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a voice for men actual activism alpha males antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? domestic violence facepalm misogyny MRA oppressed men paul elam rape rape jokes rapey the poster revolution has begun

The whole world is watching … A Voice for Men “activists” making asses of themselves

Well,I got carried away there. It’s not literally the whole world. Only a teensy weensy portion of it.

The fellows at A Voice for Men, you see, evidently stung by criticism that they aren’t activists, have begun engaging in real, honest-to-goodness real-world activism, by which I mean that a handful of them, some in Canada and at least one in Australia, have been putting up posters advertising the AVFM website.

In other words, their activism consists of putting up posters for a website whose only activism thus far has consisted of putting up posters for itself.

Well, eventually they’ll get the hang of it, I guess.

In any case, the A Voice for Menners have discovered something about activism: if you do things that are offensive enough, people will be offended. And so they’ve managed to offend some people in Canada and in Australia where their posters have gone up. In Australia, there have even been a couple of news articles written about them! For example, one in Melbourne’s Herald Sun says:

A MAN who is littering the city with posters promoting a website that encourages men to support rapists has declined the opportunity to explain himself.

The website, which the Herald Sun has chosen not to name, is campaigning to get men sitting on juries for rape trials to “vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true”. …

The website’s publisher, Paul Elam, told the Herald Sun he was too busy watching the movie Air Force One to be interviewed, but later said by email he stood by the campaign.

Ooh! How very, very alpha of him.

Other articles (see here and here) describe the posters as “hate posters,” because one of them seems to suggest that women provoke domestic violence against themselves. The text of the poster reads “Domestic Violence Women Are Half the Problem.”

In fact, Elam and company are trying to suggest that women instigate half of all domestic violence, and thus are “half the problem,” but they’re so wedded to the easily misunderstood “half the problem” slogan that they somehow cannot seem to get this idea across in poster form. (This idea is itself incorrect, but that’s a whole other kettle of angry dudes.) Elam and company don’t quite seem to understand that an important part of activism is actually conveying your ideas to the general public rather than simply provoking people.

You can’t buy this kind of publicity!

Well, technically, you could, but no one would, because no one would willingly pay money for a publicity campaign that makes them appear to be hateful assholes — and in fact, even a teensy bit more hateful than they actually are.

So, congratulations, I guess?

If anyone wants to help AVFM in its publicity campaign, the super-sarcastic poster below, and a number of other poorly thought out and badly designed posters, can be downloaded from AVFM here by “anyone who wants to print and distribute them.”

Note: THIS IS A REAL AVFM POSTER. I didn’t make it up. See here.

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blitzgal
8 years ago

As to the whole “refusal to hand in a guilty verdict” thing (I don’t know who said that) – I have no problem condemning that as dangerous bullshit too.

Paul Elam of AVFM said that. And when asked for a quote by the paper, he said he was too busy watching a movie.

The First Joe
The First Joe
8 years ago

@Ugh – Basically, yes. I’ll drop a line by here sometime and let you know how I get on with it.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

See ya.

some guy bored with your schtick
some guy bored with your schtick
8 years ago

“Yow said that his suicide was an example of MR Activism. He was protesting having his children taken away from him just because he assaulted one of them and refused to go to anger management. Do you think the judge should have taken away his kids or not?”

His protest what about the entire process and not just about his kids being taken away, but how the courts favor women and abuse women.

My own personal take is that the courts do favor women, mostly, but it’s actually more cynical than that, that the judge on the first day of the first case determines which partner can best pay for all the attorney and court services involved and then everything is determined after that (in 95%) of cases.

But you can recognize that Ball’s protest was about the systematic institutionalized misandry of family court without agreeing that he was ever right to hit his kid.

My feeling is that if what Ball claimed was accurate, that he slapped his kid once out of anger, that it is certainly justified for him to lose custody until he has gone to enough anger management and other course to substantiate any claims that he is no longer a danger. It is certainly reasonable to give him supervised visitation in the meantime.

