Manosphere misogynists like to tell themselves fairy tales about women. Their favorite such tale, repeated endlessly, is one called “The Cock Carousel” – sometimes referred to in expanded form as the “Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel” or the “Bad Boy Cock Carousel.” (Hence that Rooster-riding gal you see in this blog’s header about half the time.)
Despite the different names, the story is always, monotonously, the same: In their late teens and twenties, when they’re at the height of their sexual appeal, women (or at least the overwhelming majority of them) have sex in rapid succession with an assortment of charismatic but unreliable alpha males and “bad boys” who make their vaginas (or just ‘ginas) tingle. Then, sometime in their mid-to-late twenties, these women “hit the wall,” with their so-called sexual market value (or SMV) dropping faster than Facebook’s stock price. As Roissy/Heartiste puts it, in his typically overheated prose:
So sad, so tragic, the inevitable slide into sexual worthlessness that accompanies women, the withering tick tock of the cosmic clock stripping their beauty in flayed bits of soulletting mignons like psychological ling chi. A sadistic thief in the night etching, billowing, draping and sagging a new affront to her most preciously guarded asset.
While many women try to pretend they’ve still “got it,” even at the ripe old age of thirty, they inevitably have to either get off or get thrown off the “cock carousel.” At this point the more savvy women glom onto some convenient “beta male” who, while somewhat lacking in sexual appeal, will at least be a good husband and provider for them – and in many cases the children they’ve had with alpha male seed. Those women who don’t accept the new reality are destined to end up alone and childless, surrounded by cats.
To borrow the phrase South Park used in its episodes about Scientology and Mormonism, this is what manosphere men actually believe. Not only that, but they claim that this fairy tale is based on real science.
So who are these mysterious alpha males that get the women so excited? As one guide to pickup artist (PUA) lingo puts it:
In animal hierarchies, the Alpha Male is the most dominant, and typically the physically strongest member of the group. For example, in wolf packs, the “alpha wolf” is the strongest member of the pack, and is the leader of the group. This position of leadership is often achieved by killing or defeating the previous Alpha Male in combat. Alpha wolves have first access to food as well as mating privileges with the females of the pack.
Social status among human social groups is less rigidly defined than in the animal kingdom, but there are some recognizable parallels. Although people don’t often engage in physical violence to achieve dominance, there are still recognizable leaders in different fields who have wide access to material resources and women.
Because the qualities of the Alpha Male (such as social dominance and leadership) are attractive to women, many PUAs have adopted these ideals as models of emulation. In fact, the term “alpha” has come be shorthand for the qualities of an attractive man, and it is a common refrain among PUAs to be “more alpha” or to “out alpha” competitors.
There’s a certain logic to all this. But unfortunately for the PUAs and other manospherians the notion of the Alpha male is based on bad science. The notion of Alpha dominance, as the definition above notes, came originally from studies of wolf packs. Even if we assume that wolf behavior is somehow a good model upon which to base our understanding of human romance – as manosphere men and evolutionary psychologists tend to do – the science behind the Alpha male wolf has now come completely undone, with many of those who promulgated the theory in the first place decades ago now explicitly repudiating it.
The problem, you see, is that the studies underlying the notion of the alpha male wolf, who aggressively asserts his dominance over beta males in order to rule the pack, were all based on observations of wolves in captivity. In the real world, wolf packs don’t work that way at all. Most wolf packs are basically wolf families, with a breeding pair and their pups. When male pups reach adulthood, they don’t fight their fathers for dominance — they go out and start their own families.
As noted wolf behavior expert L. David Mech, one of those who helped to establish and popularize the notion of the alpha wolf in the first place, explains on his website:
The concept of the alpha wolf is well ingrained in the popular wolf literature at least partly because of my book “The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species,” written in 1968, published in 1970, republished in paperback in 1981, and currently still in print, despite my numerous pleas to the publisher to stop publishing it. Although most of the book’s info is still accurate, much is outdated. We have learned more about wolves in the last 40 years then in all of previous history.
One of the outdated pieces of information is the concept of the alpha wolf. “Alpha” implies competing with others and becoming top dog by winning a contest or battle. However, most wolves who lead packs achieved their position simply by mating and producing pups, which then became their pack. In other words they are merely breeders, or parents, and that’s all we call them today, the “breeding male,” “breeding female,” or “male parent,” “female parent,” or the “adult male” or “adult female.” In the rare packs that include more than one breeding animal, the “dominant breeder” can be called that, and any breeding daughter can be called a “subordinate breeder.”
So the dominant male wolves – those whom manosphere dudes would still call the alphas – achieve this position not by being sexy badasses but simply by siring and taking responsibility for pups. To use the terminology in the manner of manosphere dudes, alphas become alphas by acting like betas. That’s right: alphas are betas. (For more of the details, see this paper by Mech; it’s in pdf form.)
