trying to avoid taking it personally.
I am one of those “members of what is essentially a child rape gang.”* You could say the same thing about the US House of Representatives (google “congressional pages” and then look at the very recent cases of abuse that went on in that vein in the past couple of years). There is more to the church than just that event.
So you think I’m evil. Got it. You also don’t give a shit that there are people (such as Cardinal Martini, and others) who worked against that aspect of it. People like Cardinal Romero, people who believe this is a good prayer.
It helps, now and then, to step back and take a long view.
The kingdom is not only beyond our efforts,
it is even beyond our vision.
We accomplish in our lifetime only a tiny fraction
of the magnificent enterprise that is God’s work.
Nothing we do is complete, which is a way of saying
that the kingdom always lies beyond us.
No statement says all that could be said.
No prayer fully expresses our faith.
No confession brings perfection.
No pastoral visit brings wholeness.
No program accomplishes the church’s mission.
No set of goals and objectives includes everything.
This is what we are about.
We plant the seeds that one day will grow.
We water seeds already planted,
knowing that they hold future promise.
We lay foundations that will need further development.
We provide yeast that produces far beyond our capabilities.
We cannot do everything, and there is a sense of liberation
in realizing that. This enables us to do something,
and to do it very well. It may be incomplete,
but it is a beginning, a step along the way,
an opportunity for the Lord’s grace to enter and do the rest.
We may never see the end results, but that is the difference
between the master builder and the worker.
We are workers, not master builders; ministers, not messiahs.
We are prophets of a future not our own.
You want perfection… don’t look to any work of human beings. You want to condemn millions of people, go ahead, be a bigot.
*I considered becoming a Jesuit, as was Cardinal Martini… because of men like him. Because I can’t accept the doctrinal aspects of Ex cathedra I didn’t. But that’s neither here nor there, nor am I willing to share any more than that with you.
Ayla, I know that I shouldn’t bite – but seriously? Every Catholic in the world is responsible for those crimes? Including the parents who trusted their children to those monsters?
I hang the blame on the predators who took advantage of their position of power and of the trust of their parishioners. And on a corrupt system that allowed these creatures to flourish and that covered for them over and over again.
There have been some revelations about repeated child sexual abuse among the Boy Scouts, too. Are all scouts and troop leaders damned by association?
You are totally right that there is no excuse for molesting a child.
There is also no profit in condemning a whole group of people by association, either.