And that given how often we see courts and CPS give kids back to mothers with enormous additions, alcohol problems, who then run into more problems, etc., there is no reason to think that Ball’s issues couldn’t have been resolved in the future.

If he refused to attend court mandated anger management classes after that, he was a fool.

That he encouraged violence against others makes him an asshole.

That does not excuse misandry in the court and the various ways family courts abuse people.

“Yow said that his suicide was an example of MR Activism”

I said his suicide was an example, along with F4J, this was to refute David Futrelle’s claim that MRAs and FRAs do nothing but put posters up. I also stated over and over that I disagreed with much of Ball’s behavior.

This stopped precisely none of you from intentionally misrepresenting my view points, something I would expect from Fox News, Republicans and other propagandists.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

His protest what about the entire process and not just about his kids being taken away, but how the courts favor women and abuse women.

In his case, for all we know, the court might just have been biased against child abusers. That is definitely a documented tendency,

My feeling is that if what Ball claimed was accurate, that he slapped his kid once out of anger, that it is certainly justified for him to lose custody until he has gone to enough anger management and other course to substantiate any claims that he is no longer a danger. It is certainly reasonable to give him supervised visitation in the meantime.

That was the original deal. He turned it down.

I said his suicide was an example,

So we’re in agreement. That was what you claimed. The a child abuser, protesting that he was no longer alloowed to abuse his children, killed himself in the hope it would inspire terrorist attacks. That’s your example. That’s an example of what your movement is about.

I think you should let that sick in for a bit.

something I would expect from Fox News, Republicans and other propagandists.

Do you expect it from the dozens of MRA sites that “neglect” to fill in the details about WHY he lost custody?

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Stick the flounce, abuser’s lobbyist.

Sharculese
8 years ago

But you can recognize that Ball’s protest was about the systematic institutionalized misandry of family court without agreeing that he was ever right to hit his kid.

actually no it was about an angry dude lashing out because he was required to take a modicum of responsibility for his behavior and this proved too much for him

This stopped precisely none of you from intentionally misrepresenting my view points, something I would expect from Fox News, Republicans and other propagandists.

yeah dude, not rolling over and accepting your framing was the greatest crime of all time. cry harder you fucking baby.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

But you can recognize that Ball’s protest was about the systematic institutionalized misandry of family court without agreeing that he was ever right to hit his kid.

Do you seriously believe that abusers and terrorists ever take any actions for reasons other than their own narcissism? I’ve got a bridge to sell you, pal.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

His protest what about the entire process and not just about his kids being taken away, but how the courts favor women and abuse women.

No it wasn’t. It was about him being the most unbelievably selfish father possible.

But you can recognize that Ball’s protest was about the systematic institutionalized misandry of family court without agreeing that he was ever right to hit his kid.

No, not really.

My feeling is that if what Ball claimed was accurate, that he slapped his kid once out of anger, that it is certainly justified for him to lose custody until he has gone to enough anger management and other course to substantiate any claims that he is no longer a danger. It is certainly reasonable to give him supervised visitation in the meantime.

So the courts dealt with him fairly, but his protest against the courts was valid? WTF?

I said his suicide was an example, along with F4J, this was to refute David Futrelle’s claim that MRAs and FRAs do nothing but put posters up. I also stated over and over that I disagreed with much of Ball’s behavior.

So your argument is ‘MRAs do more that put up posters! They do horrible, unjustified things that I disprove of! So there!’

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

The question you really have to ask yourself is :”Why didn’t Ball take the court ordered anger management to keep his kids?”

It’s because he didn;’t want to be expected to not hit his kids. He was willing to give up his kids and kill himself instead of taking basic responsibility for his actions.

heidihi
heidihi
8 years ago

@Pillowinhell, I’m so sorry that you went through what you went through as a child.

@The First Joe, I’m very sorry that you, too, went through such horrible things as a child.

@Some Guy, CHILD ABUSE IS ALWAYS WRONG YOU ZEKE.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Oh, no. Some guy compared us to Fox News, whatever shall we do?

I vote point and laugh.

