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MGTOWer: Raise girls to be farmers to keep them from becoming whores

The ideal woman?

Let’s say you’re a dude who thinks that All Women Are Like That, except possibly for two or three of them. Let’s say you think women today are the equivalent of rattlesnakes, or unexploded grenades, or hungry, hungry alligators. Let’s say that you think marrying a woman “is like playing Russian Roulette with a fucking Gatling gun and hoping that the one that might actually hit you is a blank.”  Let’s say you think that women are

Hypergamous

Materialistic

unfaithful

almost Bi Polar like mood swings

entitled

completely self serving

histrionic

parasitic

hard wired for alpha cock

Let’s say you’re a dude who thinks all (or most, or even some) of these things, yet somehow you’ve ended up with a young daughter – one of these horrible , histrionic, parasitic, alpha-cock-loving, rattlesnake-grenade-alligator-gatling-gun creatures in embryo. How might you raise her so as to minimize the chances that she’ll blow dudes up and inject them with venom?

Well, worry not, gentle misogynist, for Der Igel on MGTOWforums.com has an answer for you: raise her to be a farmer.

I do not have children, but if I had daughters I would take them camping and fishing, take them to a farm or slaughterhouse to see where their food comes from, punish them with the same commensurate severity as sons, and expect them to take on the same age-appropriate responsibilities as sons. In short, I would do anything to avoid the princess mentality (dolls ok, but no freaking Barbie dolls). I would not treat them like they need special protection that a boy the same age would not need.

It might be tough, though, because female humans are biologically wired to be dirty moneygrubbing whores:

However one must probably also recognize that once puberty hits, biology is going to take over, and that *in certain areas* the term AWALT [All Women Are Like That] applies. Women are always going to be more social animals, will always be resource and status oriented, will always treat sex as a means and not an end, etc.

Still, for the sake of ALL HUMANITY, in particular for all those dudes who might want to get with your daughter, you must persevere, and keep your eyes on the prize. That prize being a daughter well-equipped for agricultural work.

My goal would be to produce the mentality of some kind of educated yet hard-working modern farmer woman, rather than that of a princess-in-waiting.

Just make sure to keep her away from traveling salesmen.

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Sharculese
9 years ago

And what’s worse, the actual Hobbit is only going to be one of the movies. The other two are going to be shit they made up that isn’t in any of the books at all.

in theory i don’t have a problem with this. i think some of it was inevitable anyway, because yes it’s not going to be a problem for hardcore lotr fans that gandalf’s presence isn’t particularly well explained, but casual film goers probably need a little more context, so you put in the meeting of the white council and then you have to wrap that up, so you include the storming of dol guldur as well. and for that matter id love to see some of the other stuff that’s happening off screen. i mean just because tolkien didnt write it all out doesnt mean there isnt a ton that we knows happens canonically and it doesnt bother me to include that stuff.

howardbann1ster
9 years ago

I’m not really a big fan of Tolkien to begin with, so I was less incensed by the dwarf-tossing. What Peter Jackson often does is get a little self-indulgent. He lingers, and abandons pacing for the sheer enjoyment of his favorite parts.

When it works, it works very well, and I skate breezily along on the ice behind King Kong, sighing in wonder.

When it does not work, then the giant insects just keep on coming and I writhe and shiver and wonder how the hell I’m going to survive this movie.

So, to take a movie that can be quite adequately done in two hours, and stretch it out to… nine hours, roughly? Oh, yes, I’m scared.

Sharculese
9 years ago

okay i lost the end of my comment, but to continue, i reality i realize that yes, the shit jackson chooses to add is mostly going to be dross.

cloudiah
9 years ago

Speaking of Hobbit/LOTR, this is pretty adorable. Someone already bought his fiery balrog.

howardbann1ster
9 years ago

The other movie that has me worried is Man of Steel. Zach Snyder…? Um. Yeah.

We worry because we care.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

3 movies, mostly composed of stuff that isn’t even in the books? Oh dear. I hope it’s not going to be a repeat of the never-ending, time-to-go-to-the-bathroom Helms Deep experience.

katz
9 years ago

It’s not that I have an inherent objection to fleshing out the parts of the story that we don’t actually see (like the other wizards in Gandalf’s order), but Jackson is not the person to do it.

