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Splitsville! Paul Elam starts a rival Men’s Rights subreddit, where he can ban people

It was, perhaps, inevitable, and now it has come to pass: obviously fed up with Men’s Rights Redditors questioning his wisdom (and his tactics, and his general narcissistic assholery) on a fairly regular basis, A Voice for Men Supreme Leader Paul Elam has started up his own Men’s Rights subredditr/mensrightsactivists –in which he can summarily ban all ”armchair activists” and “white knights” and “people who disagree with him.” Yep, that’s right: he’s made like a Trotskyist banana, and split.

Elam has long had a fairly strained relationship with Reddit MRAs. If you search through his comment history on Reddit, you can see evidence of numerous meltdowns on his part, which occur fairly regularly whenever anyone challenges him on pretty much anything, even when they are otherwise sympathetic to his views. On his own blog, he responds to such criticism by quickly banning the critics; on Reddit, he has tended to respond with schoolyard insults, digs at the masculinity of his critics, long recitations of his many fine accomplishments as a dedicated armchair activist, and the occasional rape joke.

Clearly the final straw for Elam was the reception given to a post of his on the poster controversy I wrote about here.  Some samples from the discussion. Builtbro offers a substantive critique of Elam’s badly worded posters:

HolyCounsel is a bit more blunt:

And then there’s this edifying exchange:

The massive numbers of upvotes for Elam’s critics and downvotes for his, er, rebuttals seem to be at least partially the result of an invasion from r/SubredditDrama. Still, Elam seems to take each and every downvote personally, so the 238 net downvotes on his “Kleenex” comment must have stung.

In his new subreddit, threads like these clearly won’t be allowed to happen. As Elam explains in his less-than-welcoming “Welcome” message to new visitors:

While dissenters and the blue pill public will be welcome to post links and comment, trolls and other annoyances will be summarily booted with pleasure. This is an MRA dominated zone.

A couple of things to consider: Dissent, especially that which serves to further the improvement of the men’s movement, is welcome and appreciated. But if you want to post here, as a supposed MRA, telling others what is wrong with their work, you better have some MRA credentials.

Inactive, armchair quarterbacks, are not allowed here, unless their posts reflect genuine concern for improving and supporting the MRM and respect for those actually doing the work. If you want to ask questions so that you can learn, that is fine. But if you want to question, just so you can tear down, and you are not an MRA, then it will be adios for you. I’d sooner give a feminist the floor than a back seat driver.

R/mensrightsactivists: Come for the Elam-approved opinions, stay for the bans! Indeed, Elam devotes as much space in his “welcome” message to explaining whom he’ll ban as he does to actually spelling out what the subreddit will ostensibly do differently than good old r/mensrights.

Of course, this is not the first time that some angry MRA or two has decided to start another Men’s Rights subreddit designed to appeal to more, well, belligerent  MRAs. Reddit already boasts an assortment of such subreddits, all of them fairly sparsely populated, including Rights4Men, Male Studies, and FeMRAs, a more obnoxious alternative to the already sparsely populated LadyMRAs. There’s even another subreddit devoted to MRA activism; it goes by the name of, well, MRAactivism. (There may be several more, but I can’t remember what they’re called.)

The Men’s Rights subreddit has nearly 45,000 subscribers; Elam’s new subreddit currently has 49, which is no doubt why he continues to post links to his blog in the original Men’s Rights subreddit. Whether Elam’s new subreddit succeeds and splits the MRM in two, or dies an inglorious death, one thing is sure: there will be plenty of new material for me here at Man Boobz.

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DLZ
DLZ
8 years ago

You must have some real balls on you, Dave. Calling out the guy who soundly made you look like a fool in that little debate the two of you had awhile back.

Though, I guess this isn’t really calling him out. More like making a few passive aggressive remarks from the safety of where no one will ever see it. So, business as usual, I guess.

blitzgal
8 years ago

You must have some real balls on you, Dave. Calling out the guy who soundly made you look like a fool in that little debate the two of you had awhile back.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

ozymandias42
8 years ago

If no one would ever see it… how come you saw it? o.o

Also Dave totally kicked his ass in that debate.

katz
8 years ago

Blitzgal: If she dies, she’s a woman in a refrigerator, but I’m not sure if there’s a general term (other than plot device).

God help anyone who’s trying to figure out what this thread is about.

