Manosphere misogynists like to tell themselves fairy tales about women. Their favorite such tale, repeated endlessly, is one called “The Cock Carousel” – sometimes referred to in expanded form as the “Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel” or the “Bad Boy Cock Carousel.” (Hence that Rooster-riding gal you see in this blog’s header about half the time.)
Despite the different names, the story is always, monotonously, the same: In their late teens and twenties, when they’re at the height of their sexual appeal, women (or at least the overwhelming majority of them) have sex in rapid succession with an assortment of charismatic but unreliable alpha males and “bad boys” who make their vaginas (or just ‘ginas) tingle. Then, sometime in their mid-to-late twenties, these women “hit the wall,” with their so-called sexual market value (or SMV) dropping faster than Facebook’s stock price. As Roissy/Heartiste puts it, in his typically overheated prose:
So sad, so tragic, the inevitable slide into sexual worthlessness that accompanies women, the withering tick tock of the cosmic clock stripping their beauty in flayed bits of soulletting mignons like psychological ling chi. A sadistic thief in the night etching, billowing, draping and sagging a new affront to her most preciously guarded asset.
While many women try to pretend they’ve still “got it,” even at the ripe old age of thirty, they inevitably have to either get off or get thrown off the “cock carousel.” At this point the more savvy women glom onto some convenient “beta male” who, while somewhat lacking in sexual appeal, will at least be a good husband and provider for them – and in many cases the children they’ve had with alpha male seed. Those women who don’t accept the new reality are destined to end up alone and childless, surrounded by cats.
To borrow the phrase South Park used in its episodes about Scientology and Mormonism, this is what manosphere men actually believe. Not only that, but they claim that this fairy tale is based on real science.
So who are these mysterious alpha males that get the women so excited? As one guide to pickup artist (PUA) lingo puts it:
In animal hierarchies, the Alpha Male is the most dominant, and typically the physically strongest member of the group. For example, in wolf packs, the “alpha wolf” is the strongest member of the pack, and is the leader of the group. This position of leadership is often achieved by killing or defeating the previous Alpha Male in combat. Alpha wolves have first access to food as well as mating privileges with the females of the pack.
Social status among human social groups is less rigidly defined than in the animal kingdom, but there are some recognizable parallels. Although people don’t often engage in physical violence to achieve dominance, there are still recognizable leaders in different fields who have wide access to material resources and women.
Because the qualities of the Alpha Male (such as social dominance and leadership) are attractive to women, many PUAs have adopted these ideals as models of emulation. In fact, the term “alpha” has come be shorthand for the qualities of an attractive man, and it is a common refrain among PUAs to be “more alpha” or to “out alpha” competitors.
There’s a certain logic to all this. But unfortunately for the PUAs and other manospherians the notion of the Alpha male is based on bad science. The notion of Alpha dominance, as the definition above notes, came originally from studies of wolf packs. Even if we assume that wolf behavior is somehow a good model upon which to base our understanding of human romance – as manosphere men and evolutionary psychologists tend to do – the science behind the Alpha male wolf has now come completely undone, with many of those who promulgated the theory in the first place decades ago now explicitly repudiating it.
The problem, you see, is that the studies underlying the notion of the alpha male wolf, who aggressively asserts his dominance over beta males in order to rule the pack, were all based on observations of wolves in captivity. In the real world, wolf packs don’t work that way at all. Most wolf packs are basically wolf families, with a breeding pair and their pups. When male pups reach adulthood, they don’t fight their fathers for dominance — they go out and start their own families.
As noted wolf behavior expert L. David Mech, one of those who helped to establish and popularize the notion of the alpha wolf in the first place, explains on his website:
The concept of the alpha wolf is well ingrained in the popular wolf literature at least partly because of my book “The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species,” written in 1968, published in 1970, republished in paperback in 1981, and currently still in print, despite my numerous pleas to the publisher to stop publishing it. Although most of the book’s info is still accurate, much is outdated. We have learned more about wolves in the last 40 years then in all of previous history.
One of the outdated pieces of information is the concept of the alpha wolf. “Alpha” implies competing with others and becoming top dog by winning a contest or battle. However, most wolves who lead packs achieved their position simply by mating and producing pups, which then became their pack. In other words they are merely breeders, or parents, and that’s all we call them today, the “breeding male,” “breeding female,” or “male parent,” “female parent,” or the “adult male” or “adult female.” In the rare packs that include more than one breeding animal, the “dominant breeder” can be called that, and any breeding daughter can be called a “subordinate breeder.”
So the dominant male wolves – those whom manosphere dudes would still call the alphas – achieve this position not by being sexy badasses but simply by siring and taking responsibility for pups. To use the terminology in the manner of manosphere dudes, alphas become alphas by acting like betas. That’s right: alphas are betas. (For more of the details, see this paper by Mech; it’s in pdf form.)
Also, they’re wolves and not humans, but that’s a whole other kettle of anthropomorphized fish.
No… Eutosabra would never gaslight them in a way which was destructive… having someone tell you that what you remember being said/done didn’t happen is totes benign.
Wild Horses: The leader of the herd is the Alpha Mare. The Stallion keeps a harem, but if the Alpha Mare decides he’s gone, then he’s gone. The young studs will leave, and they will attract mare who join them (some of them in the hope they will become the Alpha Mare of the new herd).
So no, they are so not what the PUA want to use as an example.
