Complementarian Loners, a relationship blog of sorts run by two kinky but reactionary Catholics (and which I’ve written about before), describes itself as “primarily a blog of ideas.” The main idea seems to be that women are awful, worthless creatures. Surprisingly, it is CL, the female half of the blogging team, who is often the most vociferous on this point.
In a post unironically titled “Tits or GTFO (a.k.a. How Women Ruin Everything),” CL defends the regular harassment women face when entering – sorry, “invading” – “male spaces” online. As she writes:
Too many women will waltz in and expect to engage everyone, with no sense that perhaps they should just hang back once they’ve had their say if they even have it. They talk and talk and talk, derailing conversations, going off-topic usually to talk about themselves, until all that’s left is a room full of clucking hens and all the smart guys eventually get fed up and leave.
They want to be considered equals yet prove they do not deserve it both by showing that what they really want is to be up on that pedestal and that they are incapable of rational thought.
I have to confess that I have never actually seen this happening in any “male space” online, though I’ve seen numerous female spaces invaded and overrun by blabby mansplainy guys, often of the MRA persuasion. That’s certainly happened often enough on Reddit, where virtually every woman-centric subreddit from TwoXChromosome to Feminism has been rendered almost useless for discussion, a process depicted symbolically in the gif below.
Meanwhile, over at the “male spaces,” women are all too often shut down and/or run off by obnoxious dudes calling them bitches and worse and demanding nude pictures. CL, for her part, finds this all rather wonderful, and suggests puckishly that Complementarian Loners might well adopt a similar “policy” to deal with gals who won’t stop disagreeing with her shut up.
There’s a reason the only people we have banned on this blog are women and a couple of manginas. These people don’t know when to shut up and have no sense that they’re wearing out the welcome mat – also known as being entitled. … I’ve lost whatever patience I had for it and I don’t like to see insightful comments lost in the kerfuffle of women clamouring for validation.
So, perhaps a new policy for women should be, since they refuse to apologise or drop anything, tits or GTFO.
Sure, that might be seen as demeaning. But these women are asking for it through their behavior:
If a woman is making no sense and adding nothing to the discussion, while making it all about her, defending other women, being a special snowflake and NOT wanting to learn anything, she is a liability and worthless in that forum, so she has reduced her worth to only sexual. Therefore, she should just be sexual and show her tits to show she has something to offer.
Really? Because I’ve run across a lot of awful guys online who continually say things that make no sense, and I’ve never once thought that this “reduces their worth to only sexual.” I think it just means they are incoherent assholes with terrible, terrible ideas.
But no, in CL’s mind, women bring this sexual harassment onto themselves. Not only that, but the harassment is good for them:
Men do not do this to women; women do it to themselves. Due [to] their lame, banal talking, they show they are only good for sex. Showing her tits is a humbling and reminds her of her worth. With any hope, it makes her think and realise that in order to be more than a sexual object, she must STFU or prove herself able to be rational.
CL, your argument here isn’t exactly, you know, rational to begin with; you’re essentially demanding that the women you disagree with transform themselves into people who are irrational in the same way that you are.
I am embarrassed for my sex. It makes me cringe to see how they ruin everything once they get their claws in, and how little they really seem to care for men and male spaces. We all want our own spaces free of drama. Perhaps they don’t realise that it is they who create all the drama, but apparently this is what women seem to want.
Yeah, it’s not like angry dudes online are ever known to conjure drama out of thin air (*cough*avoiceformen*cough*).
Of course, when those poor MRAs start having fits over nothing, we need to remember that the poor babies have been treated so badly by the ladies of the world:
Women need to understand that MRAs and MGTOWs are disgruntled, angry, and frustrated with good reason … These are men who have loved, and their anger is proportional to the love of which they are capable.
Well, that’s your theory. My theory is that, by and large, they’re a bunch of entitled assholes.
In the end, CL brings it all back to one famous naughty lady and her love of apples:
If only women would stop this fight. If only women would submit to male leadership and stop this urge to control everything. Alas, it seems unlikely that most will ever be able to see, but it is sad how bad things have gotten, how cursed the world is, by dint of the daughters of Eve and our disobedience.
That’s right: Because Eve bit an apple, it’s fine to sexually harass women online when you don’t like what they say.
Of course, CL is perfectly fine with offline harassment as well. In the comments, she laments that fact that dudes can’t call a woman a “whore” in a bar these days without that woman getting mad, and suggests that women working in male arenas – sorry, women “playing at being construction workers or what have you” – just learn to appreciate this sort of “jocular speech” from the fellows.
Blessed are the sexual harassers, because women talk too much.
This.
Also, regarding Eve and the apple, I can trace my feminism directly back to learning this story in early Sunday school. I still remember how devastated I felt when I realized that *I* was to blame for all the bad things in the world. There were other issues that came along later, like realizing that my mother worked all day, then came home and worked all for us all night, usually not getting off her feet until 9PM or later. While my dad would come home from work and plop his ass in front of the television, only leaving his chair to eat dinner.
Yet, if a woman does come into a forum with tits on display, she is just an (attention) whore.
I have definitely seen drama trolls, but it is definitely not something primarily populated by one gender.
Wow, another self-loathing woman coming from a religious background. Who woulda thunk it.
Hey CL, it’s way easier to see my tits by being polite and asking than by demanding them like an entitled ass.
Definitely definitely definitely definitely
Also, drama llamas.