Also, they’re wolves and not humans, but that’s a whole other kettle of anthropomorphized fish.
Oh jeez, “i doubt i can trust ANY women ever again”? Then you’re weak and lazy.
This is an excuse not to try. Stop making excuses. Just be an adult. Take responsibility for your feelings and do something about them.
@auggziliary, I read it more as as ‘I feel for you (which I wouldn’t have thought possible). I would resort to violence to help you! Roar, smash! Cuz I’m manly and that’s what I do! But should you need an intelligent and thoughtful person to help you, please feel free to send me an email.’ Which is… whoa, srsly?
Jeez, me neither. “Um… thank you? >.>”
RE: marinerachel
This is an excuse not to try. Stop making excuses. Just be an adult. Take responsibility for your feelings and do something about them.
I know, right? It’s like, shit, I had two male child-molesters in my family, a male rapist, and a good handful of guys who were complete assholes about that rape. I’M supposed to be aware that not all guys are like that, but he’s supposed to have license to throw his big alpha tantrum? Spare me.
I am legit sorry these things have happened. I’m sorry Mr. Pack was burnt by a girlfriend. I’m sorry you suffered sexual abuse. I’m sorry my dad beat me up. Really, my heart breaks to know anyone has suffered pain at the hands of others, that people can be so cruel. It is devastating to me and much worse to the people who suffered the abuse.
I’m not going to give anyone a free pass for treating people like shit because they were treated like shit though. If you don’t want to process and move past your bad feels, whatever. That indicates you’re pretty weak or lazy or scared but it’s not my life. If you’re going to insist it isn’t possible and use it as an excuse to mistreat people though, hoooooo boy, you’re as bad as those that have hurt you.
I understand how people can get to these bad places and I am sorry they suffered the hurt that pushed them in that general direction. It’s not a fucking excuse to disregard the well being of others and not take responsibility for your own feels though.
Come on. We’re grown ups. That means we’re responsible for how we conduct ourselves, even if they’re the result of someone else’s unkindness.
Re-entering here to dig up what Ally said, because it is so damn important (and Sixpackoshitsammitches, not so much):
It is indeed ironic, and I happen to know a number of TERFs. They are dogmatically oblivious, and nothing I’ve said about the complete bass-ackwardness of their assumptions could reach them. I’ve decided to lie low for the time being and just watch what’s being said so I can formulate my own analysis. So far, the majority of it seems to be revolving around the issue of trans lesbians and the fear and repugnance they have of them, and the notion that they’re “really men who want to invade women’s spaces any way they can”. It’s ridiculous, too, because the moment a trans woman decides to stop being read as male, she gives up male privilege. And if you really don’t want to sleep with one, you don’t HAVE to! (Anyway, it’s not like lesbians who are “women born women” can’t commit sexual assault themselves. Abusers exist in all groups. Yet no one accuses THEM of “invading women’s spaces”, because they are cis women. I wonder if anyone plans on addressing this blind spot anytime soon. I’m straight, so I guess that rules me out.)
I think the real problem is that their (anti-)gender analysis is dated, and on some level, they know this, but can’t accept that “their” brand of “radical” is no longer truly radical. Most of them are quite a bit older than me; I’m on a kind of generational cusp myself. They’re unlikely to change, for all they claim to be “watching” the whole gender thing, and so on. The fixation on “sex, not gender!” is, ironically, as sexist as anything an MRA could dream up. I’ve come to the conclusion that gender isn’t the problem, sexism is. And by trying to hammer trans women into the procrustean boxes of either “effeminate gay man” or “cross-dressing straight man”, they’re actually perpetuating a form of misogyny to which they’re willfully blind, not to mention hindering ways of seeing and being that challenge traditional notions of gender in ways that their old-school radicalism could not. In a way, that too is an expression of privilege. They resent the term “cis” and insist it’s not real, but actually, it’s not real the way white is not real. Whites don’t see whiteness until they’re taught to; same with cisgenders.
Of course, once you see it, you can’t un-see it, and that’s uncomfortable as hell at first. The term “cis” doesn’t weird me out like it used to; it’s just a word for something that has always existed (and has always had its counterpart), but didn’t have a word before. I know and accept that now. I don’t consider it a threat, or an unwelcome label. It’s an adjective, not a pejorative. It’s neutral and useful. But others are still stuck in that “don’t you dare say cis” mode, and I don’t know what to do about it. Other than try to be the change I want to see, and set an example for others on the fence, I really don’t know what to do. All those acrimonious arguments really do wear one down.