EEB
EEB
9 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen

Okay, I can see that, especially now that it’s not two in the morning, here. On reflection: I guess they are both saying the same thing, just attributing different motivations towards women. Also, while the one guy seems to think women are biologically wired to be whores (note: I’m not in any way intending to slur actual sex workers; I’m trying to understand the writer’s mindset), the patriarchal group I grew up in denied women had any sex drive at all–like you said, it was a love drive. But I think this guy would say that any talk of how women don’t want sex, they want love (which is just as much patriarchal bullshit as girls don’t want sex, they want shiny things) would be considered feminazi crap, because obviously women aren’t capable of those higher emotions. Two really harmful messages about female sexuality (that, once again, completely leave out lesbians), but they don’t mesh at all. I’m realizing this is a common attitude with MRAs of the non-religious variety, though (been spending some time in the manboobz archive)…I just had never encountered that type of MRA before.

Sharculese
9 years ago

@katz

okay then were on the same page

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
9 years ago

I didn’t watch any of the LoTR films. I’ve read the books so many times and I have my own clear visuals of the major characters (Faramir looks strangely similar to my beloved) and I didn’t like the way they looked in the films at all. (The Vulcan ears on the elves was one of many competing deal-breakers; so was the way Elrond looked.) But nothing I heard about it made me want to see it, nothing at all.

And three books from The Hobbit, or mostly not-The Hobbit? Blech. I’m not wild about that book at all but oy, that sucks.

Doctor Who, now … I may watch the new series (Amy’s final) when it starts on Saturday. Not wild about this Doctor, I liked Tennant much better, and Amy annoys the crap out of me. I don’t much like the way they’ve taken River, when I think back to what she was like in Silence in the Library.

Hey, anyone here know Foyle’s War? I’m rewatching it and it was fun seeing David Tennant and Sophia Myles (Mme de Pompadour in Girl in the Fireplace) in the same episode – alas, their characters never met. 🙂

ithiliana
ithiliana
9 years ago

Re: Hobbit film. Disc: I love the Jackson films with a nearly unholy passion, and taught myself film studies so I could write papers about them, and adaptation issues. I saw FoTR 45 times before it left the theatres (could only get to TT 33 times, and RoTK 18–was getting busier with teaching and writing about Tolkien then).

That said, I fell in love with Hobbit trailer, and am already working on a paper on the film, that has several tentative titles (or, it might be, several papers):

TWO HOBBITS (there was the first hobbit from September 21, 1937 up to when FoTR was released and the RETCONNING began; then there was the SECOND Hobbit).

“Little did we know: Tolkien Great Retconner or Greatest Retconner!”

Here’s a link to my dreamwidth link where I babble about what in the appendices seems to be making it into the film:

http://ithiliana.dreamwidth.org/1622156.html

Tolkien never even planned to publish THE HOBBIT (one of his women students, gave it to another woman who worked at a publisher).

That said, he never intended to write a sequel; when the publisher demanded more about HOBBITS (popular demand), he tried to give them some version of the SILMARILLION materials (which he could never organize enough to publish himself). The reader at Unwin and Alleyn said, um, interesting, but no thanks!

He then started to write “more about hobbits”–it took from 1938 to the fifties (FOTR published in I think 55) to write it–and in the midst of one of the most fascinating processes (manuscript excerpts published and commented on by Christopher in the 14 volume HISTORY OF MIDDLE-EARTH), he retconned Gollum, the Ring, and Chapter 5 “Riddles in the Dark.” He sent the revised chapter to his publisher, and the printed it (I’m hazy on whether he wanted that, or it was a coincidence).

He wanted to include the SILMARILLION with LOTR (but not only did his British publisher turn him down, his letter to an American publisher wasn’t read, or not in time). The Appendices in LOTR were the unhappy compromise.

So, yes, THE HOBBIT as a stand alone tale is in one genre.

But THE HOBBIT as part of the larger Legendarium which in some ways we still don’t all have (since the family and estate still have original stuff to publish) is different–and I think that like inserting the direct narrative of Gandalf and Saruman’s conflict into LOTR instead of just having Gandalf tell the story at the Council of Elrond (40 pages, brilliant stuff, but a 40 page long committee meeting), we’ll see the White Council (at Rivendell); we’ll see more about the Elves in Mirkwood and whether or not the’re with the Rivendell Elves (lots of conflict in history of interactions between different Elves–I am DUBIOUS about the Elf Captain of the Guard who is there for possibly romantic interest with Kili or Fili, possibly for dwarf humor, sigh). We’ll see, I think, Gandalf at Dol Guldur and in Moria — and his meeting with Thorin’s father where he got the map.

