So over on the Men’s Rights subreddit – you know, the old one, not its newfangled would-be replacement – the fellas are complaining about how oppressive it is for a university to put up signs suggesting that consent is good and rape is bad.
Clearly, these signs are an insult to non-rapist men, in the same way that “don’t feed the animals” signs in zoos are an insult to those of us who aren’t planning to feed the animals.
Happily, the dude calling himself anti-everyone has come up with a way to fight back against this feminazi tyranny:
Is the Poster Revolution moving to its next stage?
That’s some pretty fallacious reasoning, NWO, even for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
This. This wounded, accused attitude would be a deal-breaker for me. I mean … why isn’t he angry about rape? Why doesn’t it anger him that there are men (and yes, women, but we’re talkng about male rapists here) who do this, who make these campaigns necessary? Why is his reaction “You’re calling ME a rapist!” instead of “Rapists are arseholes!”
This reminds me of the jealous boyfriend who constantly accuses his girlfriend of cheating…because he is cheating on her. Pathetic.
Fixed that for Owly.
Yes. It’s a rape joke.
Pretty much my default reaction to Some Schtick With A Stonerwithaboner Or Whatever His Face Is.
On Topic: where did all these catvatars come from?
Freitag’s kitties on the bed reminded me of this:
http://cheezburger.com/1917850368
This report out of the UK shows suicide rates in England and Wales from 1860-2007 broken down by gender. While men consistently have a higher suicide rate the suicide rate for men has dropped significantly, with the lowest rates all being post-WWII. http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/06/02/ije.dyq094.full
So in other words: NWO is full of shit (as usual)
By the way I used the report from the UK as it had the longest time frame, best I could find for the US is this one for 1950-2005 which shows fairly steady rates over 55 years with male and female suicide rates going up and down pretty much in sync. http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/unitstates.pdf
“Consent is sexy” is basically the least confrontational poster ever. I’ve actually read articles critiquing it for that reason. Sometimes the process of good consent is not sexy! Sometimes it leads to not-sex! Sometimes you might have less sex if you make sure your partner wants to have sex with you, but you should still make sure that your partner wants to have sex with you.
So basically if you object to that… man.
The core MRA belief seems to be that men should be able to do anything they want to women, and any attempt to limit what men are legally allowed or socially permitted to do to women is an attack on their rights as men.
Once you realize that their attitude towards rape, domestic violence, etc makes a lot more sense. Depressing, alarming, something-is-very-wrong-with-these-people sense.
@Cassandra
Just examine this quote from NWO (I have heard the same concept reiterated by many MRAs):
The implication is that women are not born with inalienable rights, indeed, we depend on men to teach us our humanity, and through that dependence we are deemed worthy of human rights. Without men, we are animals, and deserve to be treated as such.
How nice.
I feel like we’ve talked about this a million times here, but these dudes’ model of sex is not that they need to seek consent or approval from their female partners but merely “not obviously objecting”. Because women don’t even really enjoy sex or want it, right?? so there’s no difference between consensual sex and not-very-consensual sex. Also that is what women are FOR, sexing, so women always secretly want it because they have boobs and vaginas and stuff and making it apparent in any way that you might have those means you want sex from a dude (even if you are saying “no”). A woman’s default state is “available for sex” so who cares if she looks happy and into you or whatever??? It’s like a woman’s sex/gender has already consented for her– she gets no actual input in the process.
You can explain a great deal of rape apologism just by the fact that this mentality is pretty commonly lurking underneath the surface.
And men not getting sex when they want it, from the women they want it from, that is opression and misandry. Because women aren’t people. They’re property, or commodities to be hoarded and guarded, like gasoline. Women are for sex and babiez. Period.
It pisses me off to hear these MRA/PUA types refer to “pussy” as though it isn’t attached to a woman. Roosh’s recent blog post was titled “Pussy exists in a state of equilibrium.” And on the Spearhead forum I read “Men must communize the cunt.” And I’ve heard some men say “I’m looking for some pussy.” And so on. No wonder they forget that women own their own bodies. They’re so used to talking about “pussy” like it’s air or water.
Wait, don’t the Spearhead people hate communism?
(At this point I am no longer surprised by their talking about women’s body parts as if they’re not attached to people.)
@ Cassandra
No matter how many times I hear it, it still angers me.
Doesn’t make me angry any more, mostly because I’ve decided not to allow them to upset me (it used to make me very scared when men talked like that, as a teenager). Mostly it makes me wish that they’d say those same things irl too, or maybe make their thoughts into a tshirt and wear it all the time, thus making them easily identifiable to women so that we can avoid them.