@Bina
The thing is, even trans women who pass as men don’t really have male privilege – at most they have male-passing privilege. In the same sense that a lesbian never has straight privilege because she’s a lesbian, not a straight woman, I have never experienced male privilege because I’m a girl, not a guy. And interestingly, many of my experiences are reflective of misogyny as well; I grew up with an intense fear of sexual assault by strange men not common among boys my age, and I have been the target of gendered harassment and sexual harassment for as long as I can remember – some of it being explicitly transmisogynistic. I looked exactly like a “little boy” yet one of my uncles joked about me becoming a “transsexual model” when I grew up. I’d love to see the reaction on his face once I come out to him…
I’ll add that one can be a radical feminist without being transmisogynistic. Gender abolitionist radical feminism is only transmisogynistic when it accepts the sex binary (the notion that men and women are different in terms of biology) and when it assumes that trans women have male privilege. It is also, in a strange twist, patriarchal in that it denies the male privilege of trans men.
But trans-friendly radical feminism is certainly possible, and I’m one of those folks. I believe that both gender and sex are socially constructed (or, more specifically, structured through discourse) – a belief that only hurts trans women when it is in conjunction with the idea that trans women are somehow more artificial and more likely to reify patriarchal norms than cis women.
@marinerachel,
I didnt want to comment here again.
But thanks for caring. I know im weak and insecure on the inside but i dont show it out in public. You know how ‘weak’ guys will be treated in college. Im 6 ft tall and have strong facial features with a moderately muscular body and so people are intimidated by me and think of me as some kind of alpha manly man. It has helped me get the girls to jump in bed with me but it also means i cant show weaknesses. So i never really opened up with anyone.
I do have a few female friends whom i talk to but i never really considered them as ‘real’ friends.
I think i will consider therapy but idk if it will help though. I will just have to do it secretly without the guys knowing it or i would instantly become the resident nutjob. I still cant accept that i have a problem since i feel pretty normal when im not drunk though.
Confessing to a girl that i consider her a sex object isnt going to turn on most girls. So i guess that plan wouldnt work.
I really appreciate your comment since i didnt even bother reading the other comments which started off by calling me names. I guess i need to spend some time on myself and get rid of my emotional baggage. I need to move on from her and be normal again. I dont think i can give up the sex though unless its worth its weight in love.
She left a wound that has already made deep scars on my social life. I wont be able to change at the snap of a finger but i will work on it. Im not sure what you mean by misogynistic because i dont trust women but i dont hate them.
Again, thanks for caring. Peace.
Is that your morning height or your evening height?
Mr. Pack,
Thank you for reading my post. I’ll respond in full to yours shortly.
In the meantime, if you’d like to talk more, let me know here and we’ll exchange information to talk elsewhere.
There’s more hope and you’re capable of more than you realise. You’re just downtrodden and, in response to that feel, doing all the wrong things.
:facepalm:
Asixpack, you’re down to -6/10 for the flounce. You might want to try sticking to it.
Plus, you are totes misogynistic. Not trusting ALL women and habitually treating women as objects is classic misogyny. Just like not trusting anyone, and treating everyone as pawns is classically misanthropic.
If you want to change, do it. Quit living in denial. So far, you’ve given zip indication that you’d seriously consider changing, though. I won’t hold my breath.
If you are serious, though, best of luck. Being a decent human being can be hard, but it is ultimately pretty rewarding.
However, from the sounds of it, you might need some new friends. This whole “I can’t show weakness because people will think I’m the campus nut and turn on me, because it would make me not a manly man” is toxic, beyond all reckoning.
It isn’t healthy. At all. If the guys would turn on you for doing something that will save your sanity, then the guys aren’t worth their weight in dog feces.
They need to grow up, too.
Until they do, you’d be a hell of a lot better without them.
Contrapangloss, dont even bother. You’re already a – 10/10 to me.
Katz, I did not know that humans had the inherent ability to change their body height during the mornings and evenings. Apparently my biology teacher skipped those pages.
(Pops back in for a moment)
Didn’t bitter bro claim that he was leaving at least a couple of times already? See, this is why your ex cheated on you, you can’t be trusted to keep your promises.
Oh, for the love of…
Seconding what so many people here have said, Asixpack. Dump your “friends” and go get help for your problems. Do not subscribe to asshole codes that makes you and others miserable. Get. Help. I knew a lot of assholes in my adolescence years and during my time as a young adult. I didn’t hang out with them, because I felt being alone was a better choice than having to conform to toxic ideas about what a man is supposed to be.
I’m sorry you believe in PUA bullshit. I really am. There was a phase in my life where I could have fallen into a similar trap of blaming others for feeling miserable, and where I might have decided to become a crappy human being who takes out their anger and resentment on others. That phase lasted for about ten minutes before I realized: hey, this is actually kinda stupid.