BlueBee
BlueBee
8 years ago

And hugs for you, Pillowinhell. I’m sorry for what you went through as a child.

Rahu
Rahu
8 years ago

Yes, I’m just catching up, too (having posted without reading everything first).

Pillowinhell, I’m so sorry they did that to you.

The 1st Joe, I’m sorry that happened to you, too.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

From Elam’s little bit re:being interviewed but watching Air Force One instead:

Are you single? Have you been divorced and been refused access to your children?

With the same partner for 10 years. Oh, and for follow up on your earlier question, I just asked her if she thought I hated her. She said, and I quote, “I don’t think so.”

A lot of MRM things make me sad or angry or frustrated, but for whatever reason that’s the one thing that’s made me saddest. “I don’t think so.” 🙁

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

I was off making them posters too!

http://i.imgur.com/Pj1p0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pnkmR.jpg

The goggles! They do nothing!

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

I said his suicide was an example, along with F4J, this was to refute David Futrelle’s claim that MRAs and FRAs do nothing but put posters up.

Yeah! We MRAs do more than just put up posters! Sometimes we set ourselves on fire!

Effie
Effie
8 years ago

Joe, you’ve prompted me to take a look at what DV shelter services for men exist in my metro area (Boston). I can’t find any specifically for only straight men who are victims of violence. There is the Gay Men’s Domestic Violence Project, which provides emergency shelter and other DV services for gay, bi, and transmen, which arose because queer men were being shut out of DV shelters. Elizabeth Stone House provides for “individuals and families,” so presumably they could help straight men. I don’t see anything specifically for men outside of Boston metro; there doesn’t appear to be much in the surrounding burbs. There are multiple homeless shelters for single men, but nothing specifically for male victims of DV. What resources are out there are not easy to find. I imagine that has a lot to do with the budget cuts affecting all shelter services; emergency shelter services were cut by $23 MILLION last year in this state.

Tomorrow I’m going to call the GMDVP and Elizabeth Stone House and ask what resources they have for straight male victims, or if they know of others. Once I get that answer, I’ll take that data to a friend of mine who works for the state in DHHS, and see about getting it put up on the DV resources page specifically under a quick reference section for male victims. It shouldn’t have taken me 20 minutes to figure out that maybe Elizabeth Stone House could help me if I were a straight male victim.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
8 years ago

Oh the irony, that even the Murdoch tabloid Herald-Sun has a go at these dipshits. It’s not exactly the number one anti-misogynist paper around – it barely contains its disgust that we have a woman Prime Minister (though I daresay it’d cope if she were a Liberal-National). I’m glad to say I haven’t noticed any of these stupid posters around town.

And all this ‘free speech’ crap – hello, stop importing stuff from the US Constitution that refers to American government not persecuting its citizens! This is Australia and we don’t actually have that clause written into out constitution, besides which this has nothing to do with government anyway.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
8 years ago

@ The Kitteh’s Unpaid Help – Oh, I completely missed that it was a Murdoch paper! That makes it so much funnier. If you’re too reactionary for those guys…

As for free speech, I know it’s not constitutionally protected in Australia, but I still think it’s an important thing to fight for. That said, I don’t think private citizens tearing down or defacing posters is an attack on it. All sorts of posters get torn off, torn up, painted on, defaced and pasted over. You put something on a wall, you take your chances.

Well, unless you’re Banksy, I guess.

pecunium
8 years ago

This was in fact the thesis of David’s post. I am just here to point out how boring his schtick is.

To whom?

He’s getting lots of hits. He has an active commentariat, with new users, older users, steady users, intermittent users, trolls and outside groups linking to him.

He’s been invited to take part in wider world discussions of the subject. The MRM hates him, but can’t seem to actually show him to be wrong.

So who is it that’s bored with him?

Steele
Steele
8 years ago

To be frank, I’ve predominantly given up on Boobzland; it’s been frankly frustratingly futile, and I also believe that some new faces are doing an excellent job taking you all to task – Joe, for example, I have great respect for. But this is simply too much.