A FASCIST Zionist PUA. And you’d think that would be good for some laughs, but then you realize he spends his time here alternating between bragging about all the women he’s manipulated and lying about manipulating all the women he’s manipulated, and the whole thing is just a giant creepy skeezy mess.
I don’t know that he’s a full-fledged fascist, actually.
I haven’t paid that much attention to him, but I think he’s actually less fascist than the U.S. Government has been in recent years.
Of course, maybe he’s said he’s a fascist, in which case I can only assume that he’s for the primacy of the military and the intermingling of church and state, in direct contravention of things he’s said in this very thread, or he’s a tosser who’s only claiming to be fascist to get a rise out of people.
I’m not saying he can’t be a Zionist asshole to Palestinians, mind.
If it’s defined that way, of course it’s useless. But who defines it that way?
In a sentence, alpha/beta is active/passive or dominant/submissive combined with confident/unconfident. If you want more than a sentence, go here and then read Prometheus Rising.
It is entirely possible to get action without taking initiative or having much confidence, but at least from what I’ve seen, that relies heavily on establishing semi-serious relationships with people who do take initiative, and people who take more initiative are less likely to sustain healthy relationships of that sort, at least until they age out of the PUAs’ target demographic.
It is bordering on the tautological that people who are more confident will get more action: confidence implies a higher number of approaches and a performance of higher value. But I think PUAs have nuance to the terms that I’m missing; I know they have something called “beta game”, at least, and my impression is that this revolves around acting in a manner as to indicate less of a status difference between you and whoever you’re after.
I doubt anyone would seriously argue that people hitting bars for one-night stands have more/better sex than people in healthy relationships (see: Tucker Max) but that’s a higher-risk strategy, and most PUAs, in addition to preferring a higher degree of freedom (which explains the emphasis on travel) are highly risk-averse. This comes with the territory: the people who get drawn into it are the ones who have dismal success rates, and the main way to have a dismal success rate is to avoid social interaction for fear of rejection.
Correct.
It’s Eurosabra who is the fascist zionist PUA right, cause I was under the impression that he was a Randroid.
Eurosabra is the fascist PUA.
No, not at all. Just a little mild gaslighting. No harm in that, is there, you shithead?
Every self-defined beta, ever, that’s who. The idea starts from the premise of “alphas get more action than betas,” and exists solely as an exercise in justifying that premise.
Is there some kind of universal argument that I can use to shut down the whole Alpha vs. Beta thing in every day conversation. At this point I’m really just kind of getting sick of it.
… no it isn’t. There’s a difference between something being obviously true and something being tautologically true.
Sadly aworldanon, I don’t think there’s any argument whatsoever that will shut down a serious alpha/beta theory adherent. They’re quite zealous in their beliefs.
Low hanging fruit.
No, the local left here calls me a fascist. I am actually against state corporatism as it exists in Israel, state religious militarism doesn’t work in an army with Christian and Muslim and Druze Israelis in it, and the whole place still has rule of law, free press and representative govt. I was looking for European allies on the right like Tory and Gaullists, what I got, and rejected, was Forza Italia and EDL.
@Dracula
Stupid youtube not letting me copy the ironic quotes associated with horrid actions by gamers in one of the greatest RPGs ever at the right time in the video.
Ergo 90% of women sleep with 10% of men and the rest are incels. Sounds legit.
A model of consciousness developed by a bunch of non-scientists and woo-meisters? I know I certainly imbibed enough bullshit today!
I meant to say “certainly haven’t” but that only makes it a sarcastic statement rather than a true one.
Why can’t I be the version of me from four years from now, I’d be so much better equipped to say things here.
I like my coffee strong, preferably very large, and not too sweet. This is almost the exact opposite of how I like my men. If I liked my coffee like I like my men I’d actually drink those Starbucks drinks that are basically coffee-flavored milkshakes.
I also like tea, especially oolong (Iron Goddess is my favorite), Ceylon, Lapsang Souchong, Russian Caravan, Rose Congou, Yunnan, Keemun, Aracha, Gunpowder, Sencha (preferably from Shizuoka), Gyokuro, Fukamushicha, Kukicha, Mecha, Genmaicha, and Hojicha, If I was a man this love of variety would probably indicate alpha status, but in a woman I guess it makes me flighty and slutty according to PUA theory.
Also, I see the Eurosabra has decided to slime all over this thread. Isn’t there some sort of Raid that can be used to clear out a PUA infestation?
There’s such thing as Mecha tea? I have to find this now, and see if it tastes like being on Gundam. Even if it doesn’t, I’m going to get a ton of it, and drink it whenever I watch Gundam, or GaoGaiGar, or play Armored Core, or anything with giant anthropomorphic piloted robots.
There is indeed a tea called Mecha. It’s rather tasty – if there’s a good Japanese grocery store near you they might have it, if not the Ito En website sells it. It’s a by-product from the production of the fancier teas, so it’s not very expensive.
I’ll have to buy some when I can afford it, still working on saving up for a Sci-Fi convention in October.
Hey, that’s why you’re going to college. I should hope most of us are smarter, more eloquent, and better people than we were 4 years ago (I know I am).
So Eurosabra is a something or other?
I saw a NatGeo documentary on the group (for some reason I wanna say baboon???) and not only did they flourish, but when aggressive “alpha” male types joined the group, they were socially ostracized until they calmed the fuck down (and turned into whiteknight feminist mangina baby monkeys).
Because, go figure, AGGRESSION IS SOCIALIZED.