RE: Suicide statistics- I have noticed that suicide levels sharply fall when a person owns a dog or cat and/or has meaningful relationships with other human beings. Obviously, this does not mean said person would stop being depressed altogether (as depression is a life-long mental illness that needs support, therapy and sometimes also medication), but it tends to reduce the risk of suicide. Traditionally, in patriarchal societies where men are expected not to show emotion (other than anger/violence), and are actively encouraged by society to only form an emotional bond with a spouse (if anyone at all), the male suicide rate is quite hight indeed. This is because women’s roles in patriarchal society tend to be relational, and most women are encouraged to develop deep, meaningful emotional relationships with many people in their lives due to caregiver roles and sheer “safety in numbers” survival tactics for living within a strict patriarchy (also, female non-sexual relationships are considered “safe” because all opposite sex relations are expected to have some sexual element to them).
So, really, a society in which patriarchy is minimized or destroyed altogether is probably a society in which men would benefit incredibly because the patriarchal ideals of “strong silent male who does not express himself or create deep meaningful relationships with multiple people” would be destroyed.
To be honest, I think that most of this bullshit about feminism causing suicide comes from men who have internalized a shitload of “boys don’t cry” patriarchal bullshit and take solace in the fact that even though they’re suffering and it hurts like hell to have no meaningful connections with other people (except for perhaps one’s female sex objects, which ostensibly they’re jealous of for being able to make meaningful connections with lots of people without being ostracized).
I think that is one of the worst things about MRAs. Not only do they honestly hate being stuck under the patriarchal “boys don’t cry” bullshit, but they actively ATTACK those who don’t tow the line of patriarchal gender roles because even though they hate living it, they still feel superior for “following the rules” and gaining the social power and entitlement from it.
…and they’ve devised a whole vocabulary of insults to describe people who don’t conform to their rules.
I remember the first time I was called a mangina. Initially, I didn’t have a clue what he meant, and then when I parsed it I thought “so you’re essentially saying that I’m someone who believes in treating women like decent human beings, and you genuinely think that’s an insult?”
And the really stupid thing is that these people often seem desperately unhappy – and yet they’re repeatedly rejecting courses of action that might improve their lives. They think it’s easier just to blame everything on women, which is true in the short term – but absolutely not when looking further ahead.
@Kladle, fembot, Cassandra – exactly: their attitude is that we’re malfunctioning sexbots (makes me think of Westworld. Anyone remember that?) who owe everything to men and should obey them in everything, always … even when they’re being totally contradictory. Because we should know what they want without them ever having to strain their poor inarticulate selves to say so (this being the same poor inarticulate selves who are responsible for ALL great literature and science and art and younameit).
Kladle, I’d be amazed if everyone here hadn’t discussed it a zillion times already – apologies for newbiness in that. It’s a relief to be able to say it about men with this attitude and not get howled down or tut-tutted or looked at sidelong while “Man hater!” thought bubbles form over the viewer’s head.
The thing is, if we’re supposedly the malfunctioning ones, then why do so many of us have a long and happy history of successful relationships, while so few of them do?
(Obviously this is a rhetorical question.)
Rhetorical, very good and with absolutely NO chance of getting an intelligent answer from any of ’em! 😀
I know! But I suppose if you’re dealing with people who genuinely can’t get their head around the notion that men and women can even like each other (at least not without some ulterior motive), that explains why they have such difficulty grasping what to the rest of us seems such a simple point.
A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I woke up early, and we just lay in bed for three hours snuggling together and chatting about everything under the sun – it was brilliant. And yet I can imagine misogynists finding this behavior completely incomprehensible: “You talked to a woman? You had a normal conversation? For three hours? And you were naked at the time and didn’t try to have sex with her?” Baffling, I know.
(With regard to the last point, I daresay we could have done, but we woke up early in the first place because it was a sweltering heatwave and we just didn’t fancy it.)
oh no apologies needed, I was just acknowledging that it’s certainly not any original idea of mine & that I might be boring the regulars who have written about that attitude over and over (literally written essays about it on their own blogs in some cases XD)
it really is. part of instilling patriarchal nonsense into anybody’s head is gaslighting them into thinking that having any objection to it (or even articulating what is going on) makes them crazy or weird or that they must have ulterior motives or whatever. it is always nice to find spaces where this won’t happen & where people know exactly what is going on and can say “no, fuck you. you are not going to lie to me and you are not going to tell me how I feel”.
@Wetherby
Is your name indicative of where you might have been at the time of said sweltering heatwave? I’ve spent a fair amount of time in Wetherby and environs and can’t imagine it ever getting above 30!
You’re absolutely right about it being too hot for sex last weekend, though, especially over on the continent. And that thing about being in a relationship with someone you actually like as a human being wasn’t too far off either.
The Rave Police are much better (and real*).
(*For a given value of real. I saw them at a festival last month, it’s quite amusing. Especially when they set up just in front of the police cabin.)