Sharculese
8 years ago

I said a minute ago that Lisbeth steals the story, making it her own, and I dropped in (as it should be). Then I realized any troll would immediately say I’m saying all stories should be about the women in them, not about the dudes.

yeah, but if we moderated what we said based on the shit trolls would make up about it, we’d almost never say anthing

it’s called the girl with the dragon tattoo not the dude with the libel conviction

Sharculese
8 years ago

Though, I guess this isn’t really calling him out. More like making a few passive aggressive remarks from the safety of where no one will ever see it. So, business as usual, I guess.

it’s actually more like making fun of the dude who stormed off in a childish huff because he couldnt take being crticized on reddit, but nobody expects you to be good at understanding things, champ

leftwingfox
8 years ago

I’d blame the kitty icon for being distracted by sparkly anime while the conversation thread drifted to Stieg Larsson… but that’s usual for me. =/

blitzgal
8 years ago

Blitzgal: If she dies, she’s a woman in a refrigerator, but I’m not sure if there’s a general term (other than plot device).

We need to make one! It happens so often, and goes back extremely far. Just about any “chivalric” story that you can name features this kind of character, although in those the “lust” they inspired was the totally respectful and chaste kind. I just started saying MPDG. Yeah, I knew about woman in a fridge from comics.

katz
8 years ago

it’s called the girl with the dragon tattoo not the dude with the libel conviction

The Guy Who Hangs Out With The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo

jumbofisch
8 years ago

okay, this comes on the heel of many other recs. At this point, I think I need to check this out.

Haha you really should! I finally decided to check it out after I saw a review of it and the fact that a bunch of people I know recommended it. I have been enjoying it a lot so hopefully you will as well.

While I found the darker themes of the first series more captivating, I think Brotherhood ultimately works a better as a whole. The original went to such a dark place that reaching for anything resembling a happy ending was bound to feel like a stretch.

I will probably end up checking brotherhood out after I am finished with the original. I was really surprised it was that dark but I sorta like it that way.

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

You must have some real balls on you, Dave. Calling out the guy who soundly made you look like a fool in that little debate the two of you had awhile back.

Damn, ya’ll just love to play make believe, don’t ya?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

@DLZ

It’s kind of hilarious that you’d even call telling horrible people to be less horrible a “debate.” It’s like, women are people, and will continue to be people, and advocating violence against women is wrong, and it’s not really something you can “debate.” If it was possible to change your minds through factual argument, you would have dropped the “boys rule, girls drool” routine when you were 6 years old.

That’s why this site is the only feminist site to even engage with MRA material. and basically all we can do is let you say stupid things, and then laugh at you.

katz
8 years ago

Ugh, where is your kitty?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

It’s like, any conversation with Paul Elam would go “It’s wrong to advocate for rapists.” Then he’d say a bunch of arglebargle about misandry, Then you’d again say that it’s wrong to advocate for rapists. Nothing you could say would make it okay to advocate for rapists.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

I guess I should get around to it! Although I’m actual more of a bird fan, myself, and kittens are kind of the antithesis.

katz
8 years ago

Well, you should get a bird then.

katz
8 years ago

Bird avatar, that is.

cloudiah
8 years ago

from the safety of where no one will ever see it

As a person who has a niche blog that is only of interest to manboobzers (or the fans of manboobzers), I have to say this is hilarious. David mentions my blog in a post on Sunday, and this is what happens:

Views Sunday: 563
Views Monday: 1464
Views (so far) today: 282
All time views: 2974
Previous high # of views in a day: 47

As for the rest of the comment, meh. Paulie was getting his butt kicked, so he changed the rules to favor himself and David wouldn’t go along with it.

katz
8 years ago

Psst, Cloudiah: Want to put up my Paul Ryan story?

cloudiah
8 years ago

Also, I changed my kitty, which is the most important thing.

(Yes, Ugh, get a pretty birdy avatar.)

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Everyone’s moving on from the catvatars already? 🙁

cloudiah
8 years ago

@katz, I have that one in the queue!
@Ugh, here’s a birdy you can use:
http://i.imgur.com/CRR0h.jpg

🙂

katz
8 years ago

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

Everyone’s moving on from the catvatars already? 🙁

I’m gonna stick with mine for the time being. I’ll probably go back to the manticore eventually though.

cloudiah
8 years ago

I should use the version from the Forum, right?

fembot
8 years ago

I found a cool picture to change my catqavar. Still kitty themed, though.

fembot
8 years ago

Everyone’s moving on from the catvatars already?

I just do what Cloudiah does, cuz she’s kewl.

fembot
8 years ago

catqavar

I’m turning into my Grandma. She always says Atavar instead of Avatar.

fembot
8 years ago

You must have some real balls on you, Dave. Calling out the guy who soundly made you look like a fool in that little debate the two of you had awhile back.