*wibbles happily*

I am hoping, strongly hoping, that with the focus on the Dwarves that it will be showing a lot more of their history and culture and not having the comic interest of Gimli (which, I kind of understand, but let’s just say it’s not my favorite part of the film).

katz
9 years ago

And by papers you mean blogging?

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

I can’t watch the latest Doctor Who. Matt Smith looks so much like one of my exes, I keep expecting him to be an asshole all over the place.

katz
9 years ago

^Oh dear.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
9 years ago

@hellkell
I find Matt Smith to be very endearing, but I guess memories and all that.

I clicked on the link about “gatling guns” whilst on my phone. I didn’t realise it was to their actual forum and they tried to sell me their app.
I want to dunk my phone in a bucket of boiling water now… get the icky off…

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
9 years ago

I’m a kitty!

I just wanted to say that, even though I am so late to the party that any spark of coolness I might have possessed can never be redeemed. 🙂

Sharculese
9 years ago

TWO HOBBITS (there was the first hobbit from September 21, 1937 up to when FoTR was released and the RETCONNING began; then there was the SECOND Hobbit).

“Little did we know: Tolkien Great Retconner or Greatest Retconner!”

i was introduced to the hobbit through my dad’s 50s era paperback when tolkien still had the references to gnomes in there, a thing that puzzled me for a long time

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
9 years ago

I’m a kitty!

I just wanted to say that, even though I am so late to the party that any spark of coolness I might have possessed can never be redeemed.

Being a kitty is ALWAYS cool. There is no uncoolness about kittiness evah. And time only matters to kitties when it’s preceded by words like dinner- or nap-.

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
9 years ago

By papers Ithilana means papers, like the one she published in Picturing Tolkien.

http://www.amazon.com/Picturing-Tolkien-Essays-Jacksons-Trilogy/dp/0786446366

tasblacksmith
tasblacksmith
9 years ago

If anybody asks I’m not sat in front of the computer when I should be making like an oversized dwarf from the iron hills and working in the forge. However if we are on the subject of LoTR films I loved the attention to detail in the design of the props. Particularly the wrought iron work and wood carving, I believe that a lot of it was the real thing, that is actual forged metal, not resin or plastic. Very much what I love to do when the chance comes up (people who will pay for such fancies are few and far between).
Having said that I loved the books and the lack of Tom Bombadil in the films soured it a bit for me.

tcwill00
tcwill00
9 years ago

Naq jura qvq gurl yrnea gb ghea uhznaf vagb Qnyrxf naljnl?

Qniebf jnf qbvat vg jnnnnl onpx va Eriryngvba bs gur Qnyrxf.

To be honest I am much more worried about Moffat’s apparently impending embrace of the Quiverfull movement.

Say what? Fb abj n jbzna orvat hcfrg gung fur pna’g unir xvqf naq yrggvat ure cnegare tb orpnhfr fur guvaxf ur’yy or unccvre jvgu fbzrbar jub pna, vf rdhny be nccebnpuvat n zbirzrag gung vf nyzbfg yvgrenyyl onersbbg naq certanag?

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
9 years ago

Is there some trick to posting in ROT13? Every time I make a post, wordpress eats it

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
9 years ago

I would have liked Tom Bombadil too, but he’d be awfully hard to get right and I’d rather they not do him than do him badly.

I do know that Beorn will be in The Hobbit – it looked doubtful for a while and I was getting worried, but the part has been cast.

tcwill00
tcwill00
9 years ago

@Sharculese: Gnomes in the hobbit? I don’t even think my folks’ ancient copy mentioned those. I have grown intrigued. What were the gnomes doing?

tcwill00
tcwill00
9 years ago

Is there some trick to posting in ROT13? Every time I make a post, wordpress eats it

Hmmm… looks like you’re flipping your wand wrong at the end of the incantation.

(Seriously, I just copy and paste, no code needed! It’s not like blockquotes.)

katz
9 years ago

Cool as Tom Bombadil is, his relationship to the rest of the LotR mythos is complex enough that it couldn’t really be worked into a movie without feeling like a big-lipped alligator moment.

However, if one decides to cut Tom Bombadil, one really must figure out a better source of armament than “Aragorn just carries around four hobbit-sized swords at all times.”

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
9 years ago

Crap, it did it again. Maybe I used a word that triggered the filter

V yvxr evpr

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
9 years ago

Evpr vf avpr!