When you get right down to it, A Voice for Men is now sending its feelers into the real world – yes, it is a burgeoning human rights movement, and thus the first priority is to raise consciousness. That is, to get people- especially those inclined to sympathy- on board.

And naturally, Boobzland sneers. Well, you’ll be talking out of the other side of your mouths soon- check back in five years. We’ll see how tough feminism is then.

cloudiah
8 years ago

A Voice for Men is now sending its feelers into the real world

Ewww.

pecunium
8 years ago

I have already condemned this in the strongest way,

That is by saying the response to it (refusing him visitation until he took one anger management counseling session) was unjust, and his terroristic protest was activism.

That’s some definition of condemn you’ve got going there. Could you cite the dictionary you’re using?

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

To be frank, I’ve predominantly given up on Boobzland

Party! Party! Party!

pecunium
8 years ago

Hellkell: re books.

Debt, the first 5,000 years. 1493. Fear of Phsyics. Small things considered. A bunch of Nero Wolff.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

How many trolls can simultaneously pull this lame “Oh you’re so boring, I’m so tired of you, that’s why I’m still trolling your comments section” schtick simultaneously?

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

@cloudiah

From your blog post:

The posters reminded me of the Ron Paul supporter who decided to help his favorite candidate a few months ago by plastering the University I work at with posters and stickers that just said “Google Ron Paul.”

I know the feeling. My uni just finished interfaith week and the Atheism club or w/e were annoyed that they weren’t invited, so we got r/atheism/quotes-over-pictures-of-space leaking all over campus for a week in poster form. Daniel Radcliffe doesn’t believe in god? Oh wow! I’ll reconsider my beliefs now that an actor disagrees with them!

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Eh, blockquote fail. Also I’m now in moderation? I forgot not to mention Dr Don Fall.

some guy bored with your schtick
some guy bored with your schtick
8 years ago

Ugh, here is where you (or anyone) first used the word “beat”:

“Like, seriously what did you want the judge to do? “I know you beat your kids when you’re angry, and I know you have refused any and all counseling options, so here! Have custody of toddlers for several days a week.” Yeah, that would turn out great.”

Now, just a small gedanken experiment:

Q: Most english readers reading this paragraph would believe Thomas Ball has hit his children: A) One time in his life. B) Multiple times. C) Many times and whenever he is angry?

So not only did you first imply that Thomas Ball repeatedly hits his kids, but you have then spent the day insisting that a reasonable definition for “beat” is “hit only one time.”

It’s nonsense like this plus the usual misrepresentative pile-on that is approved by the cohort here, that keeps feminism like yours a mostly fringe movement with young women these days often saying, “I like what feminism does, but I would never call myself a feminist.”

My suggestion is you start being honest with others in forums, and one day you can be honest with yourself.

Enjoy your hate.

KittehServant
KittehServant
8 years ago

As for free speech, I know it’s not constitutionally protected in Australia, but I still think it’s an important thing to fight for. That said, I don’t think private citizens tearing down or defacing posters is an attack on it. All sorts of posters get torn off, torn up, painted on, defaced and pasted over. You put something on a wall, you take your chances.

Well, unless you’re Banksy, I guess.

Oh, totally agree there, Sir Bod; I do think we need it to be clarified, and perhaps the Constitution amended to reflect that. But the ‘free speech!’ ranters, here as in the US, are usually more about their right to hate speech than anything else (vis that arsehole ‘journalist’ Andrew Bolt whining about free speech when he was found guilty of racism recently). It rarely has anything to do with government.

Ha, even Banksy loses out here sometimes – one of his works in Melbourne was vandalised (despite being put under perspex by the city council) and another was recently destroyed by workmen who didn’t know what it was! 😀

cloudiah
8 years ago

Not at all, David!

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

@some guy bored with a stick

It’s nonsense like this… that keeps feminism like yours a mostly fringe movement with young women these days often saying, “I like what feminism does, but I would never call myself a feminist.”

