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Splitsville! Paul Elam starts a rival Men’s Rights subreddit, where he can ban people

It was, perhaps, inevitable, and now it has come to pass: obviously fed up with Men’s Rights Redditors questioning his wisdom (and his tactics, and his general narcissistic assholery) on a fairly regular basis, A Voice for Men Supreme Leader Paul Elam has started up his own Men’s Rights subredditr/mensrightsactivists –in which he can summarily ban all ”armchair activists” and “white knights” and “people who disagree with him.” Yep, that’s right: he’s made like a Trotskyist banana, and split.

Elam has long had a fairly strained relationship with Reddit MRAs. If you search through his comment history on Reddit, you can see evidence of numerous meltdowns on his part, which occur fairly regularly whenever anyone challenges him on pretty much anything, even when they are otherwise sympathetic to his views. On his own blog, he responds to such criticism by quickly banning the critics; on Reddit, he has tended to respond with schoolyard insults, digs at the masculinity of his critics, long recitations of his many fine accomplishments as a dedicated armchair activist, and the occasional rape joke.

Clearly the final straw for Elam was the reception given to a post of his on the poster controversy I wrote about here.  Some samples from the discussion. Builtbro offers a substantive critique of Elam’s badly worded posters:

HolyCounsel is a bit more blunt:

And then there’s this edifying exchange:

The massive numbers of upvotes for Elam’s critics and downvotes for his, er, rebuttals seem to be at least partially the result of an invasion from r/SubredditDrama. Still, Elam seems to take each and every downvote personally, so the 238 net downvotes on his “Kleenex” comment must have stung.

In his new subreddit, threads like these clearly won’t be allowed to happen. As Elam explains in his less-than-welcoming “Welcome” message to new visitors:

While dissenters and the blue pill public will be welcome to post links and comment, trolls and other annoyances will be summarily booted with pleasure. This is an MRA dominated zone.

A couple of things to consider: Dissent, especially that which serves to further the improvement of the men’s movement, is welcome and appreciated. But if you want to post here, as a supposed MRA, telling others what is wrong with their work, you better have some MRA credentials.

Inactive, armchair quarterbacks, are not allowed here, unless their posts reflect genuine concern for improving and supporting the MRM and respect for those actually doing the work. If you want to ask questions so that you can learn, that is fine. But if you want to question, just so you can tear down, and you are not an MRA, then it will be adios for you. I’d sooner give a feminist the floor than a back seat driver.

R/mensrightsactivists: Come for the Elam-approved opinions, stay for the bans! Indeed, Elam devotes as much space in his “welcome” message to explaining whom he’ll ban as he does to actually spelling out what the subreddit will ostensibly do differently than good old r/mensrights.

Of course, this is not the first time that some angry MRA or two has decided to start another Men’s Rights subreddit designed to appeal to more, well, belligerent  MRAs. Reddit already boasts an assortment of such subreddits, all of them fairly sparsely populated, including Rights4Men, Male Studies, and FeMRAs, a more obnoxious alternative to the already sparsely populated LadyMRAs. There’s even another subreddit devoted to MRA activism; it goes by the name of, well, MRAactivism. (There may be several more, but I can’t remember what they’re called.)

The Men’s Rights subreddit has nearly 45,000 subscribers; Elam’s new subreddit currently has 49, which is no doubt why he continues to post links to his blog in the original Men’s Rights subreddit. Whether Elam’s new subreddit succeeds and splits the MRM in two, or dies an inglorious death, one thing is sure: there will be plenty of new material for me here at Man Boobz.

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Cliff Pervocracy (@pervocracy)

Don’t you get your semiotics in my gigantic ego and dictionary trolling!

*hhmph*

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Cliff:

… I’m imagining a guinea pig going through the motions of your comment right now. My inner daww is squeeing so hard.

lauralot89
9 years ago

Cats…cats as far as the eye can see…

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
9 years ago

Hey, I’ve got a dog!

Amnesia
Amnesia
9 years ago

Well, I might’ve bothered to make one myself, but I just happened to be reading Fullmetal Alchemist at the local library earlier.