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
9 years ago

So which word is the troll-y one? Let’s try

Gurer unir orra Qnyrx-Uhzna uloevqf tbvat onpx gb Eriryngvba bs gur Qnyrxf va gur zvq 1980f (ceb gvc: qb abg jngpu Eriryngvba bs gur Qnyrxf. Lbh pna’g trg lbhe gvzr onpx).

Gur Qnyrx chccrgf jrer vagrerfgvat – onfvpnyyl na hcqngr bs gur Ebobzra sebz Qnyrx Vainfvba bs Rnegu be gur ercyvpnagf sebz Erfheerpgvba bs gur Qnyrxf. Gur rlrfgnyx guvat’f n ovg anss, gubhtu.

Naq gubhtu vg unq vgf qbqtl ovgf, V yvxrq gur haqreylvat vqrn – n unhagrq ubhfr shyy bs mbzovr Qnyrxf.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
9 years ago

Nope. Can’t figure it out, and I’m probably clogging up the troll filter. You’ll all just have to do without my insights

Sharculese
9 years ago

Cool as Tom Bombadil is, his relationship to the rest of the LotR mythos is complex enough that it couldn’t really be worked into a movie without feeling like a big-lipped alligator moment.

yeah, this. you pretty much have to cut something, and tom bombadil is the least relevant to the greater narrative.

Falconer
9 years ago

@Sir Bods —

Naq gubhtu vg unq vgf qbqtl ovgf, V yvxrq gur haqreylvat vqrn – n unhagrq ubhfr shyy bs mbzovr Qnyrxf.

Gur bar fcvaavat va cynpr sbe nyy rgreavgl jnf sernxl.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
9 years ago

Now that’s sounding just ruuuude … in Hispano-Cyrillic, maybe. 😀

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
9 years ago

@ Falconer – Yeah. Brrr.

drst
drst
9 years ago

The other movie that has me worried is Man of Steel. Zach Snyder…? Um. Yeah.

Yeah, I hate Snyder with a fiery passion. That movie is going to need to get wondrous reviews for me to step into a theater.

ithiliana
ithiliana
9 years ago

@Katz

Nope. Imean academic essays in peer reviewed journals & anthologies. Under my offline name which i don’t use here.

Dvärghundspossen
9 years ago

@EEB: I wonder how an argument between “women-only-want-love”-sexists and “women-only-want-money”-sexists would turn out?

Re the hobbit: I was really shocked at first on hearing that they’re gonna turn this LITTLE book into THREE movies. But apparently they’re gonna fill it up with stuff from other Tolkien books and backstory, so… might work I guess… we’ll have to wait and see. And oh, Beorn is played by a Swedish actor, Mikael Persbrandt. 🙂 He usually plays action hero, but he’s done serious stuff too.

Re Steve Moffat and women… Have anybody seen the British sitcom “Coupling”? The fourth and last season was weaker, but the first three seasons were pretty hilarious, DESPITE having lots of sexist stereotypes. Like women enjoy home-styling while men just can’t comprehend the concept, in a relationship the woman will push for marriage while the guy doesn’t want to commit on that level, and all guys are crazy for lesbian porn. Such tired stereotypes and yet the plots were so hilarious that me and husband couldn’t help but enjoying it… HOWEVER, one good thing one could say about the show’s portrayal of women is that at least it wasn’t slut-shaming. Susan, the main character’s girlfriend, was portrayed as Good and Normal and contrasted against his crazy ex. There was also a joke in one show about how she masturbated so much that she continuously had to buy new batteries for all her vibrators, and another show about how she’d slept with half of Australia when she was there on holiday with a friend (before current boyfriend). BUT she was still the Normal Good Girl, so high libido and sluttiness wasn’t treated like a character flaw. One good point in the sea of sexism.
And btw, Susan was apparently based on Steve Moffat’s wife, so yep, he has seen a woman “in the wild”. Maybe his wife simply is a pretty stereotypical woman…

M Dubz
9 years ago

Re: Dr. Who; I am actually a huge fan of Amy (she ties for first with Donna, or maybe Donna is slightly ahead). I really appreciate her willingness to call the Doctor on his bullshit, and that Moffat actually lets her solve puzzles before the Doctor does. I’m also a huge fan of her and Rory’s relationship, and how they really seem like a team in a way that Rose and Mickey never were, even when they were nominally dating. That being said, her pregnancy story lines (and the unending nature thereof) are definitely squicky.

Also, the current Doctor is, in my head, Evil Doctor. He pulls some seriously unethical stuff (for example, the episode with Old Amy).