It’s funny how you never hear “I like what Men’s Rights Activists do, but I would never call myself a Men’s Rights Activist”, isn’t it? Oh right, you’d have to actually do something first, and no sensible people would like it anyway.

Steele
Steele
8 years ago

Oh – and you should know, “pear” is an anagram for “rape”. The author is satirizing the vile, misandrist, nonsensical logic behind many feminist concepts, such as “Schrodinger’s Rapist”. It is absurdist humor, requiring mental nuance I wouldn’t expect any of the disgusting individuals here to possess.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

It is absurdist humor

Well, sort of.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Steele has GOT to be a Poe.

Yosei
8 years ago

When was the last time an MRM group set up a DV shelter? I’d like a list and compare it to the ones feminist groups have established.

Anathema
Anathema
8 years ago

To be frank, I’ve predominantly given up on Boobzland; it’s been frankly frustratingly futile, and I also believe that some new faces are doing an excellent job taking you all to task – Joe, for example, I have great respect for. But this is simply too much.

Is frank the new vile?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

@some guy

Sure, I should have said kid (singular), though obviously someone who admits to one act of child abuse is also more likely to commit child abuse in the future.

Happy? You have successfully split hairs on how much of a child abuser your movement’s hero was.

Now, what do you have to say about the many MRA blogs who intentionally mislead people about why he lost custody?

Scotty Dudebro
8 years ago

@pillowinhell

Hate crime laws in Canada are a tricky thing. I believe the prosecutors would have to show that these posters are likely to incite violence or other serious consequences against women. As it stands, most people aren’t aware of the MRM, and what its really after.

Most Canadians are going to a) not pay attention to the posters or b) see them and not really understand what they mean.

In my secret fantasy someone does claim these posters are hate speech, Elam gets called into court, and then he argues that they aren’t because they’re so poorly done no one will get them, and besides so one really pays attention to MRAs anyway.

It makes me giggle.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

To put it another way, if you’ve spent this long arguing semantics with someone who is pro-removing children from an abuser, maybe you could spend just a little bit of time arguing facts with people who are anti-removing children from an abuser.

Enjoy your hate.

I hate child abusers. I can live with that.

Your movement hates people who protect children from abusers. Can you live with that?

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

When was the last time an MRM group set up a DV shelter? I’d like a list and compare it to the ones feminist groups have established.

The more relevant question is “has an MRM group ever done anything ever that demonstratably benefitted actual men in any way.”

It’s a surprisingly easy question to answer.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

@Ugh

The more relevant question is “has an MRM group ever done anything ever that demonstratably benefitted actual men in any way.”

Well, it’s possible that some men who thought sexism doesn’t exist came across the MRM and went “golly gee willikers*, I didn’t think people hated women this much, I guess I should check my privilege”.

*they were also old-timey newspaper boys.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

@Myoo
Fair point

@Yosei
Sorry if I came across a bit caustic. It’s been one of those nights.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

To be frank, I’ve predominantly given up on Boobzland; it’s been frankly frustratingly futile,

Frankly, the feminist feline fanciers of Manboobz feel frankly, forthrightly, and fervently fantastic about the future prospect of no longer facing your frankly fallacious and frothy foolishness, to be frankly frank, frankly.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Wow, “some guy” sure has a big up his butt about the PRECISE WORD used to describe hitting a toddler hard enough to make her bleed.

Because heaven forfend we make it sound like that’s a bad or violent thing.

…Seriously, are you like this in real life? Someone tells a story about a toddler being hit and your first impulse is to pull out the ol’ Webster’s to argue that they’re using the wrong word? THAT’S what you think is super important here?

Hey, new MRM poster idea:
“It is a FEMINIST LIE that Thomas Ball hit his child.
The TRUTH is he only hit her hard enough to draw blood.”
See how many new fans that shit draws to your burgeoning movement.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Whew, yeah, Polliwog. His alliteration was giving me the red ass too.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Seriously, when words to the effect of “well, he didn’t make the toddler bleed THAT much, geez” are coming out of your mouth, it is time to fucking re-evaluate your life.