We can has edit function, plz!? (easier said than done, I know)
Also, do I sense a tiny bit of sapphism? A hint of the isle of Lesbos, shall we say? Not a whole lot of straight girls want to see a bunch of other girls’ breasts…
Damn but I wish these people would just embrace their kinks already.
I like this lady’s idea. From now on, when men show up here to babble and cluck in their tedious, silly male way, shedding the masculine charm that comes with silence and acting like they haven’t noticed their female betters are talking, we should demand that they stop trying to have a conversation and post sexy photos of themselves instead.
(Note to MRAs: This was sarcasm. I do not actually want men to be excluded from conversations on the basis of their sex. But I do want to see your sexy, sexy chestal regions.)
@blitzgal
I think I was lucky. I learned about Lilith and the myriad interpretations of the Eve story alongside actually learning the original. There’s so much discussion about the meanings behind biblical stories that I can’t imagine why people ever just take them at face value.
I believe that idea has been shot down because it’s nice to know that the MRAs and etc. can’t go back and edit their words to pretend that they didn’t say something that they totally said.
I still remember how devastated I felt when I realized that *I* was to blame for all the bad things in the world.
@blitzgal – I remember feeling the same way about that story (Catholic school taught a Lilith-free version) till I learned to simply embrace being what they found fearful, with their truncated Ialdabaothian spirituality – it was pretty gnostic 😉
As for CL, gee, a Catholic woman full of internalized misogyny and self-loathing urging women to be repressed, and maybe unwittingly demonstrating said repression with a fixation on women showing their tits and only being good for sex. And as of this morning, water was still wet. The only thing I can’t read like a book (“but the book is boring me”-Emilie Autumn) is that if she feels women are so incapable of adding anything to a conversation, why is she pontificating on and on?
Shaenon: But I don’t want to see Owlyslave’s chestal regions! Either I won’t find it attractive, in which case meh, or I will find it attractive, in which case EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
this. based on CLs last foray here i dont know what to say about her except that she’s a small minded bully who’s outraged that everyone else isnt the same sort of small-minded bully she is.
and of course, she’s too much of a coward to admit it, so she hides it behind this sort of weasel behavior. even compared to a lot of the other assholes youve covered she’s seriously as nasty piece of work.
@opium4
ftfy
These people are freaks. They participate on Dalrock a lot.
Right now someone named “Deti”, who they all adore, is explaining the imaginary “Pair Bonding” on Dalrock – a very strange & intense man, who says he has a “contingency plan” if & when his wife files for divorce. It makes me really afraid for his wife & children.
MRAs talk to much. Also, working in predominately male environments, I can attest that men also create needless drama for themselves. And of course I’m always the shoulder to cry on. Sheesh! >.>
After the big fight on reddit and twitter avoer some dude sending photos of his penis followed by a lot of his supporters sharing pictures of their penises in solidarity, I’d personally rather see breasts. They’re a hell of a lot more attractive, and less likely to be attached to MRAs.
I’m going to admit….I like penises. Yeah, they can be funny when they are flopping around, but I still like them.
What does CL consider a male space? Is that any space already occupied by men? Because all workplaces, public places, and most forums on the internet, etc. are not male spaces. This isn’t a female space. Men don’t need women’s permission to be here. (It sounds ridiculous to even point that out.)
It sounds like she’s one of those people who thinks society is men, and the only place women are entitled to be is at home.
Oh totally, this was just my seven or eight year old self reacting to my spiritual community telling me that I’m shit by virtue of my sex. That’s actually a pretty warped thing to be telling kids, if you think about it. When I was older, I got sassy. I was the one who would ask the teacher where the dinosaurs fit in, and where Cain’s wife came from. Yup, I was THAT KID, lol. Then I went on to college where I read everything I could get my hands on, including the entire Bible. Now I’m agnostic/leaning towards atheist.
What Every Woman Must Not Say
“I don’t pretend I’m clever,” he remarked, “or very wise,”
And at this she murmured, “Really,” with the right polite surprise.
“But women,” he continued, “I must own I understand;
Women are a contradiction—honorable and underhand—
Constant as the star Polaris, yet as changeable as Fate,
Always flying what they long for, always seeking what they hate.”
“Don’t you think,” began the lady, but he cut her short: “I see
That you take it personally—women always do,” said he.
“You will pardon me for saying every woman is the same,
Always greedy for approval, always sensitive to blame;
Sweet and passionate are women; weak in mind, though strong in soul;
Even you admit, I fancy, that they have no self-control?”
“No, I don’t admit they haven’t,” said the patient lady then,
“Or they could not sit and listen to the nonsense talked by men.”
–Alice Duer Miller, continuing to be good for everything.
Shaenon:
Don’t forget about pelvic cleavage photos, those are really sexy. In an effort to make myself interact more like a man (as explained by CL), I will henceforth assume that a man has nothing of value to tell me unless he shows me his sexy bits. And those bits better BE sexy.
Incidentally, does CL display her boobs?
(That was sarcasm, too.)
@blitzgal, honestly, I think that’s when I started to become more atheist and feminist. Learning that women had to give birth because God was punishing ALL women for Eve’s little slip up? Guy sounded a little too much like someone who just enjoyed punishing people for punishment’s sake.
I was fortunate that my mom was a pretty liberal Catholic, and when I asked her about it her response was just “oh honey, those books were written by a bunch of old men who lived thousands of years ago. There’s more in the Bible that you can’t take seriously than things you can.”
Oh don’t worry about it. If you don’t find those bits sexy, you can just disregard everything he has to say.
@ostara321 @blitzgal: I honestly thought it was an excuse for men to control women =P