But here’s my advice, as someone who has been in a lonely, self-harming spiral: Stop believing things will get better and that some day you will meet someone (read: a woman) who will ‘fix’ you. That day may never come, Asixpack, because in real life, people have their own problems and won’t dedicate their lives to making sure your feefees are taken care of. That’s not their duty, no matter the cultural narrative of manic pixie dream girls and other supporting characters existing for you, the hero of the story. That’s entitlement, and although part of the blame can be laid on movies and TV shows for promoting the idea of the world owing a happy ending to you, the male protagonist, it’s still your responsibilty to stop believing that narrative. Real life doesn’t work that way.
The world doesn’t owe you happiness, and other people (read: women) are not villains for not doing their utmost to make you feel better. Bad stuff happens, and people hurt each other, but ultimately, you’re responsible for how you react to the bad stuff. If you decide to grow bitter instead of moving on and trying to find a state of mind where you’re happy and where you can meet other people as full human beings instead of means to an end, hey, it’s your life. Just seems like an awful waste.
The universe doesn’t care, but that does not give you a free pass to act like an asshole yourself. You are not a tragic antihero who is owed a happy ending after years of self-loathing and whatever. You’re a crappy human being who needs a reality check, like, right now.
Cassandrakitty, i really dont take your offensive comments seriously but it still hurts to think some people actually think i deserved to get cheated on for loving her too much. I came here to react to marinerachel who seemed really sensible and caring and didnt call me names in his/her posts. I know its hard to feel pity for me and i dont expect you to either. Just leave my ex out of the jokes and insults if you can feel any compassion towards another human being no matter who he is.
Maybe if you want women to show you compassion you should start by showing some to the women who you’re fucking as a way to punish your ex. You can show some for their boyfriends too while you’re at it for bonus points.
Not fun having your own callous attitude reflected back at you, is it? I’m going to keep doing it until the lesson sinks in.
@cassandrakitty, i dont understand whats wrong with me exposing women who cheat on their boyfriends. If it wasnt me, it would have been somebody else. Either way, when a person cheats, its their own fault and not their partners or the one who she/he cheated with. Their partners deserve to know that they have been cheated on.
I cant believe you’re trying to victim-blame here. Women are often told that their spouses cheating on them is their own fault for not pleasing him enough. Are you trying to pull that one on me?
Nobody cheats on someone because the other person loves them too much, Asix. That’s like saying “I’m not eating this cake because it tastes too good”. Everything about your perspective is warped, and your friends aren’t helping. Some people here are kind and patient enough to have given you some good advice – you should really take it.
You’re trying to hurt other people and wreck their relationships so that you can prove to yourself that that’s just how relationships go, so what happened to you was nothing personal. Everyone can see where the urge to do that might come from, but that doesn’t mean that it’s either wise or ethical.
@cassandrakitty,
How can i wreck relationships or force someone to cheat? Its the girl who was ready to cheat with me. A girl who was ready to cheat with me would have cheated with anyone at some point in her life if it wasnt me and would have hurt the guy. I just made it easier for the guy by enlightening him as early as possible. But Thats not to say there haven’t been many women in committed relationships who turned me down, but i just think they werent going to risk cheating with me and getting cauht at that time even though they totally wanted to cheat. I still think cheaters should be exposed, male or female.
Bro, take a deep breath. You’re getting worked up and misunderstanding people and responding to things they haven’t said. You don’t need to be reactionary.
What people are admonishing you for – and rightly so – is harming others. Objectifying women and doing so knowing the harm you’re doing to their relationships and them is not cool. There is no excuse for it. None. It’s abhorrent.
I don’t know why your ex cheated on you. It’s not because you “lov[ed] her too much” though. She chose to cheat on you for her own reasons. Your actions ie: loving her didn’t make her do that so just forget it. It certainly doesn’t make you deserving of it.
Hey, if you want to keep on running on the same hamster wheel you’re on now, I’m not going to stop you. It’s still a shitty thing to do, and not really good for you either.
And with that I’m done. If you need additional therapy you’re going to have to go find a professional.
@marinerachel, i agree that i am in the wrong for objectifying women and using them. I plead guilty to those charges but i just can’t comprehend how the actions of cheating women and the blame of ruining their relationships can be pinned on me alone. Im sorry if i ome off as a bit defensive of my actions but whatever happens in the lives of women who cheats with me is her damn fault too.
Oh, you’re such a hero, Asspack, having casual sex with women you despise in order to enlighten their poor put-upon boyfriends. Must make the boyfriends in quesion so grateful for your selfsacrifice.
And we’re supposed to feel sorry for you because you don’t believe in the humanity of women. Poor little lost boy.
Breaking news: you are not the centre of the universe. You are a pathetic little egotist with all the empathy of a paperclip.
PS Someone .explain poly to this pisspot so we can watch his head explode.
Titanblue, i dont think of myself as a hero or anything of that sort. I understand poly and if it is a mutual decision, then why should he be bothered with me. Im just in it for the ones who are blissfully unaware of what their loving girlfriends are doing in their free time.