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
9 years ago

I think aidrocsid is the closest the MRM is to having these moderates the trolls keep harping on about…

xaisede
xaisede
9 years ago

Does anyone else hope this infighting becomes a trend? I still think its funny that /no/ that kind of behavior is RARE in aspies /no/

Karalora
Karalora
9 years ago

I no can be kitty. Cannot achieve gmail sign-in to change gravatar. 🙁

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

Splitters!

red_locker
9 years ago

…Katz…you know about icycalm, too?

Watch out, soon he will have a loooooooooooong thread on his (now locked and behind a paywall) forum where he lists EVERY WEBSITE/COMMENT/POST THAT LINKS TO HIM (no, seriously, that is exactly what he does) and go arglebargle on them behind closed doors while his followers kiss his ass.

Also, his fans have been known to go after people saying bad things about icycalm and their “philosophy”, too. Say, that behavior sounds a little familiar…*looks at the recent troll shitlording*

Nah, can’t be. Too much of a coincidence.

red_locker
9 years ago

Sooner or later, I’ll have to change my av to something else. This whole “cat” thing is becoming too mainstream. /avatar hipster

katz
9 years ago

The part of Alex Kierkegaard that you really have to check out is how women are dumb bitches.

xardoz
9 years ago

Heh, I’m sure Elam RAGED that those crafty feminists got ahold of this subreddit first:

http://www.reddit.com/r/avoiceformen

Myoo
Myoo
9 years ago

Azumanga Daioh was one of the first anime I bought (none of the channels I can access have anime, *sob*) and Kamineko is basically how cats treat me. Also chihuahuas*.

There is some anime available on the Internet for free and legally. Now a lot of it is only available in North America but if you don’t live there, there are still some options.
I personally go to Crunchyroll, it has a bunch of good anime that’s available outside North America.

red_locker
9 years ago

Oh, god, that essay by Alex Kierkegaard (oh, by the way, Soren called: He wants his last name back)…yeah, I have long put the guy off beforehand, but that essay is just awful.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
9 years ago

Arrgh!!

So apparently now women are to blame for men and boys lack of sucess because hookup culture.

Can someone please, for the love of all that’s unholy, explain how a boys relative ease in getting laid is detrimental to having ambition or working hard towards a career or other life goals?

cloudiah
9 years ago

@katz, That’s terrible!
@xardoz, That’s fantastic!
@red_locker, I love your kitty, even though, you know, it’s not cool anymore.

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

@Falconer

Hello Friend Troubleshooter, it is quite a wonderful day is it not?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

The question “Can games be art?” is nonsensical, and therefore any answer one might come up with for it will also be nonsensical. Put another way: the question is not a question and the answer is not an answer. It’s kind of like asking if the “sky” can be “sad”. When you ask such a “question” you are using language in an improper way, and the only solution to the “problem” posed by the “question” is for you to simply STOP ASKING IT.

ARGH!!!!

No no no no NO. “Art” as a category is not contradictory with the category of “games” in the way that “sad” is to “sky.” “Art” is not simply a word of praise for things… there is such a thing as bad art! You don’t get to assume this in order to rewrite the question as “Can games be good?” Those are two different questions entirely!!!

(A closer approximation could be something that is done for its form rather than its function, in which case the debate over games being art is more understandable. A game’s function is entertainment, after all.)

Today “serious” game writing is all about little kids desperate to have their little hobbies validated by their moms and dads in order to feel good about wasting so much time on them, instead of going out in the world and doing, you know, something useful.

Oh yes, Valve and Bethesda are just little kids trying to find validation rather than people trying to make cool things. What universe does this guy live in anyway?

I feel like every criticism I come up with is just taking potshots at an easy target, and I have to re-read to make sure there isn’t actually some deeper meaning behind his writing. But no, it’s shallow masked behind convoluted sentence structure and furious epithets… *sigh*

I have a bizarre disire to sit down and talk to this guy now… I’m being drawn in by the terrible.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
9 years ago

omg am I kitty???

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

@katz

I couldn’t read that, it’s a pet peeve of mine when someone uses a Nietzsche quote massively out of context, and the first two sentences of that article infuriated me beyond measure.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
9 years ago

Kirby, how the hell can you read that shit?

Seriously, I have sat down with many a dry, boring and antique book and been able to read them.