M Dubz
9 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen- re: sex for love and sex for money MRA’s, I think they can both agree that women are just exploiting men for their sexy sexy resources, whether emotional or financial.

Also, Coupling is HILARIOUS

Polliwog
9 years ago

Oh, Coupling is hilarious. Jeff is my favorite, both because he’s the funniest and because Richard Coyle is yummy.

Magpie
Magpie
9 years ago

The Giggle Loop.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
9 years ago

@tcwill00

I may have been a tad hyperbolic for comedic effect, but Amy did literally spend the last series barefoot and pregnant! Also, last years Christmas episode with the magic super-wombs or whatever that shit was.

@MDubz

Someone mentioned to me the other day that Moffat’s version of a ‘strong woman’ is to make a normal Moffat woman and make all the men around her weak and stupid (ZOMG MISANDRY!!1). From what I can see, that’s all that Amy is. Hence Rory’s default state of wimpy twit and why she (on one or two occasions) has been able to solve things before The Doctor – the only time I really remember this happening was her second episode (space whale), and she’d been set up as ‘sexy/feisty’ in the first (I hated her from the second I saw her in the police uniform, she’s always just appeared to me to be fanservice to basically ‘apologise’ for Catherine Tate, and NOBODY apologises for Doctor Donna).

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
9 years ago

Donna is awesome, my favorite companion of the new series. As for the old series, so hard to choose… Barbara, Vicki, Zoe, Liz, Jo, Sarah, Leelah, the Romanas, Nyssa, Ace…

As for now, though, what would be awesome would be a show runner with the Moff’s skill with plotting and Uncle Rusty’s sense of character.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
9 years ago

@Bodsworth

Definitely. A cyberman Moff suit with a Rusty human core 😉

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
9 years ago

Barbara was special. I’ve only seen a couple of the first Doctor’s programs, and while the shows themselves didn’t grab me too much (or the first Doctor himself) it was a pleasure to see a woman companion who was mature, intelligent, educated and competent!

Of the Doctors themselves, I think my favourite would be Jon Pertwee. Much as I like David Tennant, I prefer an older Doctor, and Jon Pertwee’s had a very appealing ability to express compassion as well as doing all the hero stuff.

Plus his velvet coats and Bessie were the best.

And there was the Brigadier. Loved Lethbridge-Stewart!

M Dubz
9 years ago

@thenatfantastic- I don’t buy Rory’s characterization as a “wimpy twit.” I think he started out that way, but I think he’s grown into a character of immense personal courage and supportiveness (which seems to be the arc that male companions take in general. I wish some of them started as badass). As for characterizations of Amy as merely “fiesty,” she figured out part of the puzzle in the most recent episode, and I feel like she really understands the Doctor as flying by the seat of his pants, which not all companions do (esp. Rose and Martha).

That being said, you are right. Nobody apologizes for DoctorDonna.

Falconer
9 years ago

@The Kittehs’ Unpaid Help: Barbara ran over a Dalek with a lorry, once. It would have been better if she had been the science teacher and Ian the history teacher, but I’m not complaining.

Falconer
9 years ago

Hey, who mentioned Foyle’s War? I watched it, and I found my reactions to it to be mixed. Some of the stories weren’t interesting, others were. I spotted David Tennant but not Mme de Pompadour. Did you spot Pat Troughton’s son, David?

Also, there’s Doc Martin with Martin Clunes, whose early career involved a major role in the Davidson-era episode Snakedance, and Ian McNeice, who played Churchill in “Victory of the Daleks.”

A weaker contender is Kingdom, with Stephen Fry. I spotted Colin Baker in one episode as one of Kingdom’s clients.

And Peter Davidson has The Last Detective, of which I haven’t seen much, but I am reliably informed that it’s good.

Leely
Leely
9 years ago

Re: Coupling

Every once in a while, the phrase “wouldn’t want it turn into a vegetarian spank inferno” occurs to me. And then I get weird looks because I’m laughing in not-necessarily-appropriate places.

ithiliana
ithiliana
9 years ago

TABLACKSMITH: the attention to the material world was incredible (Jackson said he was focusing on creating the sense of history which meant that a lot of the spiritual was left out – -so much of that in the novel is shown through internal point of view, often Frodo’s, that it would be difficult to show–thus the “fail” with the White Tree).

I think one thing that made me fall in love was noticing on the third or fourth viewing of FoTR that every Dwarf Lord’s armor was differently styled and decorated, just for a quick shot of them taking their rings.

Wow. THAT is beautiful.