Manginas don’t have balls. Duh. I thought every good MRA knew that.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Ha ha, if only you knew — I am the opposite of kewl! But I still have a catvatar, it’s just a different catvatar. It’s a huckster kitty trying to sell you patent medicine. Don’t listen to huckster kitty! Huckster kitty is like the Roosh of medicine!

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

..catqavar..

My brain misread that as “catguava”, so I started imagining some sort of weird cat-fruit hybrid.

mintythings
mintythings
8 years ago

I guess I’m late to the party, but these kitties are so cute I just had to try it.

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Damnit. I tried to find a picture of a guava that was cat-shaped, and failed. I did find alot of guava, though.

Deoridhe
8 years ago

OMG, the kitty avatars make this thread awesome. Discussions of literature and anime in between milk lickings and catnip naps. 8O!!!

I think the whole “starts all innocent then gets dark as anything” thing is so archetypally Japanese. My favorite example is Princess Tutu, which starts as cute girl in a ballet outfit magical girl shiny, then gets dark, then gets REALLY dark, then goes OMG deep questions of fate vs. choice wtf??? then ends on kinda cute and sweet.

Fruits Basket does a similar thing, but the manga makes it more gradual (in the anime it’s THREE EPISODES OF DESPAIR) and the underlying theme of inclusion and exclusion is so awesome.

cloudiah
8 years ago

I just want to submit some photographic evidence that at one point yesterday the Recent Comments section was all kittehs.

Deoridhe
8 years ago

I am made of squee and purr.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

@ShadetheDruid
XD I was going to link to the alot post when I saw what you wrote and then I saw it was an actual alot made of guava.

Snowy
Snowy
8 years ago

Well I kept my snowflake intact because I knew the craze would be over eventually :'(

katz
8 years ago

Snowy, you may use any kind of avatar you like 🙂

I will switch back to chimaera in a day or two.

DLZ
DLZ
8 years ago

Wait, I think I get it. None of you actually read the debate, did you? You just read Davie’s follow up, in which he proclaimed to be the champion of love and justice.

Ha, hahaha… I forgot who I was dealing with, here. My apologies.

You guys go on back to trying to convince yourselves of “rape culture” and the like.

But.. what the fuck? I think I hear something… OH SHIT YOU GUYS! ITS RAPE CULTURE! SHE’S HERE TO RAPE US AND MAKE IT A NORMAL PART OF EVERYDAY LIFE! RUUUUUUUN!

katz
8 years ago

But.. what the fuck? I think I hear something… OH SHIT YOU GUYS! ITS RAPE CULTURE! SHE’S HERE TO RAPE US AND MAKE IT A NORMAL PART OF EVERYDAY LIFE! RUUUUUUUN!

Is this a sample of the brilliant debate-winning rhetoric?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Weak sauce, DLZ. You may want to bring your A game next time. Rape jokes are soooooo last year.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Keep fucking that chicken, DLZ.

Cliff Pervocracy (@pervocracy)

“Rape culture! What rape culture? Now observe as I joke about and disdain the idea that rape is a problem!”

/self-demonstrating-troll

cloudiah
8 years ago

self-demonstrating troll may take the prize for “most useless machine ever” away from this:

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

@DLZ

I don’t think you do get it.

Paul Elam has asked his followers to pardon rapists even if they were guilty.

So yes, apparently he does want to make rape part of everyday life.

If the debate didn’t contain the words by Elam saying “Actually, maybe we should legally punish people for rape,” he already lost. Because he is the only one in the conversation who thinks rape should be legally permissible.

It’s kind of like claiming that the KKK won a debate. They’re so obviously in the wrong that to even use the word “debate” is a charitable framing of “talking about reality to someone who thinks half the human race is garbage.”

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

You just read Davie’s follow up, in which he proclaimed to be the champion of love and justice.

I hope you realize that, in a debate with an abuser lobbyist, pretty much any normal person would be the champion of love and justice.

Cliff Pervocracy (@pervocracy)

Yeah, I don’t even care if Paul Elam scored more Internet Points or whatever, he believes rape should be de facto legal. That’s sort of an automatic loss. I don’t care if David’s arguments were crayon scrawlings of “NO U RONG NO,” David still wins because he doesn’t believe rape should be legal.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

Which debate is this, anyway? I remember one formal debate, but I certainly don’t recall Elam winning it.

I do remember him bending the rules every time it suited him, though, which is a neat encapsulation of his attitude towards most other things.

Phil
8 years ago

It’s no surprise that a group of people who view their lives as a movie (red pill/matrix) are narcissistic. Elam isn’t very good at being narcissistic, though, so I don’t think his little cult is going to go very far.