This guy is going for a style contemporary with sir arthur conan doyles (which I happen to like) and failing miserably. More words do not equal better!! Especially when y eyes start glazing midway through the sentence and I have to read it again to remember what he’s going on about.

Did he flunk out of Eng Lit 101 and this is his revenge?

Ugh
Ugh
9 years ago

This is the last Nietzsche interpretation you will ever need:
http://www.dead-philosophers.com/?p=489

katz
9 years ago

Yeah, icycalm seems like he just doesn’t understand abstract concepts, period, and seems to have never realized that if a concept doesn’t make sense to him, it might just be complex or subtle, rather than automatically wrong.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@red_locker:

He goes after people who link to him? You don’t say…

This guy is narcissistic, overly verbose, banal, and just plain wrong. ^_^

@katz:

At the first line. Cringing already. Trainwreck. Watching. Can’t look away.

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

@Ugh

I love dead philosophers in Heaven.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@pillowinhell:

Honestly? I just ignore about 3/4ths of every sentence. Then I get at the actual “meangingful” content. It involves a lot of backtracking to figure out exactly how the hell he came to the conclusion he did. Oh, you made a vague reference to the word “art” being used as praise. That’s how you got to “art == good.”

Still wrong.

katz
9 years ago

Did he flunk out of Eng Lit 101 and this is his revenge?

A female teacher told him he couldn’t be a writer, so he wrote a massive wall of text and is now selling it for $40 to his acolytes.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

You can tell the sky is sad when it’s raining. I thought everybody knew that.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

I just thought of a great quote that unfortunately does not have any context.

“Language is a tool used for purposes other than masturbation.” -Kirbywarp

Feel free to use. ^_^ (though with my luck somebody else already thought of it)

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Better:

“Language is not just a masturbatory aid.” -Kirbywarp

More to the point, I think.

Anathema
Anathema
9 years ago

With regards to Alex Kierkegaard’s essay, I got through the first few paragraphs.

And then there was this:

THERE IS EVEN A BLOG POST IN WHICH SHE ASKING FOR A BOYFRIEND. AND ANOTHER ONE IN WHICH SHE IS PICTURED JUMPING UP AND DOWN ON A WII FIT BOARD. — That’s what games writing has finally degenerated into, dear readers: strumpets with hairdos jumping up and down on Wii Fit boards.

I’m not sure how a woman looking for a boyfriend online is a such a travesty. I’m not sure why someone posting a picture of themselves using a Wii Fit board is so awful. And I have absolutely no clue as to why either of these things might be deserving of the Caps Lock of Rage.

I also don’t know when the last time I heard someone use the word “strumpet” without so much as a hint of irony.

But strumpets! With hairdos!

I don’t have a hairdo and I don’t know what it takes to qualify as a strumpet in Alex Kierkegaard’s book. I don’t care. That phrase is just so beautiful. I want it printed on a business card: Anathema, strumpet with a hairdo.

rjjspesh
9 years ago

“It’ll be interesting to see how this turns out, redditors will be torn between their love for free speech, and their hatred of women.”

That’s what I was thinking

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
9 years ago

Ananthema that would be an awesome business card!!!

…I want a business card like that…

drst
drst
9 years ago

*refuses to be assimilated into the cat avatar collective*

Mostly because I have no account.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
9 years ago

… hairdos?
… hairdos?
hairdos?!

Do they expect… hairdos? do they expect female games writes to be bald or something? How do you not have a hairdo? …

…hairdo?

fembot
9 years ago

Roosh has a new post on his blog titled “The Men’s Rights Movement is Dead.” Interesting how fast the cookie crumbles. I can’t link to it but maybe someone else can.

KittehServant
KittehServant
9 years ago

OMG Ugh, that Dead Philosophers page is hysterical!

KittehServant
KittehServant
9 years ago

I have a hairdo but I’ve never jumped up and down on a whatsit board. Does that make me half a strumpet? ( A strump?) And is a strumpet worse than being crumpet?

Mmmm, crumpets with butter and honey and tea …

katz
9 years ago

drst, creating a Gravatar account is momentary. Having a catvatar is eternal.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
9 years ago

Nate Phelps, one of Fred Phelp’s kids who escaped the cult, has done a number of interviews and talks frequently about growing up in the WBC. Fred Phelps is a true believer. Honestly his picketing activity isn’t even the worst of the horrible things he’s done compared to how he treated his children

That’s true. I watched a documentary about the Phelps family called Fall from Grace. Fred Phelps used to be physically violent towards his wife and children. He decided that was wrong, though, so he began abusing other people through the courts. He got disbarred, and now he directs all of his rage towards LGBT people with his pickets and protests. One of his estranged daughters described him as a rageaholic, and he’s convinced most of his family to obey him without question. One of his sons has vowed to continue on in his footsteps someday when Fred Phelps dies.

Like others said, though, some of their pickets really have nothing to do with gay rights, but they’ll come up with strange excuses of why they think it does. Their protest in Joplin really made no sense. What would a tornado have to do with gay marriage? It seems to me they just saw a lot of people in grief and figured we’d be easy targets for their abuse. I’m just glad the counter protest was peaceful, and that we didn’t give them as much attention as they wanted. It’s hard but people shouldn’t sink down to their level.

That being said, I didn’t feel sorry for them a year ago when some truckers and bikers blocked them from coming into Joplin to protest the memorial one week after the tornado. That was such a chaotic time and the police were already overwhelmed with security for the President and everything. We really didn’t need them coming in and making things worse. Nobody hurt them or anything. They just made a physical barrier to keep them out of the city.

red_locker
9 years ago

So, back on topic (or not…honestly, icycalm and Paul Elam are both competing for “Biggest Pretentious Trainwreck”), anyone else notice how…sparse the comments are in the posts highlighted here? I mean, sure, there are large comment threads about either something innocuous (done by a woman), or something shitty (done by a woman), whenever those occur…but bad media representation? Apparently, there are only a few who would care so much as to take a stab at Elam for his behavior. Everything else seems to be silence.

I mean, yeah, there ARE more than few angry comments at Elam, but it’s like some folks are either indifferent (read: supporting him in e-mail), or they’re just like Buttman, going off about how they “have” to be asshats because they perceive someone else being that way.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

For how can you not laugh when you come across some obviously uneducated trollop referring to Lord of the Rings and Star Wars as “extant cultural sources for non-realistic narratives”? Google it — you can’t make this shit up. — AND WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?

Ah

Er…

*flails in frustration”

I googled it. Top result was for a blog called “Sexy Videogameland.” So that explains a lot.

I don’t even need to google the words or be a big gamer to recognize that the fantasy genre has been pretty much defined by Tolkein, and every fantasy world seems to include elves and orcs and so on. So I can see how the phrase could mean that.

Hilarious how he’s comparing blogs to published magazines in the 80s though, and how terrible of a person he is. That sentence, of all things, strikes him as “obviously uneducated?” Really?

Also lulz at the outrage against “painfully juvenile pretentiousness.” Projection levels are skyrocketing, captain! I don’t think my irony meter can take much more!

Myoo
Myoo
9 years ago

On icycalm’s essay on emergent game behavior, he says this in regards to a quote by Jean Baudrillard:

[…]And none of this should really be surprising, coming as it does from the same man who once claimed that “the real joy of writing lies in the opportunity of being able to sacrifice a whole chapter for a single sentence, a complete sentence for a single word”.

So that is what we should be doing: exhaustively analyzing the above passage; carefully studying its prerequisites, taking to the limit all its consequences. Anything less, any approach other than this, would simply be a symptom of laziness, idiocy, cowardice — and therefore only fit for lazy people, idiots and cowards.

How does someone miss the point so badly? And then he writes an enormous screed about how emergent game behavior doesn’t exist.
Do people really pay money to read his dross?

Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago
red_locker
9 years ago

Careful, kirbywarp, you might make your blood boil reading that crap.

…then again, shit, you went through Steele. This is NOTHING, right?

aworldanonymous
9 years ago

@Anathema

I actually have ponify set to filter the word whores as strumpets.

red_locker
9 years ago

“Do people really pay money to read his dross?”

Well, like I said, the guy has followers. I’ve seen them in the wild…and they’re just as pretentious and bigoted as him. All of them.

katz
9 years ago

Yo, aworldanon, you may want to de-ponify things when you quote them.

Myoo
Myoo
9 years ago

@Snowy
One of the comments on that post was:

This the most motivating site I’ve ever read.

And I could only think of how sad that was.